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I original started a thread in the brake/wheel section because I jumped the gun and just thought I had a wheel bearing issue. After the advice of many, I quickly found how it was very doubtful to be the bearing. I learned a lot about that process and since my brake rotor was pretty worn, went ahead and just replaced the rotor and bearings.
I wanted to start a new thread to have a clean slate on the next steps I had to take for my Oldsmobile. I still have wheel wobble and when I drive the car, especially on more lumpy roads, it is a little more difficult to control. I tried using a small pry bar at the components to find the play, but couldn't seem to get much information (maybe did this wrong?). From previous videos I've posted, I got a lot of recommendations about the center link needing replacement along with the idle arms.
I took another video of my car slightly jacked on the drivers side suspension and my wife jamming to the AM station and turning the wheel back and forth to publish more information about what is going on with my car. Sorry for the poor light and shakiness. Below are the links
I'd still like to try to tackle this on my own if its not to far fetched for an amateur car hobbyist / mechanic. ?As of now, my parts list is:
1) Center Line -
I definitely see the pitman arm-to-centerlink connection looking very bad (which is to say that the centerlink needs replacing), and I think I see the Left inner tie rod end looking a bit loose.
It's really hard to say much about the others.
I hate to say this, but if the steering were oscillated with a period of about a quarter to half a second, instead of the roughly 2 seconds you were doing, it would be much easier for you and us to see.
Also, you've got to hold the camera dead steady on each joint for at least a few cycles - it's very hard to see occasional relative movement while the camera is moving as well.
Finally, you didn't seem to be feeling the joints - you should do that because it is a good way to sense slight relative movement that's hard to see.
Lifting one wheel puts the steering in a bit of a bind and masks the loose parts. From your other post we clearly can see that the center link, the idler arm, and the inner tie rods had play in the joints. Since your probably going to keep this one a while, I would just replace all of it, tie rods are not expensive. You also need to check your ball joints and control arm bushings. When you replace the tie rods, take them off as a unit and measure center to center. Then assemble the new ones the same length. This way the car is drivable and you can get the car to an alignment shop without wearing out your tires.
Replacing these parts is not hard, just time consuming.
I have to agree with Eric, I would replace all the components. However if your on a budget I would change the centre link along with the idler arm to begin. The pickle fork that Kenneth posted will help with the BFH that Eric posted. Other than that as others mentioned its very difficult to pinpoint the exact components needing replacement. Pull up and down on the tie rods will give you some kind of indication on the play.
Depending on the climate your live in, you can shoot a few shots of grease in each component. Wipe of the black grease off of each boot and around the area prior to shooting the grease in.
If you see the old grease come out a little lite brownish , this means ther is condensation inside the component which = play.
I have bits and pieces of the CMS for 72 on PDF, but unfortunately not the suspension section. Is there a trick to getting off the two bolts holding on the idler arm? I see how they are connected to the frame, but the only access point to the bolts are through the 3 holes on the outside. Is having a socket extension to hold the inner frame bolts while I turn the outer idler arm bolts the correct way? I'm fairly nimble and this is going to be a challenge.
I believe those two bolts are splined and don't turn when you remove the nuts.
- Eric
You believe incorrectly. The bolts are not splined and you do need a socket and extension through the clearance holes in the frame. Have one of those telescoping magnets handy, because at least one of the bolts and possibly the socket will fall into the frame at least once.
The only bolts on the chassis that are splined into place are the ones holding the upper control arm shaft, to facilitate front end alignments.
By the way, a couple of lessons-learned on those idler arm bolts. When removing them, use a deep socket. When you get the nut off, push the bolt as far into the deep socket as possible. Use a rod or something similar to continue pushing the bolt/socket/extension until the bolt is clear of the idler arm. This prevents friction from pulling the bolt out of the socket as you extract the socket from the frame. Fail to do this and the bolt WILL fall into the frame rail. Do NOT ask me how I know this...
When reassembling, use a normal socket and wedge the bolt head into the socket. I use a piece of a plastic grocery bag as a shim around the bolt head before pushing it into the socket. This provides just enough friction to hold the bolt while still allowing you to extract the socket after tightening the nut.
Or because people don't have plastic grocery bags on hand since we now supply our own green bags, you could spread some of that old black bearing grease inside the socket and on the wrench to hold the nut in place and the suction of the grease will make it a little easier.
Last edited by 76olds; February 11th, 2017 at 04:10 PM.
Reason: green bags
Ok... right, they are not splined, the nuts should be lock nuts. There are special thick washers on the bolt inside the frame. They are like steering box washers. THOSE (and the bolts) are what you have to worry about falling in the frame. Like Joe said, you need an extension. Pushing them through and the bag are good advice. Personally, I would use a regular socket, because I'd be more worried about the special washers rolling in the frame, than the bolt. Using a regular socket the bolt could only go in the socket so far and would hold the washer on.
I haven't had much time to work on the car due to unforeseen events, but wanted to at least provide an update. I ordered and received a new center link and idler arm. I had a little time to at least try to get all the castlenuts and idler arm bolts looks and ready for replacement. Most didn't take much time but the top idler arm nut is being stubborn. Gave it a couple shots of WD40. I'll definitely jam something in the frame to catch idler arm bolts when I get to that. Hopefully this weekend.
Knock the tie rod ends out of the center link first, then knock the center link connection at the pitman arm, and then unbolt the idler from the frame. If you don't do it in this order you will have great pain in getting it all apart.
Knock the tie rod ends out of the center link first, then knock the center link connection at the pitman arm, and then unbolt the idler from the frame. If you don't do it in this order you will have great pain in getting it all apart.
This is good advice Eric. I'm going through a full front-end replacement at the moment myself and I figured out this sequence as well. My idler arm is in OK shape but I figure MAW replace it as long as I needed to remove it to get everything out. Good luck Joffroi!
Last edited by dalilama; February 16th, 2017 at 08:19 AM.
Reason: Grammar
I wish I had a more exciting update, but apparently my strength is causing much embarrassment (or I'm just dumb). I can't get the tie rods separated from the center link. I've beat on it and can't seem to make it budge at all. Went to the store and got a pickle fork to jam in between the center link and tie rod and still can't seem to make any progress. I have an uncle in the area that is experienced with this I'm going to try to see if he can come one day (he has built a few hot rods). Although that $300ish quote to replace all that at a garage is starting to sound decent to me, he says we should definitely be able to tackle this.
I can't get the tie rods separated from the center link.
Here's a hint. Be sure the steering is all the way to the stop and hammer parallel to the center link. Any motion or flexibility when hammering absorbs the blows of the hammer without forcing the pickle fork in. Alternately, get one of these. I've been using this lately and it's MUCH easier.
I also went with the Moog center link. It's on my bench now and it comparing it to what I removed it's way tighter at the end links. So were all the tie rod ends. If you have never replaced these I'm willing to bet they are loose as well and if it's in your budget for another $120 or so you could replace replace them with Moog parts.
I also went with the Moog center link. It's on my bench now and it comparing it to what I removed it's way tighter at the end links. So were all the tie rod ends. If you have never replaced these I'm willing to bet they are loose as well and if it's in your budget for another $120 or so you could replace replace them with Moog parts.
Just sayin'
What was the part number for the Moog centerlink you used?
I finally had time to sync with a friend of mine that had a little more experienced and offered to help out. We were able to replace the center link and idler arm. It took us about 2 hours and the following took is what really helped us get the center link free. After that is was just elbow grease getting the rest of the bolts off. The new pieces fit great. Took it for a test look around the block and it drove must better. I image after an alignment it will improve even more. Thanks for all the suggestions on diagnosing the problem.
February 8th, 2017, 06:25 PM
