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People have accomplished the same with individual parts probably for less. I don't think that's the right kit for your car looking at the application list.
Care to elaborate? An A-body is an A-body right? Or did the 442 have other suspension parts that would be required for the kit to work on a Cutlass Supreme. I’d love to accomplish the same thing for less. I do like the idea of the variable damping springs. Wonder who would be a good source for those by themselves.
Anyway, the suspension on my car was junk when it rolled off the assembly line. Now it’s 52 year old junk with 98,000 miles on it. Downright dangerous and must be addressed this year.
You can get equivalent parts for a lot less than that. I redid the front end on my car with Moog ball joints, bushings, end links, springs, center link, tie rod ends, Monroe shocks (you could substitute Bilsteins or similar), etc. and didn't spend anywhere near that.
Last edited by Fun71; April 1st, 2019 at 07:15 PM.
RetroRanger, I picked up that damping term by reading tooo many suspension articles and websites.
Damping, in physics, restraining of vibratorymotion, such as mechanical oscillations, noise, and alternating electric currents, by dissipation of energy. Unless a child keeps pumping a swing, its motion dies down because of damping. Shock absorbers in automobiles and carpet pads are examples of damping devices.
And to the others, if I can get similar results for less money I’m all for it. I know Ridetech is a hyped up marketing machine, but there is some value to getting it right the first time. So I was merely looking to see if anybody had actually popped for the system and did they like it.
David,
Also check out Rock Auto. I bought everything for my '68 4-4-2 except springs at RA, using one of the ubiquitous 5% online discount codes (found on this site). I bought my parts about three years ago.
The springs, I got from Eaton Detroit Spring, again online. EDS has (had?) a fantastic chart to get OEM replacements or just any variety of something different you can think of, for both front and rear. You used to be able to get them long/tall, short, different rates, variable rates, etc.
But I just checked the site; and unfortunately it looks like they now have a significant up-charge for different lengths, and I no longer see the variable rate versions. : There is a link to request a quote via email, but if you are still entertaining this route, you may want to call them.
Good Luck! Let us know how you go.
Rich
Last edited by BackInTheGame; April 2nd, 2019 at 03:52 AM.
Reason: add text for clarity, and LINK
These aren't stock replacement parts or even close to equivalents. If you buy individual parts, Delrin bushings (del-a-lum brand) for the control arms are around $250 to do the front suspension. Good springs are $400/set. The Ridetech shocks are good pieces from what I've heard, are rebound adjustable, and run $185/each. The tall ball joints are $80/each. Then swaybars are a few hundred bucks at each end.
If you want to kick up your handling a notch above stock, with a revised front roll center, smoother suspension travel, and less body roll, this will do it. It's obviously more pricey than stock replacement stuff... I've ran similar combos that I've pieced together (before this kit was available) and it made for a nice touring car.
What are you trying to accomplish with the car? Are you trying to lower it and go for better handling than stock or just stock replacement?
If you want to upgrade the stock suspension to something better, there are plenty of aftermarket kits and parts out there.
On my Cutlass I have a mix of different parts from QA1, Hotchkiss and UMI, it handles very well and it's very comfortable.
On my Chevelle I have complete UMI suspension with QA1 Coilovers. Car handles like it's on rails and it's not too stiff.
Both cars are night and day difference from stock. They both feel and handle like a newer car.
UMI has amazing customer service as well. they actually pick up the phone and answer any questions one might have. Made in USA.
Yes, 70Cutty hit the nail on the head! My bad. I should have been more clear in the first post. I want to restomod the suspension a bit. I read the Savitske book on the A-body suspension. Now simply trying to choose a path and move forward. Want to greatly improve handling, but DO NOT want it too stiff. It’s a cruiser first and foremost. Want more confidence on the road. Even if I upgrade the power train later on, it’ll never see a track. I drive the car a lot during the warm season. This car is for driving and enjoying. I’m sure just new stock parts would be noticeably better, but why not take it a little further? Lastly, I’d really like to get a little more upward rake from front to back. A little more athletic stance. Not too much. Just some.
Yes, 70Cutty hit the nail on the head! My bad. I should have been more clear in the first post. I want to restomod the suspension a bit. I read the Savitske book on the A-body suspension. Now simply trying to choose a path and move forward. Want to greatly improve handling, but DO NOT want it too stiff. It’s a cruiser first and foremost. Want more confidence on the road. Even if I upgrade the power train later on, it’ll never see a track. I drive the car a lot during the warm season. This car is for driving and enjoying. I’m sure just new stock parts would be noticeably better, but why not take it a little further? Lastly, I’d really like to get a little more upward rake from front to back. A little more athletic stance. Not too much. Just some.
Take a look at their website and/or give them a call. Also you can go on Team Chevelle http://www.chevelles.com and read the feedback from Chevelle owners on the setups they run. Plenty more information there as this forum (as great as it is) is mostly oriented towards stock cars.
You will also find UMI techs there answering any question related to suspension, whether it's UMI or not.
Like I said I am very happy with my UMI setup. Car handles extremely well and it's very comfortable, height and dampening are adjustable through QA1 coilovers. At first I had BMR 2" drop springs with KYB shocks. That was very stiff and car would bottom out on the rear if kids were in the back. Then I switched to UMI 2" drop springs with Bilstein shocks, that resulted in much more comfortable ride and no more bottoming out. BMR springs are progressive vs UMI that are linear rate and KYB must be the most uncomfortable shock on the market. I find that even Monroe socks are much more comfortable.
Recently I upgraded to QA1 coilovers. On the street there is no difference in ride comfort between coilovers and UMI drop springs, however on the auto cross track adjustability comes in handy.
My front upper control arm has taller ball joint to help with camber. I choose regular poly bushings instead of Delrin cause I was afraid it might be too stiff and uncomfortable with Delrin. The only place where I kept the rubber bushing is the rear axle.
You guys are all certifiably awesome with great taste in automobiles. 😁.
Dont know why, but I havent called anyone like UMI yet. Maybe I just figured they would all blow smoke up my tailpipe. I’ve gotten a lot of inspiration from Chevelle pics and resources too. Last thing....70Cutty mentioned Delrin. Just the other day I read that Delrin was supposed to be the best of both worlds. Better performance than rubber and NOT as stiff as Poly. So this is not the case?
You guys are all certifiably awesome with great taste in automobiles. 😁.
Dont know why, but I havent called anyone like UMI yet. Maybe I just figured they would all blow smoke up my tailpipe. I’ve gotten a lot of inspiration from Chevelle pics and resources too. Last thing....70Cutty mentioned Delrin. Just the other day I read that Delrin was supposed to be the best of both worlds. Better performance than rubber and NOT as stiff as Poly. So this is not the case?
Better performance YES, not as stiff as poly NO.
Delrin bushings are harder than Poly. IMO they are more for hard core racing as they are step below full on aluminum bushings.
When I was building my RX7 for (auto cross) track, a good friend advised me not to use Delrin and stick with poly. According to him Delrin has almost 0 give, so when used on control arms it could make the ride harsh and uncomfortable. Given that he works for a well known Porsche racing team that has cars in GTS class and used to race 24hr Lemans, I'd like to think he knows a thing or two about suspension.
Thought I should chime in here as well. I, too, have a lot of UMI equipment on my 71 Cutlass. Currently have 2" drop springs with stock lower front arms with new moog bushings and ball joints. Front uppers are UMI with .5" taller ball joints and poly bushings. Running UMI front and rear sway bars with poly bushings. Rear consists of UMI adjustable upper control arms with roto-joints in the front and poly bushings on rear ears. Lowers are poly/roto joint also, and i used the rear control arm relocation brackets to gain back a more reasonable IC after lowering. Currently running 10 year old Monroe shocks and am looking for the best replacement now. Car rides firm but very stable right now. Much of the firmness comes from the 18" wheels i have. I have to agree Ramey over at UMI is very knowledgeable and will help you with your needs.
Last edited by ach1992880; April 3rd, 2019 at 06:34 PM.
A long overdue update. Stuff always comes up to slow things down, but I’m back at it now and it’s up on jack stands. The delay wasn’t a bad thing. It gave me time to think through it in terms of priorities. When I acquired the car 4 years ago, I was all hyper about resto-modding. This car is a cruiser, plain and simple. I want to keep the ride plenty pleasant, but add in select upgrades.
Bushings and body mounts will all stay rubber and mostly MOOG.
Will add a beefier front sway bar and might use poly end links like Proforged. There’s the one poly exception. Thinking hollow bar to drop weight.
Steering box and pump have been removed. Either existing box gets converted to 12.7 to 1 OR if I need to trim the budget, then maybe the 96 Jeep Grand Cherokee route.
Front end rebuild with 1/2” Taller upper ball joints
Springs…..Either Moog with the inevitable trial and error with spacers or bags to get it “just right”. Or the premium Eaton route, in which case I might order 1” lowered all the way around. It was estimated by a suspension specialist to be currently sagging 1.5 to 2”.
Shocks…maybe just start with Monroe.
Wheels…. Currently running 14x6 SSI’s with 225/70/14. The SSI’s were not original to the car, but they are not repop’s. They were picked up out of the newspaper classifieds in the mid 1980’s. If I go bigger (I’d really like wider tires for a more muscular look), then I think 16” would be the max. Probably 15’s.
Tires get too bumpy with too low of a profile.
Ride height with 54 year old suspension. Rear height is deceptive due to the sloping driveway. Old spring and broken Edelbrock shock.
On my car I put moog springs all the way around. Moog ball joints, rubber front a arm bushings and sway bar links. I managed to get Proforged drag link, idler arm, and tie rod ends for free if I used my car to test the parts, they work well. Used rubber body mounts with a kit through yearone. The upper and lower rear control arms are UMI with poly bushings and their sway bar. Rear shocks are KYB gas adjust.
another vote for mostly Moog - springs, ball joints, idler, tie rod parts, c/a bushings and center link - for front sway bar bushings and end links I'd go with Energy Suspension (poly bushings on grade-8 bolts). for rear control arms, UMI performance makes a great set of tubular arms that bolt right in place - I have them tied into the rear sway bar on my '72. For shocks, might want to look at the Koni Street series (the orange set) before settling for Monroe or similar level replacements. They provide a good ride quality with very mild firmness - much better I think than the typical retail Gabriel, Monroe, etc. level options - having used KYB and Bilsteins in the past on my '72, I prefer the Koni - still sporty but friendlier on the butt over rougher roads.
for p/s parts, many options to go with both new and rebuilt, with or without firm feel and with or without fast ratio - CPP and Lee both make all new direct-fit boxes set up typically with a mild fast ratio (i.e.12.7:1) equating to approximately 3 to 3.25 turns L to L and they are both street-friendly firm-feel varieties set up for standard thread hoses. Steer & Gear (and other similar rebuilders) can also refurbish a stock box to your liking with similar options as above, also in keeping with standard thread hose fittings. Plenty of options for pumps as well depending on what you want - stock or higher GPM flow (which generally works better with a firm feel box), etc. - options are easy enough to web research and performance pump prices aren't really much more than the better stock parts.
Last edited by 70sgeek; November 3rd, 2021 at 01:27 PM.
You guys gave me more stuff to think about, while I’m sealing up the underneath. I’ll be looking into your suggestions. And likely have a lot of questions…..
Boy, trying to pull the trigger on a suspension setup is tough. Everything affects everything. It’s like trying to step off the high platform at the swimming pool for the first time. 😱
70’s Geek got me thinking about the shocks. About 17 years ago, this bone stock suspension car got some Edelbrock IAS shocks (think they were made by Fox). Don’t recall what they replaced, but I’m guessing the Sears twin tube variety. WOW! That one thing made a HUGE difference. If they still made them, then thats what I’d stay with. But certainly the Edelbrocks were more of a performance shock, weren’t they? I read about the Koni 🍊 and they sound like what I’m looking for. Only thing I’m not big on is the 🍊 color. I would even consider popping for adjustable shocks as long as they don’t ride harsh.
If I go factory ride height, then I’ll absolutely have to ditch the 14x6 SSI’s. Although the current stance is sagging pretty low, the wheels currently fill up the wheel well just about right. Those 14x6 SSI’s are a pain in the *** anyway. You can’t get fat enough rubber on them to look proportional to the massive hulk of sheet metal looming overhead.
Several vendors claim that the 8040-1087 Konis fit 64-77 A-body cars. The OEM shocks for these cars all had about a 4.92" stroke length. The early cars used shocks with longer compressed and extended lengths (9.65" and 14.57", respectively). The later cars used 8.66" and 13.58", respectively. In both cases, the required stroke is less than the available stroke. So long as the shock doesn't bottom out, you'll be fine. Koni helpfully doesn't provide these dimensions anywhere that I can find. The reality is that the 64-67 cars used the same front suspension as the 68-72 cars. The actual shock lengths depend on installed spring height more than anything else.
Mr. Padavano…..I tried hard to find those Koni specs, but you’re right, it is just a black hole out there. If the suspensions are the same, it really makes one wonder why GM used a shorter shock design from 68 on.
And Oldcutlass, I took your advice and checked the Chevelle….Koni lists nothing for them prior to 68 either.
Mr. Padavano…..I tried hard to find those Koni specs, but you’re right, it is just a black hole out there. If the suspensions are the same, it really makes one wonder why GM used a shorter shock design from 68 on.
Well, the upper and lower control arms interchange from 64-72, as do the spindles. Ride height would be the only difference.
As a rule, I don’t get in to bets with guys named Padavano. I’m sure that’s what those are. Those red classics would look sweet under there. Sexy little devils. If Detroit Speed says they work for that year range…then I believe them. Which should mean that the orange STR.T equivalents, 8050 1046, would work fine too.
Shock selection is all about the correct mounting ends and the extended and retracted length. Measure your current shocks and compare them to the new ones you are purchasing.
You’re right. I’m relying on fitment guides too much.
So….I went out to measure the one off the vehicle. That turned into an adventure of its own. No way I can retract that thing and measure. Shoulda done some measuring with car at ride height. Oops. All I know is it’s 20” long between mounting points center to center. The shaft is 6 3/4” long. Nor do I really even know if the one I’m measuring was right for the car to begin with.
Which means, back to the fitment guides and don’t get too hung up on Koni.
Last edited by Rocket Fire V8; December 12th, 2021 at 10:51 AM.
April 1st, 2019, 05:27 PM
But I just checked the site; and unfortunately it looks like they now have a significant up-charge for different lengths, and I no longer see the variable rate versions. :
