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The man just wants this job to be over, lol. I normally enjoy working on my ride, as do we all, but this one is getting to me. But I'm making progress and that's what matters. I'm pushing but trying not to rush. It needs to be done right, yeah?
I see the LCA bolts are in with the nuts facing to the rear of the car. Were the bolts too long to put in the other way as you had asked about?
Yeah Kenneth, you were correct. I couldn't get the back bolt to clear the frame.
This morning I headed out to the shop for a full, possibly 10 hour day of progress but I've put my friggin' back out. So it's off to the chiropractor for me. I'll see if I can work after that. Sigh...
Oh, and wire brushing small parts. So much wire brushing! Lol.
Holy smokes, I'm right there with 'ya!
In addition, I might actually run out of anti-seize--using some on nearly every bolt I've removed, wire-brushed and reinstalled. Heck, I'll likely be the one taking it apart again someday, might as well do myself the favor now!
But, following your progress closely...I have the same plan (new springs, going tubular arms, immediately swapping in better ball joints, etc.). Thanks for sharing your journey!
Yeah Kenneth, you were correct. I couldn't get the back bolt to clear the frame.
This morning I headed out to the shop for a full, possibly 10 hour day of progress but I've put my friggin' back out. So it's off to the chiropractor for me. I'll see if I can work after that. Sigh...
In all seriousness, back problems are no joke. I wish you a speedy recovery so you can get back to turning those wrenches!
In addition, I might actually run out of anti-seize--using some on nearly every bolt I've removed, wire-brushed and reinstalled. Heck, I'll likely be the one taking it apart again someday, might as well do myself the favor now!
But, following your progress closely...I have the same plan (new springs, going tubular arms, immediately swapping in better ball joints, etc.). Thanks for sharing your journey!
Be aware, the shop I took my arms to had a lot of trouble pressing out the lower (el cheapo) ball joints. They said they saw evidence of either locktite or epoxy. They eventually got them out but it wasn't cheap. These eBay arms are heavy and solid and well made but the joints are complete crap. They should just leave them out and let the buyer decide what they want in there.
Originally Posted by 72455
In all seriousness, back problems are no joke. I wish you a speedy recovery so you can get back to turning those wrenches!
This is killing me! I don't sit still very well. I've tried going out to the shop a couple times but quickly regretted it, lol. My left S.I. joint is locked up and I can't bend at all. I wonder if I can replace it with a Moog joint, LOL!
Be aware, the shop I took my arms to had a lot of trouble pressing out the lower (el cheapo) ball joints. They said they saw evidence of either locktite or epoxy. They eventually got them out but it wasn't cheap. These eBay arms are heavy and solid and well made but the joints are complete crap. They should just leave them out and let the buyer decide what they want in there.
This is killing me! I don't sit still very well. I've tried going out to the shop a couple times but quickly regretted it, lol. My left S.I. joint is locked up and I can't bend at all. I wonder if I can replace it with a Moog joint, LOL!
Best advice from experience, don't sit around and stay mobile...
Be aware, the shop I took my arms to had a lot of trouble pressing out the lower (el cheapo) ball joints. They said they saw evidence of either locktite or epoxy. They eventually got them out but it wasn't cheap. These eBay arms are heavy and solid and well made but the joints are complete crap. They should just leave them out and let the buyer decide what they want in there.
This is killing me! I don't sit still very well. I've tried going out to the shop a couple times but quickly regretted it, lol. My left S.I. joint is locked up and I can't bend at all. I wonder if I can replace it with a Moog joint, LOL!
I found a lower control arm (original style) for my set up - took me a bit to find one with out the bushings and ball joints installed - got lucky and saved $70 - and don’t have to press them out - hope your back gives you some relief soon - good luck!
I found a lower control arm (original style) for my set up - took me a bit to find one with out the bushings and ball joints installed - got lucky and saved $70 - and don’t have to press them out - hope your back gives you some relief soon - good luck!
I was going to offer you one of mine but I need to make sure the tubulars are going to work and that will take some time. Especially now that I can't get out there to work on it for a few days. I'm glad you found one, though.
I'm going back on NSAIDS for a few days. They cause me other problems but it's all a balancing act. And I'm trying steroid injections a week from today. Fingers crossed.
Okay fellas, I hit a wall today. A friend came over to help me get the springs in. It took us a while to figure out how to get it done but we got there. We had a spring in, clocked just right in the LCA pad and upper pocket, and had the jack under the LCA. Started jacking it up when the car came off the jack stand and we were still almost two inches shy of getting the ball joints bolted up. Jacked it some more but the car just kept going higher.
I think maybe Kenneth was right, these aren't the right springs. They're the same length as stock, have the same number of coils, but the bar is quite a bit thicker. These things are way too stiff, if you ask me, but I want to know what you guys think. Am I missing something here? CopperCutlass is using the same arms with stock drum brakes and spindles. He has taller upper ball joints but they're only .090 taller. The upper tubular control arms don't have as much downward sweep as stock but I think the lowers have more upper sweep; it's hard to tell for sure.
My plan going forward is to rehab the old stock springs and see if they are soft enough. When I had the front shocks out, the springs didn't sag at all. Or is there a problem I'm not seeing?
Well, you could use a ratchet strap to pull the LCA up and compress the spring enough to get the ball joint in.
These are the same springs you took out? How was the front end height with them? And how was the ride quality?
Well, you could use a ratchet strap to pull the LCA up and compress the spring enough to get the ball joint in.
These are the same springs you took out? How was the front end height with them? And how was the ride quality?
We had the compressor in the spring so could have compressed it more and gotten it bolted up but wouldn't that make the ride hard as a rock?
Your going to have to compress the spring a bit to get the upper ball joint in if the jack is lifting the car. Are you sure those control arms are compatible with drum brakes?
Your going to have to compress the spring a bit to get the upper ball joint in if the jack is lifting the car. Are you sure those control arms are compatible with drum brakes?
Actually I don't think these arms are compatible with anything. They've been a real pain. But I talked with CopperCutlass tonight and he has the same arms. Others that purchased eBay tubulars got a different design, one that has more of a downward sweep on the upper arm, like the stockers. I'm going to have to purchase tall ball joints for the upper arms and use springs that aren't quite as stiff; probably the originals.
Eric, the drums aren't ideal with these arms but they do fit with the backing plate mods. Copper is using the same arms with his stock drums and spindles. But I'll be looking into a disc swap soon. Soon-ish.
I thought about replacing my uppers with the arms others are using with the downward sweep, like in this picture, but.....
...this morning I was looking around for a higher quality upper arm set, UMI, Classic Performance, BMR, etc. and what I discovered is, if their pictures are representative, most, if not all the arms are the flatter design such as mine. And most recommend a 0.90 inch taller upper ball joint.
So the long and the short of it is; I don't want to have at that upper bolts again and deal with trying to sell these upper arms so I'm ordering the taller ball joints and using my original springs (if they are, indeed, original) which didn't sag even a little when I had the front shocks out (I measured).
If this is a mistake I'll be sure to post that here as well.
After looking at the picture on my PC vs the phone. It looks like the upper arm is bottoming out even with weight on the lowers arms. I'm afraid that the arms will contact the frame if your going over severe dips with your new springs, don't know how it will look with the old springs. THe arms with the downward swoop may be more forgiving, albeit the additional expense.
I have been looking at A arm swaps for a while and with some you have to use the b body tall spindels, check where you bought these if as this might be the answer, Tim
After looking at the picture on my PC vs the phone. It looks like the upper arm is bottoming out even with weight on the lowers arms. I'm afraid that the arms will contact the frame if your going over severe dips with your new springs, don't know how it will look with the old springs. THe arms with the downward swoop may be more forgiving, albeit the additional expense.
Yes, that is a concern. I have the tall ball joints coming and I'll see how everything looks with the old springs. If I can find the swooping arms, just the uppers, the cost won't be prohibitive. It's getting those diver's side bolts out again that would worry me.
Originally Posted by green1972
I have been looking at A arm swaps for a while and with some you have to use the b body tall spindels, check where you bought these if as this might be the answer, Tim
Are you talking about disc or drum brakes? Right now I have drum but will be going to discs.
using my original springs (if they are, indeed, original) which didn't sag even a little when I had the front shocks out (I measured).
The suspension height should not change with the shocks out. The springs set the height and the shocks just dampen the oscillations to provide a smooth ride.
The suspension height should not change with the shocks out. The springs set the height and the shocks just dampen the oscillations to provide a smooth ride.
Exactly. That was my point. When I removed the rear shocks the bumper almost hit the ground The shocks had, I think what they call, helper springs.
the piece the upper and lower ball joints attach to , its longer on a b body, with certain upper and lower control arms you must use the b body spindle, doesnt matter what brake type
the piece the upper and lower ball joints attach to , its longer on a b body, with certain upper and lower control arms you must use the b body spindle, doesnt matter what brake type
Ahh, gotcha'. Like I said, I have a friend, a member here on CO, that is running the same setup with stock drum brakes and the original spindles. Right now I'm just waiting for the taller ball joints to arrive.
So while the spring was out I thought I'd have a look at the geometry and travel characteristics of these arms so I temporarily bolted up the brake assembly. I really didn't like what I saw. Eric, I think you are correct; they would bottom out.
Luckily the upper arm bolts came out without too much trouble so I ordered the arms folks on the OCA facebook page are using. I feel pretty good about this move; other than the fact that they are shipping from "United States, United States", whatever that's supposed to mean. If they take more than a week to get here I'll know they didn't come from the states.
Now, another question; I have the 0.90 taller ball joints coming. Would they be overkill with these arms? Would I see any benefit?
If they take more than a week to get here I'll know they didn't come from the states.
I once ordered some electronics stuff that shipped from China and it arrived in 3-4 days. The shipping labels even had a China company address as the origin. Prolly huge volume sales and air freight got it overseas so fast.
I once ordered some electronics stuff that shipped from China and it arrived in 3-4 days. The shipping labels even had a China company address as the origin. Prolly huge volume sales and air freight got it overseas so fast.
Wow! The couple of times I've ordered from Asia it took weeks. Hopefully these arms will come quickly. I'm anxious to finish this job.
Any opinions on the use of taller ball joints in the upper arms? Is it worth the cost for extra camber? I don't mind eating the $130 if it gives me better cornering.
I've never used tall ball joints or tubular control arms. The only thing I can offer is your after .5* of negative camber and with the tubular arms around 5-7* of positive caster. I don't know if the taller ball joints are needed to achieve that. I have read a few articles that there is no down side to using them. Nice thing is if you want to go back to a shorter upper its a very simple change.
I've never used tall ball joints or tubular control arms. The only thing I can offer is your after .5* of negative camber and with the tubular arms around 5-7* of positive caster. I don't know if the taller ball joints are needed to achieve that. I have read a few articles that there is no down side to using them. Nice thing is if you want to go back to a shorter upper its a very simple change.
I've been doing a lot of reading also. I'm leaning towards using the stock moog joints for now. For one, the taller ball joints might necessitate the use of longer shocks and I just bought new gas-adjust a couple summers ago. They have maybe 2k miles on them.
But yeah, they are an easy enough swap if I change my mind later. No presses, no pulling the springs. Sounds good to me
Update: I'm still waiting on the upper control arms. Should be here early next week. In the meantime I thought I'd go ahead and get the springs in. I've decided the AC Delco springs I got from Rackauto really don't fit. The tops are definitely not flat. When I stand them on the top, they have quite a bit of lean and trying to locate/clock them in the upper pocket doesn't feel right at all. So I rehabbed my original springs and got a little playful with the color; which I like. Gotta' have a little fun, right?
One of our Advance Auto Parts stores was closing and was having a half-off everything on the floor sale so I picked up another spring compressor and chopped maybe two inches off the threaded rod. Otherwise the rod sticks out the top of the spring when it's compressed.
Both springs are in and on jacks and just waiting for the upper arms to come.
Hey Mac, have you 'rehabed' that vinyl top yet.........
Now how did I know you were going to ask that Lol. Actually, a while back, I found a soft spot under that vinyl at the bottom corner of the rear window. Looks like I'll be at least pulling up the corners. If I have to pull up a lot I may end up with a true painted hard top
Rockauto says the spring I bought are for a Canadian Cutlass. That fact wasn't in the listing anywhere that I could see, and did the Canadian frames really have different spring pockets? I'm skeptical.
Update: I'm still waiting on the upper control arms. Should be here early next week. In the meantime I thought I'd go ahead and get the springs in. I've decided the AC Delco springs I got from Rackauto really don't fit. The tops are definitely not flat. When I stand them on the top, they have quite a bit of lean and trying to locate/clock them in the upper pocket doesn't feel right at all. So I rehabbed my original springs and got a little playful with the color; which I like. Gotta' have a little fun, right?
One of our Advance Auto Parts stores was closing and was having a half-off everything on the floor sale so I picked up another spring compressor and chopped maybe two inches off the threaded rod. Otherwise the rod sticks out the top of the spring when it's compressed.
Both springs are in and on jacks and just waiting for the upper arms to come.
Same color combo I’m going for - hard to see but red springs in back - will do front springs red as well
Rockauto says the spring I bought are for a Canadian Cutlass. That fact wasn't in the listing anywhere that I could see, and did the Canadian frames really have different spring pockets? I'm skeptical.
A Canadian Cutlass, eh? I suppose those have an offset engine, too.
Same color combo I’m going for - hard to see but red springs in back - will do front springs red as well
Hey, if you haven't already, you need to grab yourself one of these bad boys. Probably the best bang for the buck I've spent. And an easy install. Are those bolt holes in the trailing arms sleeved?
Hey fellas, since I'm using my original springs, and even if I weren't, is there a way to see the ride height before locking everything down? Can I leave the upper ball joints untorqued until I know for sure? I'm assuming the lower ball joints have to be torqued or the ride height would be off.
May 29th, 2019, 04:08 PM
Lol. Actually, a while back, I found a soft spot under that vinyl at the bottom corner of the rear window. Looks like I'll be at least pulling up the corners. If I have to pull up a lot I may end up with a true painted hard top 
