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Anyone have their steering changed over to 10:1? I was thinking this would be a nice upgrade to the 442. I had Lares Corp rebuild my '70 Chevy with an Iroc-Z gear section and I love it, feels practically like rack and pinion. Saved my hide a few weeks ago when an Lady in a Lincoln pulled out in front of me. Of course the big sways, stiffer springs, gas shocks and 15x7 rally's probably helped some too....
Anyone tried this mod out on their A-body? How'd you like it?
By the way, the box on my car has been rebuilt and yet the guy I bought the car from bought another steering box when he thought it was leaking (it was a p/s hose). What I'm getting at is I have an extra Lares rebuilt steering gear, unopened in the original packing if anyone is interested.
I put a 10:1 Lars on my 67 and i love it. Its very responsive, like a rak, but does not over steer. The steering and front suspension are very stable. All rebuilt of course.
Anyone have their steering changed over to 10:1? I was thinking this would be a nice upgrade to the 442. I had Lares Corp rebuild my '70 Chevy with an Iroc-Z gear section and I love it, feels practically like rack and pinion. Saved my hide a few weeks ago when an Lady in a Lincoln pulled out in front of me. Of course the big sways, stiffer springs, gas shocks and 15x7 rally's probably helped some too....
Anyone tried this mod out on their A-body? How'd you like it?
By the way, the box on my car has been rebuilt and yet the guy I bought the car from bought another steering box when he thought it was leaking (it was a p/s hose). What I'm getting at is I have an extra Lares rebuilt steering gear, unopened in the original packing if anyone is interested.
I may be interested. Can you message me with the price please? Thank you.
Just put one on my '69 Cutlass S & happy with results. My original stock set up could be driven using one finger. The 10:1 ratio is definitely tighter & requires more effort to turn wheel.
Just got a Lares 10:1 box yesterday. Haven’t opened yet, but supposed to be the correct core with flare fittings and original input spline. Will install tonite, but won’t be able to test since on jack stands until spring. Speaking of springs, got some of those to install as well.
Installed last night. It was a direct bolt-in, original Saginaw box. So none of that screwy SAE to Metric thread adaptation at the hose ports.
Before installation, I bench tested input turns from internal stop to stop. Factory box was about 4, new box is 2-1/8. Although a good indication of how much quicker the new box is, once installed I found the limits of new and old are controlled by the steering knuckle contacting the control arm. This of course means that the new box did not sacrifice any turn radius.
Next up is a new drag link. Something I found a bit worn when removing the pitman arm.
Installed a Lares 972 steering box On my 64 F85 this afternoon. Everything bolted up without any drama. Steers better but I expected more effort. Seems a bit twitchy just off center and does not return to center as fast As I think it should. Retro Ranger stated that Lares told him to couple hundred miles on it and it will loosen up to where it needs to be so I will be patient. Great thread Retro Ranger, thanks for following up on your install.
Keep in mind that the steering effort and the ratio of the box are somewhat unrelated. Ratio is a function of the installed gear set. Steering effort is a function of the torsion bar installed in the control valve at the input end of the box. The larger (and thus stiffer) the torsion bar, the higher the effort. Cars like the Impala SS got a quick ratio box but a small (low effort) torsion bar. You need to ask about both the ratio and the torsion bar when selecting a replacement box. Here's a little more info from another website:
The "feel" of the steering is determined by the torsion bar in the spool valve. Steering valve tension ranges from 22 in lbs up to 32 in lbs in the GM valves. Some aftermarket builders have built some that are 35 in lbs, but I don't know if they sell the parts or just use them in their own units. The higher the number the stiffer the feel; the factory determined the stiffness needed in relation to tire size and steering geometry. Using these guide lines I would say that stiffer isn't always better. For example in the F body for the 82 - 92 models the cars with 15" tires got a 28 in lb spool while the cars with the 16" tires cars got the 32 in lb spool. This was due to the different characteristics of the tires. The hi-performance G bodies (84 - 87 Monte Carlo SS and Buick GN ) received a 30 in lb spool. The 92 - 96 Impala SS only used a 22 in lb spool, but it had really wide tires and that would tend to stiffen the road feel.
Thanks for the info Joe. I will call Lares and ask them what size bar they use for this box. I’m not sure if I will keep this box, I will see how it goes. Thanks again.
Anyone have their steering changed over to 10:1? I was thinking this would be a nice upgrade to the 442. I had Lares Corp rebuild my '70 Chevy with an Iroc-Z gear section and I love it, feels practically like rack and pinion. Saved my hide a few weeks ago when an Lady in a Lincoln pulled out in front of me. Of course the big sways, stiffer springs, gas shocks and 15x7 rally's probably helped some too....
Anyone tried this mod out on their A-body? How'd you like it?
By the way, the box on my car has been rebuilt and yet the guy I bought the car from bought another steering box when he thought it was leaking (it was a p/s hose). What I'm getting at is I have an extra Lares rebuilt steering gear, unopened in the original packing if anyone is interested.
Lares 10972 on rockauto, now listed at 360$ looks like prices went up
ok thats not accurate, the 10972 has something different camaro internals, not sure what that means. The 972 is out of stock.
i would call lares maybe they can rebuild yours? Or theres other companies that offer PS box rebuilds, as well as thetrued and true jeep grand cherokee box.
tj thanks for the kind words, did you end up keeping your box
Last edited by RetroRanger; March 22nd, 2021 at 06:29 PM.
I did end up keeping the box, I got use to it. It does appear to turn farther in one direction than the other. I may call lares and ask them about it. This ratio is far superior to the original one. Thanks again retro.
Lares 10972 on rockauto, now listed at 360$ looks like prices went up
ok thats not accurate, the 10972 has something different camaro internals, not sure what that means. The 972 is out of stock.
i would call lares maybe they can rebuild yours? Or theres other companies that offer PS box rebuilds, as well as thetrued and true jeep grand cherokee box.
tj thanks for the kind words, did you end up keeping your box
I did end up keeping the box, I got use to it. It does appear to turn farther in one direction than the other. I may call lares and ask them about it. This ratio is far superior to the original one. Thanks again retro.
hmm i dont think i ever noticed that...lol now im going to have to do some lock to lock testing...in a few weeks.
I did end up keeping the box, I got use to it. It does appear to turn farther in one direction than the other. I may call lares and ask them about it. This ratio is far superior to the original one. Thanks again retro.
If your turns L-L aren't equal then you don't have your output shaft to Flex coupling clocked correctly
I put the Lares 974 power steering gear in my '69 Cutlass. I was told that is the 10:1 ratio. Love the way it handles now. Got it from Rock Auto in 2018 for $270.00.
I believe they are still available. Good luck.
I’ve got a Lares 972 with the 10:1 ratio on my 72 cutlass and it’s great. Obviously a lot more responsive with good steering feel. Should be even better when I get the ride height right and a sway bar on the rear.
I don't want to hijack this thread. I have a sector from a WS-6 T/A That I want to put in my 69 Cutlass. I believe it to be 12.7. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The yard failed to get me the bolts that secure it. Do I need to be looking for metric bolts the length of the OE in my 69? Where do I go to get adapters from inverted flare on the 69 hoses to O-ring on the
Pontiac sector?
Hello, I have the Lares 10972 on the way for my Cutlass. I was just wondering what rag joint to use with it or can I use the existing one that has about 10000 miles on it, not covered in oil or anything that could degrade it. Has anyone use the U-joints and double D shaft to replace the steering shaft? The steering gear that is in the car has far too much play in it and was rebuilt before I purchased the car.
Hello, I have the Lares 10972 on the way for my Cutlass. I was just wondering what rag joint to use with it or can I use the existing one that has about 10000 miles on it, not covered in oil or anything that could degrade it. Has anyone use the U-joints and double D shaft to replace the steering shaft? The steering gear that is in the car has far too much play in it and was rebuilt before I purchased the car.
I just ordered the Lares 201 31 tooth rag joint. I called Lares directly and that is the item for 10972 gear box.
I was able to install the new steering box with the proper rag joint. I had a few hickups along the way and I am waiting on new power steering hoses because I could not get the lines to seat properly but did not figure that part out till after bleeding the system and removed the jack stands. I did move the car and now there is no play in the steering which is good. Cannot wait to get the new hoses and install them so I can drive the car again and not worry about death wobble at 70+mph.
I had a Lares 972 in my 69 Cutlass and the LL was less but to totally changed the turning radius. Any turn more than 90 degrees required backing up and trying again. Maybe I got a bad gear but I pulled it out and put in the Jeep GC box and now have my turning radius back and an improvement in somewhat tighter steering. I had purchased at Advance and got the 20% off, total cost $234.00.
While I was bolting everything back up on my car yesterday I did move things around to check what the turning radius is like now and lock to lock it seems to be the same as it was before with the old steering box. Then while moving the car under power the steering is noticeably stiffer but part of that could be the leaking power steering hose fittings. I will have them changed out later this week and test it all again.
Just got the Lares 10972 and rag joint from Rockauto....I'm replacing the manual steering box. Am I to swap the pitman arm from the manual to Lares box?
Just got the Lares 10972 and rag joint from Rockauto....I'm replacing the manual steering box. Am I to swap the pitman arm from the manual to Lares box?
Thanks,
Chad
The pitman shaft on a power box is larger in diameter than the one on a manual box. You need a correct power steering pitman arm.
This thread (as the many other steering threads on this site) are great reads for me. After having rebuilt basically my entire suspension, the steering remains far too loose. I've noodled & noodled the PS box worm gear adjustment until I'm blue in the face and I've noticed a fair (0.75" - 1.00") amount of play in the steering column. Most likely I'll be changing out the rag joint & PS box soon. Great information regarding steering boxes and in particular steering valve tension ranges, ratio & torsion - now, that makes great sense especially in relation to the body styles of various vehicles & tire size(s). Good stuff.
Greetings all. I realize this is an older thread, but I am looking to switch to the Lares 972 Steering Box on my 1969 Cutlass S Convertible and was curious to see if anyone has installed one since these earlier posts? I am doing what I call a "full refresh" on the old girl which includes all but taking the body off the frame. With this process, I am replacing all the suspension components (shocks, springs, steering, sway bar) and hope this will tighten up the steering. I appreciate the great expertise on the forum and have learned much from all the various experiences. Thanks in advance for any guidance...
For some reason I had a problem withe the Lares 972 and my turning radius. Maybe it was not centered correctly? But I wound up going with the 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee gear and am happy with it. It is better than the original equipment. A lot of guys pick them up cheap at a junkyard but I went to Advanced Auto for $130 after 20% discount. If I recall correctly it was a direct fit no hose changes. I felt like if I had an issue I could return it without shipping expenses. Looks like a nice project you have there. If you don't have the rear 1/4 peak moldings start looking now. They are like hen's teeth or gold but in time you will find something reasonable. Of course the stick on ones work for a temporary solution.
Good luck,
Steve
Thanks so much for the reply Steve! I will definitely check our the Jeep gear. I do agree that buying through Advance or other local stores is preferable if they have the right parts...easier returns if necessary. As far as the moldings go, I am
fortunate...car was from New Mexico and was 100% intact. I have chosen to replace all the consumables that were made from plastic (grille...) because they were pretty much eaten up. However, the stainless moldings were all there with just the need for a good buffing. Spending way more than I should but believe it will be a great driver when finished and not something I am looking to sell. Thanks again for your help!
You are correct. 350, 2 Speed Auto (changed to 2004-R), White Buckets, rust free. I'll post additional pics as I progress in the appropriate forum. Thanks again!
February 28th, 2019, 04:01 PM
Cutlass with 10:1 Ratio Steering Gear
