MDchanic

With apologies to RustyRoger, what the heck is wrong with that country?

Is this the country that carried on through the Blitz and fought Hitler like a cornered animal?

- Eric

oldcutlass

All of our problems started with doctor Spock ( for those old enough to remember), the 2 wage earner household, and doing away with the Blue Laws.

Think about it.

Rickman48

As the oldest of nine, born in the 40's, I don't even want to go there!!!!!!!!!!

MDchanic

No argument here.

My442

Too much entitlement, too many give-aways, no value for hard work, welfare, single parent households, etc.

Lots of reasons, and now you are seeing the fruits of all of these causes.

America is flabby!

69HO43

To note, shortly after that drowning, after many similar incidents resulting in policy/law delays to rescue people, the British government have now exempted rescuers from legal harm if they breach safety laws such as this in order to rescue someone. So now, they CAN jump into 3 feet of water without fear of losing their jobs if they're trying to save someone. Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead.

What I don't get is why any bystanders wouldn't jump in if the guy was truly save-able. Sounds like their social government breeds either selfish or totally-dependant-on-government people.

By the way, blue laws were idiotic anyway. Some early blue laws in the U.S. required you to attend church services, and authorized armed forces escort to the church if you did not comply. Does anyone really miss that? Around here, they were enacted mainly to prevent alcohol sales on Sunday. But if I wanted to buy my beer for Sunday, I'd just buy double on Saturday. Work-arounds DO work. I'm not religious, so it wouldn't benefit me at all as it is. It only hindered me and my freedom to choose it or not. If you don't believe in sales on Sunday, then you get the choice to stay the f$$ out of the stores. We don't need a stupid law to limit people's choices. Thank goodness they finally repealed those around here. In fact, I told the wife to pick up some more beer at the store today.

MDchanic

I would assume that the woman quoted in the article called 999 (911 over there), as she thought she was supposed to, there weren't a lot of people around, and she didn't see herself as a lifeguard, then 5 minutes later when the cops showed up, they probably ordered everyone to stay away from the water, under pain of arrest. After all, if Fire and EMS couldn't go in, it wouldn't look good for a bystander to do it, now would it?

And as for the rest, yes, self-reliance is frowned upon. There are people whose job it is to protect you. If you kill a burglar in your home, you're likely to go to jail.

- Eric

rustyroger

Well as the man on the spot I feel obliged to contribute.

First off, it's the Mail on Sunday running the story, IMO not far behind the Sun (which daily features a topless model on page three as a selling point) as Britains worst newspaper.

But the essence of the story is true, sadly we are now a "don't do anything or you'll get sued" society. I can't turn on my tv without getting bombarded by ambulance chasing law firms.
Also we have come to expect somebody else to fix any problems we might have.

I guess the answer to Erics post is no, this isn't the nation that built the worlds largest empire, stood up to hitler, founded a healthcare system that was the envy of the world, was renowned for fine engineering and came up with a disproportionately large amount of inventions.

Roger.

MDchanic

You say that like it's a bad thing.

And watch out - Rupert is listening in right now...

So what you're saying is that it looks like the UK and the US are heading into a time when they've got a lot in common, then...

- Eric

72 cutlass455

A while ago a man walked out in to san francisco harbor chest deep. Police and so called emergency responders. Watched for two hours preventing folks on the shore attempting any rescue. Their excuse was union laws prevented them from doing any thing that was not on their job description. And they had not been trained in water rescue. The man died of hyperthermia as hundreds watched. Welcome to the new world.

MDchanic

I always thought the water felt warmer in California than around here.

- Eric

Allan R

Well, I wasn't there. And it could have happened 'anywhere'. The fact that it happened in GB is sad, but should not blacken their image as a country or a people. I believe there are many unreported acts of heroism that go on that far offset this 'ugly' incident. Everyone loves a good story, but this isn't one of them.

If I had been there? I would not have waited for help to arrive since I'm fully capable of helping out myself. Yes, I would dial 911 first but wouldn't wait on shore for help to arrive. How is this different from someone being in a car crash and the vehicle is on fire? You don't sit and watch, do you? God I hope not. Similarly, no one jumps in first thinking of how it will look in the local rag. They do it from genuine concern to help or preserve life. That doesn't imply they would take unnecessary risks or put themself in danger either. This could easily have been a small child too. Who it is doesn't matter. What does is your willingness to help. My Province protects anyone trying to help from legal prosecution, even if it results in a tragedy through the 'Good Samaritan Act'. People who know me personally know my comment is not out the top of my hat.

mike's88

That truly is a sad story, but the 1 that got my attention, was the 1 where the female mayor banned her husband from going to the "racey" cafe'. Just had to click on that story to what travesty happened.

442much

That's too bad. Here you see news footage of policemen and fireman crawling out on the ice to save a trapped dog. This is not typical of the UK, just an unusual story that makes headlines. Had I been the cop, I would have waded in even if ordered out and claimed that I didn't hear the orders. If push came to shove I'd argue that they were picking on me because on my hearing and that is discrimination. There are ways around everything.

Destructor

Nanny state, exactly what the USA is turning into. And if you are successful you will be villified.

MDchanic

It's always the same bureaucratic crap.

Back when I worked EMS, there was a crew on midnights that saw smoke billowing out the windows of a tenement building on the Lower East Side around 05:00.
They called the fire in, pulled the bus up on the sidewalk, climbed up on the roof, up onto the fire escape, and evacuated the building down onto the roof of the bus and then to the street.
Afterward, they were given their commendations and their charge packages (for "Failure to Safeguard," ie: endangering their equipment by placing it too close to the fire) at the same time.

The supervisors always have a way to write you up.

- Eric

rustyroger

My point was if you need pictures of bare breasted young women to induce you to read a newspaper you probably don't care much about what's happening in the real world.

Damn right Rupert is listening in, hacking into emails and phone tapping appears to be standard journalism practice here.
Of course he denied all knowledge when called to answer for Newscorps conduct by a parliamentary hearing (like a Senate hearing I think).

Roger.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

I have a question,

What's this thread about??? I'm confused...

MDchanic

Agreed. Applies equally to most in the US and GB, nude pictures or not - nobody gives a toss about what's going on outsside their garden gate.

I know.
I follow it in the Guardian (they have a healthy disrespect for NewsCorp).

The decline of Western Civilization.
(but it's not political )

- Eric

71 Cutlass

Where's Ward and June Cleaver when you need them? Ah, the good old days... could use more of those days again.

1969w3155

An outsider could look at the U.S. and ask, why do your children kill one another? Until we solve our own problems, we should not be quick to throw stones at others.

rustyroger

A fellow Guardian reader!, don't let the authorities get wind of your radical freethinking behavior.
The last thing they want is the general public trying to be informed of what is going on in the world and making up your own mind.

The Independent also gives both sides of controversial news stories and invites you to form your own opinion.

Roger.

MDchanic

Nothing unusual about it here in New England .
I generally skim the Guardian and the NYT, and Corriere della Sera when there's some Italian news I want to follow (I can't get involved in their which-politician-is-boffing-which-starlet imbroglios any more than I can England's, I'm afraid).
For the West of the Hudson perspective, I listen to Fox radio a bit whenever I drive. Important to see what's motivating the mainland.

Have you actually read any of this thread?

Have you ever actually thrown stones at anyone? You don't know what you're missing. Well, until someone loses an eye, anyway...

- Eric

fitter bill

guys i look to this site for help & info on my olds & you guys hae been great .every night many of us watch the nighty news and for the most part its depressing .can we just get back to talking oldsmobiles & how to keep them running . again i have picked up so help you thanks BILL

1969w3155

The whole thing.

oldsguybry

no value for hard work is right .

MDchanic

The people who have posted here are obviously interested in reading this thread.
If you don't like it, don't read it.

If any of the mods believes it is "political," I am sure they will let us know.

Okay, then. Where in the thread have you observed any "stones" being "thrown?"

- Eric

Lady72nRob71

This thread has been very political and the mods have been watching it like hawks from above. The only reason it stayed open was that it was discussion had been very civilized and noone had been offended.
I see some arguements brewing so it may be time to swoop down for the kill.
Lets not start any more of these, please.

EDIT:
We will give this one more chance, given an explanation by Eric and review of other mods.
The intent was not political, but this is borderlined, especially some of the other posts.
If any conflicts arise, it will be shut down for good.