jaunty75

We've been talking about this, and this latest should come as no surprise. With minimum wages rising around the country and the increasing ability to automate, entry-level jobs like these will disappear. Actually, they ARE disappearing.



Wendy's plans self-ordering kiosks at 1,000 locations

http://www.businessinsider.com/ap-we...17-2?r=UK&IR=T

Jamesbo

I saw a similar situation in a Mickey D's not long ago. May have been and annoying prototype

MDchanic

Yes, if you can be replaced by a machine, you will be replaced, sooner or later.

Trouble is that as the number of jobs goes down, and the number of unemployed people goes up, the number of people who can go into a business and buy something will go down as well, and all businesses will suffer.
It's great for the particular business in question, on the short term, but lousy for everyone in the long term.

Henry Ford improved the whole economy by employing lots of men at a good wage, and by supplying cheap cars (which replaced horses, but not people), but the trend now is toward more business success equalling fewer employed workers. Über is going to go driverless, long haul trucking is going to go driverless, ordering and checkouts are going to go automatic, Amazon will continue to increase automation in stocking and order-pulling, and is working toward automated delivery. As more and more jobs disappear, fewer and fewer people will be able to afford to buy anything, and more and more will become angry, because the simple fact is that not everyone can be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, or other professional.

There are no easy or simple solutions, but the solution of "Get a Job!" which used to be reasonably valid, will become much less so over the next 20 years or so, when there will simply be fewer jobs to get. Other solutions all seem a bit socialistic, such as laws discouraging automation, or a "universal minimum income," but something will have to be done to keep the economy, and the country, from falling apart.

- Eric

oldsmobiledave

We've had these in Canada for a couple of years now at McD

oldspackrat

Dave,
How has your experience with them been? Can you special order food, ie. extra pickles, things like that? Not that I go to Mcd very often at all, just curious.

stellar

It looks like the counter jobs will be replaced by manufacturing (the new machines) servicing, maintaining and repair. Stocking the machines and cleaning will be the only unskilled labor.

Fun71

I must be missing something as I don't see how ordering at a kiosk will be any faster than ordering from a person at the counter. Most places have more than one person taking orders at peak hours, so how will a kiosk allow a person to circumvent long lines?

oldcutlass

Thats the problem when adults want to make a living doing entry level jobs that were meant for kids. Those jobs were never meant to be careers.

35tac

May not decrease time to get your order but you don't have to pay it $15.00 per hour.

anthonyP

That's just great, now that America has a service oriented economy, let's start displacing the service workers.

oldsmobiledave

I don't know. I just order basic items and carry on.

At least you always get what you order (no language barrier)

MDchanic

I've never ordered through a kiosk, but I have ordered on line from a few places, and typically, after you click the box for the thing that you want, a dozen more checkboxes open up, for "Delete," "Regular," and "Extra" for anything you could put on it.

The system seems to work well - basically, the counter person is clicking the same boxes, and they are lighting up on some screen in the back, over the prep table, so all you are doing is eliminating the middle man (and his job).

- Eric

oldspackrat

Got it, thanks.

seansolds

(dōmo arigatō misutā Robotto).. Thank you very much Mr. Roboto until the day we meet again!

Olds64

I ordered a meal through a kiosk recently. It was at the Buc-ee's service station in Madisonville, TX on highway 45. The place was PACKED and the kiosk didn't seem to make service any faster. My order was correct though.

droptopron

I can offer some insight on this. I work in NYC and frequent a Panera Bread that is always crowded. They've had the kiosks for a while. Once you get used to them, they are better. The place prob has 16 touch screens & two registers with one open. If you have one of their customer loyalty cards you swipe that. Your coupons come up. If you save favorites they come up. Previous orders come up. You can tailor the order the way you want & then pay with a credit card. No language barrier & generally no waiting on lines.


I talked a bit to the manager about it as they were a pilot program. He said they have reduced headcount but some of the remaining positions have been given more responsibility in customer service. They pay a bit more & are considered a step between being a line worker & working your way up to management. Since I go there a lot they know me by name & I am greeted with a smile. It is EXACTLY the kind of position a business like this should be able to offer people who are working there and aspire to more.

jaunty75

I don't think the purpose is to make service faster. The purpose of this is to not have to pay $15 per hour to people who are doing a job worth $8 per hour.

Olds64

Right, I was just mentioning it. I found the kiosk at Buc-ee's was better engineered than the ones at Wal Mart. Those are a PITA to use, it seems they're always broken and a customer service employee needs to help you anyways.

garage goat2

I so totally agree.

RAMBOW

There is a mcd's near me that just completed a big fancy remodel and put in two automated order kiosks, and only has one actual register anymore.

As i walked in, a guy asked me (while escorting me to it) if i'd like to try the kiosk. After 5 mins trying to figure out how to order what i wanted (pretty basic order, but not a #XYZ) with the guys assistance I told him to forget it and went up to the person at the register and ordered what i wanted in about 5 seconds.

Had similar experiences a few years ago at jack in the box when they tried them, though that one was far better than the MCD one.

If they want to give me a discount to use the damn thing maybe i'll take the time to figure it out- but it was not even close to worth the headache they caused.

Its like going to a register on some kids first day... except its your own fault for not knowing how to order/use the system.

Its a brave new world!

Jamesbo

I went to an eye clinic the other day that you had to check in on a touch screen and scan your insurance card. ROYAL PITA and the place was a factory

Olds64

VA hospitals and clinics have gone to that exclusively. If you go to the attendant at the desk to check in they will send you to the kiosk. Of course, the VA is a major PITA. All of the employees are government workers so they don't have to worry about loosing their jobs.

wr1970

Count me out on all that stuff.I don't roll over that easy. I will go elsewhere where i see a person at the check out and to order.

Erinyes

I've never used a self-serve checkout, never will. This is the same thing: a way to eliminate a wage.

damaged442

I too have never used a self checkout. Have not used an automated kiosk either. I always go where I can actually interact with a person...


Unfortunately, society as a whole is headed in the other direction, but I intend to fight it wherever I can.

Junkman

I have been thinking about how to counter this movement. I believe that if the public were to just leave the trays on the table, instead of emptying it into the trash container, and putting the tray on top, that management will have to increase the number of people to "police" the tables, and make sure that they are clean. Heck, a national movement to do this would get the attention of all the chain fast food stores. They trained the public to do what used to be done by the "bus boy" in restaurants.
I refuse to use self check out at any store that I visit.

jaunty75

I use self-checkout anywhere I can. I use it all the time at WalMart. I'd much rather get through the checkout process in 2 minutes instead of waiting in line for 15.

Junkman

I would rather give up 15 minutes out of my day to know that it is time well spent, keeping another human being employed, so they can live in dignity, knowing that they are making an effort to support themselves and their family. 15 minutes is a small price to pay to help your fellow human being, rather than a robot. Also, consider that if that person isn't working, there is a chance that he/she will wind up on welfare, costing the taxpayers more money in taxes.
Automation is great in some instances, but every time we automate a process, it takes jobs from the people. If we keep automating every aspect of life, then we will wind up with more people that can find employment, and at some point, we will become a nation of robots and the unemployed. I might not live long enough to see this, but I will bet that there are many on this forum that are young enough to live long enough to see it in their lifetime.

Koda

Sorry, Junk, old buddy, while that sentiment is noble, it smacks of socialism, and I will try to avoid the political here, but this economy is capitalist. Like said earlier in the thread, entry level cashier is not meant to be anything other than work experience and auxiliary income. Welfare is also not the answer.

I have a lot of sympathy for any disabled person, and they should be helped out with whatever job they can manage so they can have independence and dignity. But, I lack that sympathy for a lazy person who will not level up.

I'm an engineer; I have no interest in management. I am happy with my pay, but, if I wanted more pay, I know I would have to advance in the organization to raise the maximum pay to which I could aspire.

My solution for people wanting more money is this: do more. Bust your ***, be cheerful, do more advanced duties....and get a raise. You will deserve it, and the others who did not do that, will not.

Junkman

If we replace all these entry level jobs with self service / robots, then how are young people going to get any experience in the entry work place? I hired a lot of young people in my business, and until the day that I retired, I had many of them come back, and say thank you for giving me a chance to work, when no one else would hire them, because they were in high school. Many of them worked for me during the summer break in both high school and college. I paid them a fair wage, and advanced them into better paying jobs. Sure, I could have gotten along with fewer of them, but for me, it wasn't about saving money, it was about providing a job to those that wanted to work. If no one is willing to give these young people a break, and hire them, then what is their choices in life going to be? I am not a socialist, and it is the furthest place in my thinking. I am a capitalist and an entrepreneur, who started with my first job in a factory on summer break. That job taught me a lot, and by todays standards, it was hard work, for little pay. It gave me a work ethic, and a belief that as I progressed in life, I feel that I have a moral obligation to help others now that I can, because that was what I was given when I was younger. Some of my employees were special needs people, who were trained to do only one or two basic jobs, but they did those jobs well, and they were compensated well.

LondonCutlass

Interesting thread. We too have many of our shops automated which to me is a PITA, not because they are any quicker or slower but just for the fact that most of them don't work that well and invariably you have to call the assistant for help.
In reply to Junkman, I'm afraid that I can't agree with all of your sentiments. I actively avoid employing young people in my line of work, I have 109 employees and it's always the younger ones that are lazy and unenthusiastic. I pay over the average in my field and I look after my staff. My youngest staff is 18 and my oldest is 74 and I would rather have a pensioner working for me rather than a teenager.

Indy_68_S

My experience as well. I'm apparently the bane of technology (which sucks since it's my career !). Kiosks (airline, rental car, self-checkout, whatever... ) are my nemeses. If there's a potential path to malfunction, my actions will somehow reveal it for even the simplest process. I'll bet >50% of the time something happens that requires company human intervention.

I prefer to deal with the humans. Being friendly & polite with them gives them the motivation to overcome whatever SNAFU has occurred on their end as opposed to the kiosk that just chipperly shows "Something went wrong! "

jaunty75

My experience with airline check-in kiosks is generally positive. I think they're a great improvement over the mile-long check-in lines I used to see at airline counters.

My experience with the kiosks is that an airline will have maybe four islands of them with five check-in screens on each. So 20 people can be checking in at one time. There is also an airline staffer hanging around amongst the kiosks to help anyone who runs into a problem. But the point is that this one person is helping twenty people check in at one time. That's a huge improvement in efficiency of the check-in process versus the old way.

Probably 18 of those people don't need help, anyway, and those two who do are helped by the staffer. But this is much more efficient than the old way. Yes, if you're checking luggage, you still have to walk up to the airline counter, but only those checking luggage do, and half (or more) of travelers nowadays don't check luggage to avoid the baggage fees. So the handing-your-checked-luggage-to-the-airline-staffer process is speeded up as well.

Then there's the ability, if you're not checking luggage, to avoid the kiosks and airline counters altogether. Just check in online as soon as it's within 24 hours of your departure time. Print your boarding pass at home (or have it emailed to your smartphone), and then, when you get to the airport, go straight to the security line and omit the entire check-in process. That's the way to go and what I do any time I fly with no checked luggage. I also check-in this way when I DO have checked luggage, and when I get to the airport, I skip the kiosks and go straight to the counter to hand them my luggage. Online check-in saves time no matter what your luggage situation is.

jensenracing77

Nothing like a bunch of snot nosed sick people using a touch screen just before you do then go eat.... I said 3 years ago when this talk just started that all they need is one of these for people like me that are out of date and the rest of the people could just use an app on there phone to order when they walk in the door. Would be much less money than the Kiosks.

jaunty75

So use the eraser-end of a pencil to touch it.

Think of all the things you might touch in a given day that have been touched by other people. Door *****, elevator buttons, handrails, ATM buttons, the door handle on the refrigerator in the break room at work, the list is endless. Do you wear gloves when you touch any of those things, too, or do you touch them with your bare hands without giving it a second thought?

jensenracing77

No I don't but I do wash my hands before I eat.