zeeke

The Ramones started about 1974, off the top of my head I can think of 3 bands that predate them. The New York Dolls where 70', 71' and Iggy PoP & the Stooges, some where around 67'. The last is the Kinks. I'm not familiar with their early stuff but I had to resort to Wikapedia on them and it says they started in 63', which would predate MC5. I'm sure others could name many more.
I would agree the Ramones were the first to capitalize on punk, which ironically is everything punk was against, but they didn't start the revolution. They were 4 guys out of Forrest Hills, Queens, NY. Growing up in Queens back then I knew who they were and even ran into to them later in life. Although I couldn't tell you if there intention was to "go commercial" they might have been one of the first to do so. Followed by the Kinks & The Clash. If I remember correctly Clash fans were not happy with them going main stream.
I went a different direction than Punk but did run with some of the local bands out of that era. Token Entry, The Meat Men, there was another out of Woodside, Queens, NY (Bryant High School mid 80's) can't remember their name, anyone?
Another that comes to mind, The Beastie Boys. They originally started out in CBGB's as a hard core band. Now they capitalized.
Not sure how accurate the story is, I remember it second hand, but I was told British Airways stole one of there riffs & used it in a commercial. It was supposed to be a goof on rap. They sued BA & won. Wala... they went full clown rap. Anyone out there with first hand insight?

zeeke

It just came to me, Kraut.

m371961

The Kinks and Ray Davies hit the US top forty in 1966 with Sunny Afternoon, then 1970 with Lola.

coppercutlass

Count 5 psychotic reaction .

Blackpage

I'd submit that The Who were the first "punks". Their attitude, playing fast & smashing their instruments laid the blueprint to what was to follow. Not only did they lay the groundwork for punk but also heavy metal(volume!) and progressive(mini opera & concept albums).

Terribly underrated. Beatles & Stones were great but a notch below Led Zeppelin & The Who musically speaking.

RROLDSX

IMO some of the early Who was not very good. They were still experimenting with sounds and it didn't sound good to me because of the lack of melody which I like in music. To me a lot of punk music is just experimentation in how to be bizarre, just like the Who we're doing before they became one of the biggest bands in the world.

RROLDSX

Didn't Kiss kinda copy the New York Dolls.

rustyroger

The first punk?, Leadbelly and Woodie Guthrie pre-date all the above. How do you define punk anyway?.
If it's making music to please themselves punk is as old as music itself.

Roger.

TripDeuces

Goth/punk before either was known about.

coppercutlass

Here is another gloom/punk/ goth sound.

coppercutlass

A link to a really good punk band many have never probably heard. When people say punk music is played by people with no talent it ticks me off because there are many good bands out there like this one. They have been around since the late 70's all original band and they still tour . Seen them twice back in 2007 and 2009.

zeeke

I would agree with the Who but they didn't really get that hard sound until after about 66' 67'. When I was a kid in the 70's there was a station in NYC called WPLJ, they played hard rock, not the PLJ of today that only plays redundant pop. Every so often they would have a Zepplin, Stones, Beatles, Who day. Coincidentally, that was when NY radio was good. Now you can almost time when they are going to play the same song. That's when the Who got their well deserved recognition in NY.


A few years back a friend said he went to see them, my answer to him was aren't they washed up? Well I found out first hand, NO! I had forgotten earlier in the year another friend called asking if I was in for a reunion Forest Hill Arena Who concert & told him if the rest of the boys are going I'm in. The morning of the show he said we are meeting at 5 in a bar down the block. As I said, totally forgot. I was scheduled to work & he ripped into me. Made a last minute swap on got someone to cover my shift and went. They were great. First time in Forest Hills Arena as well for me. Excellent place to see a show. Small place with reasonable ticket prices outdoors & beer the whole show. In a residential area so they shut down at 10PM sharp. Anyone get a chance to see a show there, go.

RR: I'd say yes with the dress up part. Even though others disagree, I believe they got their sound from MC5. They where all from NY, I know 2 are from Forest Hills, and the first album was "Detroit Rock City". As a kid I went wild for them. As I got older I started to think they were a business. When Ace & Peter Chris left the band for a second time Paul Stanley came right out and said it in an interview. Once they went Disco I never paid attention to them again. As the great Yogurt said "Merchandizing"! Space ***** the toilet paper.

Copper: Yep, that makes 5.

zeeke

Roger: If you go by the unofficial definition of punk I'd have to agree with you.

Duces: Any idea on the year?

Copper: I'm liking the Wicked Lady, will look into them, thanks. I have heard of the Adicts, talented but, I was more of an Anthrax, Accept style. I'll listen to almost anything with talent so I'll give them another listen. I can even get into some rap. I've grown to like Biggie and Snoop probably because the younger guys I worked with 10 years ago would put it on to get a rise out of me.

TripDeuces

Talk Talk was released in 1966

Diego

The "punk" that was garage bands is not the same as the punk that we associate with CBGBs and, more appropriately, the Sex Pistols and other Brit groups from the era.

steverw

I personally dont like the Who, i think their music is bubble gum. In my opinion they only made it big because they were a British band in the middle of the "British invasion". Thats all it took. But they do have a big following, just my opinion.

coppercutlass

The sex pistols where a joke. They ruined the movement and made many hands label themselves as newave

Diego

The Who are far from bubblegum - they were the leader of the Mods.

Plus, at one point they were the biggest band in the world....hell, they were so great live that they embarrassed the Rolling Stones in their own movie to the point the Stones didn't release said movie till 40 years later!

MDchanic

PLJ? Meh.

WNEW had some great music, along with Alison Steele.

You couldn't miss WPIX and WLIR, either, though.


As for precursors of the NY Dolls and Iggy, what about the Velvet Underground?
All three are Max's groups first and CB's groups second.


- Eric

coppercutlass

Velvet underground is a great one not mentioned . What about blondie. Talking heads

MDchanic

They played at CB's, too, but they were definitely not punk in style, and, especially in Blondie's case, were the originators of the "New Wave," which the record companies worked hard to differentiate from Punk.

They also played after the bands originally mentioned by the OP, rather than before.

- Eric

coppercutlass

But still they had many songs influenced by the genre and scene.

oldcutlass

I always looked at the Who as a progressive rock band. They were very creative and Tommy was probably the most creative album ever made.

zeeke

Wow, I didn't think this would take off.

Eric: forgot about NEW, another good station as was WBAB. WLIR not my type of music. Flock of Segulls... I'm out. Wasn't Donna Donna originally from LIR? Now she's on BAB. Once the New Wave bubble burt they sold out and went completely Spanish. Not much for that either since I cannot understand the lyrics; no hapla. I do like the dancing women though.

Diego: We need to define garage band. If they put out an album, not just an EP are they still garage? The bands mentioned have albums out & they all played CB's, although CB's was mostly underground and garage.

Copper: that makes six. No the other two don't count.

Steve: The early Who I'd say you have a point. Don't know if you've listened to Quadraphinia but by far one of the greatest albums of all time. Don't listen to a song at a time it loses it's magic. Far from bubble gum. Once Keith Moon died they should have shut it down though. If you are into hard rock try to dissect that album. Give it the 4 time listen. Play it for 3 times straight through then listen to it the 4th. I'm almost going to guarantee you change your mind.

Albums on my top four, not necessarily in this order are:
1 or 2 - UFO Strangers in the Night. (if you have never heard of UFO this is where you start, then go backwards.)
1 or 2 - Black Sabbath Heaven & Hell. (this is the first album with Dio very different band from the Ozzy years).

1 or 2 means I go back an forth on which one is better. The other 2 there is no order for.

The Who Quadrophinia
Queensryche Opperation Mindcrime

I don't have a 5 because I float on which is better. Not much of a Beetles or Stones fan, but Pink Floyd's The Wall is a contender for 5. Zepplin has some good stuff but I've grown tired of it over the years due to local radio playing it out. Stairway to Heaven is not the greatest song ever written they have many songs that are far better. I would, however, put John Bonham in my top 3 drummers. ELP is also up there. I'd have to run through my albums to give you some others. Again, these are my choices, they are not Gospel. Depending on what you are into and your exposure you could agree or disagree.

Have a good Sunday all.

MDchanic

Funny, when I was listening to them, they played cutting edge new hard rock.
Stations do seem to morph their styles, though...


I remember Donna Donna. And Meg Griffin.



CB's was a big as a garage.


- Eric

MDchanic

Have you listened to "Freak Out!" (from 1966)?

- Eric

coppercutlass

I mentioned talking heads because the cbgb's thing came up. Lots of bands played there wide range of sound and style.

oldcutlass

Zeeke, Quadrophinia was made to take advantage of the new 4 channel sound systems that were just released. It was very interesting on how the sounds were mixed to make you feel like you were sitting in the middle of it.

Indy_68_S

Note: Yes, I'm a huge Who fan !

X2 - And if possible listen under phones or at least in a good acoustic setting. Some production skills in there and the concept plays like a movie when listening. Have the photo book on hand while listening.

While it was the plan & he spent a lot of time trying, Townshend abandoned using quad. He tried working with the tech that Pink Floyd had been experimenting with and sometimes using at their live shows, but he couldn't get acceptable results for studio production and finally gave up. Quadrophenia was recorded & mixed purely in stereo (and expertly done).

RandyS

I have always been a huge WHO fan. I have seen virtually every major group from the 70's, 80's and 90's in concert, and the WHO stand out as sounding even better in person than they do on their recordings. Best concert I have ever seen was the WHO at the Filmore in San Francisco in 1971 (but we were all a bit 'enhanced' for that one......lol)

MDchanic

You win this thread.



- Eric

Diego

"Progressive" is King Crimson, ELP, Yes, etc.

The Who were Mods who simply evolved into the world's best rock 'n roll band.

Some of The Who's contemporaries also evolved in a similar manner, such as the Small Faces. The Mods were more of a mid-1960s phenomenon that seemed obsolete by 1968, when music was becoming heavier and the hippie-dippiness of LSD was being replaced by speed and coke (although the latter was much more of a 1970s thing). Take these three related albums from 1971:

The Who's "Who's Next"
The Faces' "A Nod is as Good as a Wink"
Humble Pie's "Rock On"

They all are of groups that have their origins in Mod culture, but they went from fast'n loud prototypical "power pop" and "freakbeat" to fine rock 'n roll that was supported by stellar live shows.

Nope, not Progressive at all!

Diego

Everything I write in this thread is shooting from the hip. I may have a different response tomorrow. That being said, a garage band is quite literally that - a band formed thanks to the influence of the Beatles, that practiced in garages, played in high school sock hops and local battle of the band competitions, etc. Sometimes they would record a 45 and died in obscurity, while other times their single would be picked up by a major label for distribution. Sometimes they would garner a hit, and that could lead to an album, often composed of several covers because their repertoire was not big enough or there was a rush to get the LP out to take advantage of the success of the 45. Etc.

It's a mid/late-1960s phenom, although I feel the term can be used in later eras. The era I'm talking about generally is considered "punk" from the 1960s idea of a snotty kid being a punk. All these bands sang universally about being done wrong by girls and other cliches like freedom to have long hair.

The "Nuggets" series of LPs is the most definitive collection of this music. Some were purely local or regional bands, while others had national reach (The Chocolate Watch Band and the Standells are two examples, plus the Music Machine as mentioned in another's post) but not much sustainable success.

RROLDSX

I remember watching the Guess Who (formerly called many different names involving Chad Allen) practise in a garage down the street. When I was 5 or 6 I had dreams of fronting my own band. Course I'd I would have had to learn an instrument more substantial than my toy xylophone. ��

rustyroger

Every major musical act owes something to various other artists that have influenced them, whether conciously or unconciously.
The Beatles made no secret they were influenced by many and various styles of artists, the Rolling Stones started by playing American South Blues, in fact they have some claim to popularising Black Music to White Americans who often didn't get to hear it on American stations in any areas with segregationist sympathies. On the other hand the Kinks had very British roots, which may explain why although undoubtedly a very talented group they didn't break into the American market anything like to the extent many other British bands did.
Punk as we know it over here came to the fore around 1975, following some damning editorials from our more hypocritical popular press. The Sex Pistols, Buzzcocks, the Clash and various fringe bands found themselves in demand as rebellious youth wanted to follow something their elders disapproved of.
The main point of early Punk bands was to play raw little rehearsed sounds as a reaction to the Prog Rock and big production Bands that were dominating the UK charts at the time. Of course the ones with genuine talent went on to become part of the establishment sound, but who can blame them for following the money?.

Roger.

MDchanic

"It wasn't very large
There was just enough room to cram the drums
In the corner over by the dodge
It was a fifty-four

"With a mashed up door
And a cheesy little amp
With a sign on the front said
"fender champ"
And a second-hand guitar
It was a stratocaster with a whammy bar

"We could jam in joe's garage
His mama was screamin'
His dad was mad
We was playin' the same old song

"In the afternoon 'n sometimes we would
Play it all night long
It was all we knew, 'n easy too
So we wouldn't get it wrong
All we did was bend the string like . . .

"Hey!
Down in joe's garage
We didn't have no dope or lsd
But a coupla quartsa beer

"Would fix it so the intonation
Would not offend yer ear
And the same old chords goin' over 'n over
Became a symphony

"We could play it again 'n again 'n again
'Cause it sounded good to me
One more time!

"We could jam in joe's garage
His mama was screamin',
"turn it down!"
We was playin' the same old song

"In the afternoon 'n sometimes we would
Play it all night long
It was all we knew, 'n easy too
So we wouldn't get it wrong
Even if you played it on a saxophone

"We thought we was pretty good
We talked about keepin' the band together
'n we figured that we should
'cause about this time we was gettin' the eye
From the girls in the neighborhood
They'd all come over 'n dance around like . . .

"So we picked out a stupid name
Had some cards printed up for a coupla bucks
'n we was on our way to fame
Got matching suits

"'n beattle boots
'n a sign on the back of the car
'n we was ready to work in a go-go bar
'One two three four
Let's see if you've got some more!'

"People seemed to like our song
They got up 'n danced 'n made a lotta noise
An' it wasn't 'fore very long
A guy from a company we can't name

"Said we oughta take his pen
'n sign on the line for a real good time
But he didn't tell us when
These 'good times' would be somethin'

"That was really happenin'
So the band broke up
An' it looks like
We will never play again...

"Guess you only get one chance in life
To play a song that goes like...

"'Turn it down!
Turn it down!
I have children sleeping here . . .
Don't you boys know any nice songs?'

"Well the years was rollin' by
Heavy metal 'n glitter rock
Had caught the public eye
Snotty boys with lipstick on

"Was really flyin' high
'n then they got that disco thing
'n new wave came along
'n all of a sudden I thought the time

"Had come for that old song
We used to play in "joe's garage"
And if I am not wrong
You will soon be dancin' to the . . .

"'The white zone is for loading and unloading only.
If you gotta load or unload, go to the white zone...'"

m371961

Buddy Holly and the Crickets. Now that was a garage band.
Led Zepplin 1 was great and brought a new way to play the old south blues. They were even sued for it later and had to give credit and royalties for it.
The Who was great for changing with the times and I suppose created rock opera. Head phones and Quadrophenia sent me tripping way before any artificial enhancements entered my head.
The Beatles made major shifts in their music and it was a shame they went separate ways.
That said, the only progressive I want in my life is in my radio station. I want to listen all day and not hear the same song twice.

oldcutlass

Burton Cummings and Randy Bachman, I enjoyed their music. They were not Punk, it was more like pop and psychedelic rock.

Diego

The Who video I posted is the prototype for "Tommy."

However, The Who was not the first to do it - the Pretty Things certainly did it before.

It's quite a fantastic album.

zeeke

Diego: Your definition needs some definition. Eric, Zappa is exactly what first came to mind when I read Diego's explanation. Zappa was a musical genius. He was also never overly famous. He seemed to keep to his roots, garage or not. Almost every band starts in a garage, basement or something of the sort. It's what the band evolves into either changing, sound, style, members or not, but everyone starts somewhere. I'm thinking what you meant was a band that never progresses from the garage. As stated by Eric CB's was a garage. Most of my best shows were in small clubs. L'amores, L'mores East, L'mores far east, Februarys, Hammerheads, Chevy's, Bowery Ball room, The Ritz, Irving Plaza, the list is long. About the only place I never saw a good show was The Beacon Theater, just wasn't a god place to see a show. Many bands never made it past this point, including the Sex Pistols. So the definition would have to be bands that never moved on from the garage. None of the bands I originally mentioned fit that description. Can I get a ruling from the group?

In all, it's good to see others pay attention and feel free to recommend bands you've picked up along the way. Diego mentioned a a band to me from the early 70's called Sir Lorde Baltimore. I'm in the just playing it through stage right now but I will tell you they can play. It's always good to explore other Avenues. I'm sure there is endless good stuff out there we've never heard so lets all put it out there.