csstrux

I expect it will get a whole lot worse before it gets better. Non interference would have likely already seen us through the worst, now we have trillions plus debts to deal with, and more legislation coming down the pipe that will castrate our economic effectiveness. Make you wonder WTF they are thinking.


NAS which winery are you working at?

wolfman98

Wall Street and the big banks are running like buisness as usual. It is always about the money and if they have to screw everybody to get it they will. Their greed got us into this mess and their greed will keep us there awhile yet til someone has the ***** to force the to play by the rules. what other buisness can you lose 40 billion in a quarter then turn around and pay yourself millions in bonuses for a job well done. getting the initial 750 billion from the government with no strings was the job well done i would hazard to guess. And how gullable was the government and congress to believe they would do the honorable thing and help out some of the little guys who could have used a loan or buisness to meet payrole?

dingusboy

Things are bad,and they're gonna get worse. That being said, Americans are resilient. We'll be around a lot longer than most give us credit for. I think there is much blame to go around for our current predicament - Banks, Big Corps, Gov. etc. But, I also think there is a great deal of blame to be placed on many Americans.

This is a society whose kids think a $300 Ipod is an item that needs to be upgraded yearly because the manufacturer keeps coming out with a new model. Some of us used to giggle at the frugality of our parents and grandparents who lived through the first depression. What they did know is that you must live within your means and always, always, always save what you can for that "rainy day". If my grandfather was alive he'd be laughing his a** off now. Many people are going to be hurt, not that they deserve to be. It's just a fact. But, we will get through this and learn important lessons about living within our means and not overextending on credit. In the mean time, you just need to keep your chin up, help someone in trouble if you can and keep laughing. I'd like to point out that many of the regulars on this board are doing just that on a daily basis. Cheers!

My442

Forget about "people are resilient", and "we will bounce back".

Think about the criminals in government that allowed millions of people to get screwed because of greed and deceit.

The fact that there are not huge protests and violence surprises me.

Millions of people will never retire now due to this crap.

The most dishonest people in the world are the ones supposedly making the rules.

csstrux

AMEN

hamm36

Quote:

Originally Posted by My442

The fact that there are not huge protests and violence surprises me.

1. American's have become lazy chair quarterbacks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by My442

Millions of people will never retire now due to this crap.

2. That is exactly what they want us to do - work while they live a life of luxury.

Quote:

Originally Posted by My442

The most dishonest people in the world are the ones supposedly making the rules.

3. Politicians (Congress) is full of lying lawyers make up golden parachutes for themselves while the not so middle class moves into poverty.

csstrux

Question is how to get the truth out there, and then deal with the people who have drunk the CoolAid. The reaction tends to be violent.

rockethound

ya the economy really sucks i work for a major automotive heating and cooling plant(radiators,heater cores,evaps,codensors and hvacs) in michigan. we went from 7 days a week 10hour days to 4 days a week 8 hours a day. they changed our over time from (mtwtf ) time and a half after 8 hours time and a half on sat and double on sunday to time and a half after 40 hours. for hourly workers. managment took a 5 percent pay cut team leaders and section leaders have had no cut backs and still getting their 40 hour. and yesterday they anonced that every pay check we were going to have to pay $112 dollars a pay check(biweekly) for our health insurance. witch sucks. so i'm getting things done around the house i just put in a new boiler insulated and have 26 out of 38 windows replaced thank fully we paid for every thing last fall before all the cut back. ya i have someting the goverment can stimulate! oh sorry guys did i say that.

dingusboy

When I said that Americans are "resilient" and that we will "bounce back" I didn't mean to imply that that government should do nothing about finding who was at fault and punishing them. However, it is not enough to say that it is all Congress' fault because they are lawyers and all lawyers lie. (Here, I have to admit that I am a lawyer and have heard that line for years.) Most of the CEO's that lead us to this predicament did so without the need for law degrees. I, like most of you, have tried to decipher what went wrong and how to best protect my family. The answers are not easy. Some of what we hear is news and some is for entertainment dressed up as news. This clip is probably one of the most insightful, but it comes from a comedy show.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/62203/the-...009#s-p1-so-i0

wolfman98

There is one thing that I have to agree with and that is there is a lot of blame to go around.Capitalism will work just fine but only if it has guidelines that everyone has to follow.This recession should not become a debate about republican and democratic ideaologies. All of government should be trying to fix the problem together and stop attacking each other because of party lines. Government here in Canada is no different than in the States , nothing but bickering back and forth. Here we have a Conservative led Parliment and their recovery plan is spending 40 billion . That would be like yours spending 400 billion. the thing obout up here is that the banks were not at risk of collapse since they did not buy a lot of those toxic mortgages so they did not lose as much money. The Bank of Canada is lending to the banks at .5% but the banks are lending out at 8-9%. That will help them but not the average Canadian or Small Buisness. Last year the Harper Government gave Big Buisness 50 billion in tax breaks and it did not increase jobs at all. So far this year we have lost 240,000 jobs and the are predicting 500,000 more before the end of the year. We have 1/10th the population of the U.S. so you can multiply that by 10 to get a comparison. Most economists say Canada will lose 750,000 jobs in 2009 , which would be like the U.S. losing 7,500,000. A lot of european countries are in the same boat , worse than the U.S. but Conservative Governments will probably make the recession last longer in those countries , including here , since they are inclined to wait for the trickle down approach. Eight years of George Bush showed us all how well that works. Keep Big Buisness and the Financial Markets happy and we will eventually get some crumbs off the table , but not before we are forced to eat less when we do recover. Chrysler yesterday theatened ( on Capital Hill ) to close their Canadian plants if the C.A.W. didn't give concessions in wages and benefits totalling $20.00 hourly. They just signed a new deal with G.M. but Chrysler says it's not good enough for them even though they are only paying 80 cents on the dollar right now. I don't know where this is going to end up but i know that as far as a plan for more efficient cars for the future Chrysler is way behind G.M. even. I hope my healthcare holds out cause I see the specialist on the 23 of this month and hopefully he can fix my neck. If not I may not work a what I like doing again and have to find a desk job that doesn't exist and I have no training for. I asked about retraining and they said it would have to be something that you could do physically and also something where there are job prospects for it in this area. My future looks bleak at best and I may need to find a small buisness I can start on my own down the road when things pick up.Re-invent myself when I should be looking at retireing in 12 years. It is hard to be optamistic so I will just keep plugging away at the Olds for now , at least it keeps my mind off things.

dingusboy

Agreed Wolfman

Olds64

I can't wait until the economy gets so bad that our entire country collapses like in Mad Max. Then I can legally dress like this guy.

wolfman98

I loved that movie , Mel Gibson' claim to fame. If you dress like that are you going to look as physically intimidating?

Olds64

They didn't call him Humungus for nothing!

geckonz08

well yeah guys you have got it bad -0% interest so no room to move and so the next brilliant scheme seems to be to print $1.2 trillion --and if that doesn`t work more will be printed --our new zealand dollar leapt 5cts yesterday because that big $ injection just made all the other dollars in your circulation worth less .
It may have started with fanny n freddie n unrepayable mortgages but globally it has spread like the plague.
We are getting it here to a lesser extent but the government is still looking to bring in people with trades skills .So, if things get too bad for you there , this is certainly a lovely place to live for a few yrs or a lifetime.fishing,hunting,skiiing etc etc --oh and a few oldsmobiles --yep just a few
If you seriously consider the above I would be happy to source some info. S%#t I just read the above and it sounds like I am some sort of immigration official NOPE --just a builder
all the best lads
mike

wolfman98

It is a global thing at least affecting countries that trade on the markets. at the recent G-20 meetings they rated the Canadian banks the healthiest. But still we lost about 83,000 jobs in Feb. that brings the total to around 323,000 since this started in Nov. we are so closly tied to American buisness when they trim jobs a lot of their Canadian employees are cut. U.S. Steel bought out Stelco Steel in Hamilton a few years ago and they just closed up shop and put 12,000 out of work. auto companies and parts makers also have been taking big hits. Our government is doing little to stimulate our economy , extending unemployment benefits for an extra 5 weeks being a conservative government they are just going to wait for big buisness to recover and start creating more jobs. $40 billion is what they are going to invest , hardly enough considering they can give big buisness 50 billion in tax cuts? Right now the biggest problem is getting AIG to work the way it should , although I think that they are so huge it's like trying to grab an octapus and all it's tenticles at the same time.

z11375ss

http://www.taxdayteaparty.com/teaparty.html All the men on this board are more qualified through life experience to sit on the President's Cabinet than any of the tax cheating choices he picked. We all know you can't spend more than you earn for very long without consequences. Attend a rally, save the country.

easytobedead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH9VwxIPD6k



tell me what your thinking??

442much

At least our conservative government is saving money. They've cut the amount they give to scientists and scientific study, because everybody knows the world is 6,000 years old and it all started with Adam & Eve.

Also, we used to be the only G7 country that was paying off our debt and was running a balanced budget. The last government had set up a $100 billion rainy day fund in case things got bad and our current government pissed it away giving tax breaks to big businesses and trying to buy votes.

We find they spent all the money and we'll have to go into deficit. Our banks only rated number one in the world is because of regulations that were in place. The banks just told the government when they were offered $125 billion "Thank, but no thanks". And now the gov is crowing how Canadian banks ranked number 1 in the world while the next G7 country was Germany at 39, the USA at 40 and the UK a 44. They did nothing to get us in the number 1 position. It was the regulations of the previous goverments that got us there. Can't wait for the next election.

2blu442

Yes I went to a tea party, I liked the idea. It's being called a partisan act, but the ideas and concerns expressed are for our country's future and could/should cross party lines. Whatever we each believe in, we should stay informed and tell our representatives what we think. The only way our country can work is if we're all involved. John

442_Mustang

I'm a body repair man and I'm on a flat rate. A year ago I was turning around 90 to 100 hours a week. 2 weeks ago I turned 7.6 hours. I don't think people stopped wrecking their cars. They stopped fixing em. :-(

wolfman98

I have heard about this for about the last 20 years , and must say that I am supprised that it seems to have just magically appeared recently. The first step in this approach was a free trade agreement between the US and Canada. This agreement though still in place has led to fighting between governments who still add tarrifs to products for what they call unfair trade practices. Lumber going from Canada to the US is a good example of that. The US government have higher stumpage fees for logging companies in the US so the complain when Canada can offer cheaper luimber and wood shingles etc. Well we are larger in area and have less than 1/10 the population and huge areas of forested lands that have never been touched so it was never needed to increase stumpage fees at the same rate as in the US , though since the US complaints they have been increased in some areas. Around here if you are a small operation it is no longer worthwhile to pay to cut on government lands unless you are a huge company.Our local pulp and paper company which is foriegn owned is considering packing up and moving as the costs are too high. Mexico has benefited most with the north American free trade agreement but look at their wages. Along the south Texas border their are a string of huge companies that set up shop their so they can shuffle Mexicans in the back door to work their cheap and then go home to Mexico at the end of the day making great money in their eyes. Either you cut all ties with free trade in North America or you have one dollar for all three countries. Over time this will stabalize Mexico's economy to equal that of the US and Canada. You will find a lot less Mexicans trying to sneak into the US for greener pastures and illeagal immigration will be easier to control. At least the propponents of a North American Union "believe this can happen". The EEC was originally propposed in the 1950's to strenghten it's defences against eastern block countries and this was led by the US who had a large contingent of military forces throughout Europe. Now that the wall is down the EEC has been trying to stabalize some of those eastern block countries especially after what happened in Yugoslavia. The developement of the United Nations was a forum in which nations could debate and reach conclusions on how to deter another global war.But as in any political forum it is difficult to reach agreements with different ideologies and political agendas ie. US vs Russia. Ever since the second world war one country has been considered the "sleeping giant" and now they have started to stir. being in a den with a hibernating bear is always a risk but when it starts to awake it can scare the heck out of anyone. Of course that "sleeping giant" is China and the western world is very concerned about how it will act when it comes to full life.Even though it is a communist country we still try to have friendly relations with them because they own a very large part of the US and EEC countries. The Chinese have become very ambitious of late and now that Hong Kong is a part of China they have a huge influence in world markets. The worries about Cuba and the US government allowing more travell there is like a mosquito distracting you while a 747 is headed right at you. The Chinese have hacked into most government computers , even the Pentagon. They are probably even able to shut down the North American electrical grid. Look what Hitler did with just a few million soldiers china has 1.4 billion people and they are trying to economize their whole country which is a huge undertaking but achievable at it's current rate within 30-50 years. They will have the world's largest economy and the world's largest military so if we want to preserve our freedoms we may have to form more united alliances because no one knows how "nice" China will be in 30 years. They could be like the US " trying to create a world that is more like themselves" only communist and not democratic. They are not stupid or lazy or poor and they have nuclear capabilities so the world has to really be dilligent in keeping focused. Terrorism keeps us distracted and china says nothing one way or the other. 30 years from now I want them on my side.

68conv455

Rock N Roll John (2blu442). I'm glad you went. Too many of us are P/Oed but couldn't take the time to go. Too bad the spirit of your motives were'nt conveyed in the media.

easytobedead

went to the 1 in Chicago around 2000 people {: was fun! man cow was there

2blu442

Thank you for your encouragement 68conv455, my job has vacation time that I can use and I was able to take off work for a few hours. Yes, some of the reporters are saying the only reason people went to the rally is that they are racist. My Daddy, God bless his soul, raised me right. I don't care if the president had purple skin he's a man who has just as much value as I or any other man does. If I disagreed with the direction he was taking the country in I'd speak out no matter what his race, gender, religon, sexual orientation, political party, etc. etc. and I believe that's what our founding fathers have called for us to do, participate whenever and where ever we can. Keep the faith bro. John

daves62

went to the tea party in Boise
looked to me like most of the same type of people that voted for are prez
were there "what are you rebelling against, what do you got"

csstrux

Wanted to go, but when you are on the road... A man I respected who sells real estate said it best. Treat everyone as if they are green. Green is the color of money, and in a true democracy that is how votes are cast. every time you patronize a business you are voting for their success. when you boil everything down to the basics, the world is run on money, and everyone represents money. How productive they are will determine how much they will be worth, or how much they will cost. Race has nothing to with conservative values. True conservatism transcends race, religion, gender, and gender bias, as well as moderate political views. It was nice to see both sides coming together to stand up for their freedom, and financial well being, as well as for the generations to come. I was not there in person, but was listening on XM and was there in spirit. Hats off to the conservative dems who had the courage to stand with the "enemy" and fight for freedom and fiscal responsibility. Well represented. I forget how many hundreds of thousands of people nationwide...one arrest. Wish I could have been there.

jensenracing77

the tea parties made me feel that there is still hope for our country.

may god bless our great country.

hamm36

It looks like the bate and switch to me. The "Shell Game" in a back allie.

Only "change" I have seen is they are very open and letting everyone see them paying back their back door supporters with my money, in the name of "stimulus."
I herd about a "Tea Party" the other day on talk radio, but nothing on the local news?
I guess we are still blinded by the light of the new saviour.

gearheads78

Me too....There where probably 5000 at the one I was at. I think it finally a beginning and people might start to wake up. It sure nice nice seeing how many like minded people were around me.

wolfman98

I did not realize that there wer so many people making over 250,000 or was that 300,000 per family? Federal taxes will only increase for these people effective 2011. So everybody must be complaining about their state taxes.

2blu442

wolfman98 that number is not accurate nor is that the only reason people participated in the tea party. I'm trying real hard to not offend those who have different political views than I. If you'd like I will send you an email sharing what I see our government doing and what my concerns are for the Unites States and our future generations. John

P.S. the statements under gearheads78 picture were recently made by our department of homelands security.... and that they need to keep an eye on those people.... as they may be dangerous.

wolfman98

Please do P.M. me about anything at all. I can understand everyone's concern and as far as homeland's security's list is concerned remember the 60's?

2blu442

wolfman98
I just sent you a PM with some of my thoughts and concerns. Feel free to contact my email address in that message with any questions or for more details. John

gearheads78

Acctually they have already dropped that number twice and it will continue to go down. And as of last week the air I exhale is deemed dangerous to the enviroment. They can't wait to start the cap and trade on the friggin air. If we don't get a handle on these guys now our country as we know it is gone.

2blu442

Richard,
The statistics I've seen are that 34% of the people making between $6,000 and $12,000 annually smoke ciggarettes and 30% of those with an income between $12,000 and $25,000 do as well. I don't smoke but I've been told that the Federal tax recently went up by $1.05 per pack. If that income level is feeling the bite of a tax increase it's just a matter of time before we all are getting it.

I work for the government in the Department of the Interior. The new assistant to the Secretary of the Interior is way into the cap and trade thing. I fear it's going to get worse very soon. John

wolfman98

Made the mistake of sending it as reply and was 1225 characters so it deleted it. I will use your email tomorrow. Smokes here are 10.00 pack gas is 4.50 a gallon and 22 buck for 12 beer. don't feel to bad

Kennybill

Hello All, I have been laid off for 10 weeks now. I'm calling it, "pre-retirement." I went from a being a guy who worked to much to not working. The first 4 weeks it bothered me not working but I am getting use to it now. The Steel Mill I worked at is completely down and no one has a clue when or if it will restart. I feel bad for the younger Guys with Families. Being near 59 y/o I plan on riding it out. I hope to go back to work for a few more years but if I don't it's not the end of the world. I became a Grandpa for the first time 9 months ago and I really love it. I baby sit on Friday's for my Daughter (the Lawyer married to a Lawyer.) He is crawling and I am wore out at the end of the day. I have been also working around my house and clearing some the 5 acres I have. I will have bigger garden this year. I've been so busy I haven't even looked at an Oldsmobile. I hope to get my convertible on the road soon. Lets wish for it to pick-up so the people with the Families can take care of them. Later, Ken

wolfman98

Your situation is a lot like many both there and here. They shut down U.S.Steel in Hamilton and put 12,000 out on the street. Funny thing is the pipeline that is being built from Alberta tarsands to the U.S. and 30% of steel from U.S. 20% from canada and 50% from India Steel from India is 166 dollars cheaper per ton than from the U.S. They say the do not subsidize the steel in India but how could it be that much cheaper even with shipping it all the way from India Personally I think it should be 50-50 U.S. and canada , at least we have fair trade agreements in place but it's hard to compete with cheap steel that is subsidized. I am off work for 9 months now and no light at the end of the tunnel yet so I have been doing what i can to make ends meet. I may have to take over the organic farm buisness that my dad had but he passed away a year ago. If I lived close to you I could help you out with your clearing and garden work. I also have Deere brush and orchard mower and 15' manure spreader i use for organic compost that I still make like dad did. The tiller cuts 6' wide and has 48 tines. 1 pass usually does the trick.

Bluevista

Hey Kennybill, doing Canfield?, bringing the rugrat if you do?

My girls are 18 and 23, I can wait to be a grandpa, my little bro's daughter just gave him a surprise grandbaby. There are four new babies in my family in a little less than a year and I see pregos and infants everywhere.
It's a theory but I think I may know what people do when the economy slows down.