68conv455

I was wondering how long it would be before someone broke the rules.
It didn't take long.

wolfman98

Funny you would mention diesel cause I worked for Asplundh And drove various bucket trucks , some diesel and some gas. At it's peak gas hit a high here of $1.47.9 , diesel was $1.62 . At $1.50 that would be $6.00 for an American gallon $6.75 for an Imperial gallon which is what we use up here. A lot of independent truckers struggled and some ultimately failed.A lot of our services increased because of the higher costs in shipping goods or providing things like power.Asplundh was locked into a 3 year agreement so that ends up costing company profits as it would hundreds of smaller companies and independents .We just had a 9 1/2% increase in power , the second in the past year. My electric bill went up to 241.00 a month. They have to apply to the provincial government to raise prices and the increasing cost of fuel was a principal arguement. A barrel of oil went up to $147.00 a barrel so of course services will increase. Then the bottom dropped out of oil and it went below $40.00 . The increase went ahead anyway. have you ever noticed that the day a barrel of oil increases the price of gas goes up , but when it drops it usually takes a few days for the price to drop back down? The gas companies use the excuse that they still have stocks of the more expensive oil in reserve so it takes time to use that up in their refineries but the seem to always be out of cheaper oil when the price goes up? Government is the problem in the current downturn because they deregulated controls on Wall Street.After that Fanny May and Freddie Mac were able to buy up peoples mortgages and trade them on the market. Subprime mortgages should have never been allowed and most average and lower income people only saw the opportunity to afford to buy a house without fully understanding the risk , and I am sure the banks did not tell them there was the possability their payments could double or triple within a year.Anyone who has ever signed a mortgage agreement with a bank knows that there are 15 pages or more of small print and you sign in about 5 or 6 places.How many of us have sat in the loan officers office and read the entire thing before we put our john henry? they just give you a quick explanation if any at all. Did they really understand their mortgage would be bought and sold multiple times? And if it was, the price like stock, would increase in price . Then thousands and tens of thousands now hundreds of thousands foreclosures. it was a system bound to fail because banks were lending to people who could afford the subprime rate but nothing higher. So do you blame the people for chasing the American dream , or the banks for lending to average to lower income people , Wall Street for buying and selling peoples mortgages with free reign. I think ultimately it comes back to the government because they had a hands off policy . Capitalism will work but only if we set some guidelines , it's called "fair play". It's like the used car salesman who will sell you a car full well knowing that it had been in an accident and written off by the insurance company , then bought and fixed up . Then sold to an unsuspecting buyer never being informed of the risk. There were some unfortunate accidents that cost people their lives before regulations were put in place to protect the consumer. You can now check out any used vehicle to see if it was in an accident.We have government for a reason , they are supposed to represent the people and protect them while allowing everyone the right and ability to climb the ladder of success without hinder. But there are rules we all need in place to allow that to happen. We need government , but it has to be GOOD government!!

csstrux

For the most part we are on the same page, I just believe it needs to be knocked back down to what it was originally intended to be. Small and unintrusive, there strictly to protect the interests of the people. I also believe that if you have no stake you have no say, but that would be considered callas and unfeeling. Its not, it is practicle and sustainable. We are not on opposing sides here. I'm not familiar with Canada, or it's economic structure, beond health care, and a bit in trucking. I can tell you that down here, a large part of our energy problem, as well as the housing crisis we have and are facing stems back to policies that were put in place back in the 70's. Yes greed takes part, but check out the "represantatives" and their interists. Who stands to gain the most if we fall for the global warming farce, whitch finally more and more promanent scientists are finally comming out and speaking up against. Probably too late, but now we have something to stand on to fight back. As if the last few winters are'nt enough proof. We need to sit on theese people who have been "entrusted" to protect our interists. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, and too much has been handed to the government in times like these. It has and will continue to burn us. We can no longer afford to keep things like this at arms length. We must get involved in order to ensure we get a "good government". As an asside, I don't disagree with the concept of going green, I embrase it whole heartedly. I am against cap and trade, as well as government mandated "green" policies. I can tell you from experience in the trucking industry that they are counterprouctive, and opressively expensive. I have tried to state what I believe without using inflamitory terms or partisan politics. I meen no disrespect to any "side" I have my beliefs though and will stand by them. Politics aside, What is good for the country is good for its citisens. From everything I have learned, and seen that does not nesacerily hold true for a country's government. Oversimplified? Yes, but I was ADD before they knew what that was and as such was learning phonix when my classmated were learning "real english". I'm sorry if I am not making myself clear, or have offended any one. I don't have any more to offer to this conversation.

wolfman98

I am with you there it has to be what it was intended when it was set up...A government OF the people By the people and FOR the people.We need alternative sources to heat our homes , to commute to and from work and supply us with power for our offices homes and communication needs. The country moves by truck and rail and shipping and there is where we will still need to use our oil.We can change some things just by conserving and being energy efficient.Recycling what ever we can , creating new American born industry to put people to work , regular people who spend most of what they make. Then we keep the truck ,trains and ships rolling and supply the GOODS demand.I do like your style man and I am with you on having too much government cause it only creates ( RED TAPE ) Let the people do what they do best WORK.

OLD SKL 69

Well, getting away from politics and back to the original thread, things here on Long Island aren't going very well either. As the fallout from Wall Street continues, more and more people are getting laid off everyday. I do not work on wall street, or any where near it, but I was laid off back in September. I was lucky to land not only another job but a better job on 1/9/09. Whew and thank the Lord! Two kids and a stay at home mom to take care of as well as inflated New York taxes is no easy deal. I try to stay optimistic, but I still think this is going to get worse before it gets better.

citcapp

Met with one of my larger clients of Friday to talk about up and comming construction projects. Doesn't look very good from their standpoint. Several large empty office buildings in our local area and no takers on leases means no new constuction and minimal tenant improvement clients for the existing buildings. No credit availible and the banks and lending companies are not even loaning to companies that want to move or construct new buildings. Somehow this lending/credit logjam has to be broken. From the looks of things we have not hit bottom yet, maybe in 6-8 months we will and then start rebuilding the economy with a real base instead of a false one. We need to stop being a consumer based economy and become a manufacturing based economy like we used to be.

Dapapadon

I agree on that one!

Don

OLD SKL 69

x3

Kennybill

Hello All, I'll try to stay on the topic. To Old Sch 69, Good for you. Sometimes there's a silver lining in the clouds. I went thru this same situation from 1979 to 1985. My Ex-wife was a stay at home Mom and we had two Kids. A lot of weight on a guy's shoulders. In some ways I look back on that time as one of the best periods of my life. I learned to do a lot of things to support my Family. Being born in 1950 I am "old school" myself. I never believed in being in debt. I have never bought a car I didn't pay cash for and I have bought 6 cars new, 2 were college Graduation presents for my Kids (Son-Teacher, Daughter-Lawyer) plus I paid thier college. I'll always "preached" to my Kids plus the young Guys at work, save your money, plus pay cash for everything, "except your house." Ofcourse most never listened. Giving credit cards to these young Kids is like giving drugs out, some take it and get hooked. This situation will work itself out eventually, always does, but some will lose alot. One has to keep dedicated and keep plugging away. I did any work people wanted done. I might of not made much per hour but I then worked more hours per day. Adversity makes most stronger, a lot of the other's "cry in thier beer." I was always against NAFTA and I believed the only way to create wealth was to take a raw product, add value to it. Hmmm, sounds like manufacturing to me. One just can't pass around service's. You have to create a product. Good Luck All, Ken

csstrux

Amen

Jamesbo

Oldsguy

Jamesbo, that was funny but so close to true. I understand the sentiment wanting to get back to an industrial base here in the U.S.A but I don't think it will happen so let's all be consumers of good 'ol American products. Everyone get more tattoos and drink more beer and visit a hoo.......well, never mind on the last one, unless you are single I guess. I don't want to get anyone in trouble here.

Kennybill

Recession is when your Neighbor is out of work, depression is when you are out of work.

citcapp

I try to buy american. But it is against the law to run around naked as all clothes sold are made out of country. Only one textile mill left in the United States.

OLD SKL 69

Help stimulate the American economy by spending your stimulus check...

My name is Elliot Spitzer, the former governor of New York, and I approve this message!

aka client #009

agtw31

out of a crew of 40,8 are gone this week,including me.

i knew it was coming since sept,so i have a little nest egg saved up.

by the way, i have stuff for sale in classifieds.

Lady72nRob71

I have the advantage here. I can drink large quantities of US beer, but some more costly stuff is better to be rented...

I still wear some old stuff from the 80s that were made in USA. Good quality, because it is still in good shape and looks good, just - uh, retro!
My ex GF had some stuff so old, it had tags in it from a US womens clothing union. Ironically, it was still in good shape, even the elastic.
Stuff I bought 3 years ago that was made overseas either has no more elastic or did not survive the washings... Some was so crappy, it fell apart in a few months and I am not hard on clothes. The $3 soccer shorts at Academy were like that; I needed 3 pair per game...

We really need to make stuff over here again, and make it good like they used to!

AGTW31, sorry to hear the bad news... I wish you (and all the job hunters) the best of luck!!

442much

The depression of the 1930's was created because countries practiced protectionism during a ressession. They thought that by stopping trade, and only spending at home they would save domestic jobs. One country would try to protect its own and others retaliated and soon trade wars developed. Pretty soon a world wide depression was created out of a ressession. I hope we learned something from history and don't do the same thing again.

Oldsguy

Probably not.

wolfman98

Where the heck is FDR when you need him.

citcapp

Some learn some don't lets hope one out ways the other

Kennybill

The Great Depression was triggered by a sudden, total collapse in the stock market. The stock market turned upward in early 1930, returning to early 1929 levels by April, though still almost 30 percent below the peak of September 1929.[8] Together, government and business actually spent more in the first half of 1930 than in the corresponding period of the previous year. But consumers, many of whom had suffered severe losses in the stock market the previous year, cut back their expenditures by ten percent, and a severe drought ravaged the agricultural heartland of the USA beginning in the summer of 1930.

In early 1930, credit was ample and available at low rates, but people were reluctant to add new debt by borrowing. By May 1930, auto sales had declined to below the levels of 1928. Prices in general began to decline, but wages held steady in 1930, then began to drop in 1931. Conditions were worse in farming areas, where commodity prices plunged, and in mining and logging areas, where unemployment was high and there were few other jobs. The decline in the US economy was the factor that pulled down most other countries at first, then internal weaknesses or strengths in each country made conditions worse or better. Frantic attempts to shore up the economies of individual nations through protectionist policies, such as the 1930 U.S. Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act and retaliatory tariffs in other countries, exacerbated the collapse in global trade. By late in 1930, a steady decline set in which reached bottom by March 1933.

In the late 20's people were buying stocks "on margrin," buying stock wthout paying for it at purchase-hoping it will continue rising. Market drops, they get a margrin call to pay the drop in price. Buying on margin involves taking out a partial loan from one's broker in order to cover a larger investment than one's capital could directly cover. A margin call most often occurs when the amount of actual capital the investor has drops below a set percent of the total investment. A margin call may also be triggered if the broker changes their minimum margin requirement —- the absolute minimum percentage of the total investment that one must have in direct equity. I see similarities in the problem we are in now because I home loans, no equitiy, AMR's, hidden fee's. Basicly were in a similar period, now people are in the saving/hoarding money. Ken

geckonz08

love it

yes guys she is a global one ok .
why , way south in little new zealand and across the water in Australia , all is not well.
I am in the building/construction game and were it not for the work I get from Insurance company claims , I would be very concerned. Currently about 3-4 days per week and that is more than a lot .
One thing which confuses me is how our $nz has remained so low compared to the $us , when the USA is in worse shape ? Means I can`t look to buy any car parts at present --could be a blessing !!
good luck guys ,one in all ---2yrs ? should be coming out the other side??
mike

citcapp

The fear mongers (news papers & tv news) do not help either. They need to sprinkle good news in with the bad as well. There are companies still hiring and we need to always have hope. It will get better, can't say how soon but it will. To those who have lost their jobs I wish you good luck in finding a new one. Don't give up.

daves62

Wow I'm depressed

dhoff

I hope that someday we are not telling the stories of the old days when you had to put your best old junk tire on to go a few more miles down the road.

csstrux

I haven't been listening the last couple days, but last I heard they are proposing tariffs on steel already, Won't mention names, but you might want to check it out.

442much

The President said today that he is not interested in protectionist policies and Canada agrees. The US Steel industry had insisted on it and we questioned its validity under NAFTA. There were some rumblings on this side that if tariffs were placed on Canadian goods then we would do the same to US goods and should rethink the suppy of natural gas and oil if that happens. Those rumblings by the New Democratic Party (socialists) were opposed by both the Liberals and Conservatives . The NDP have never held power.

Right now, under NAFTA if there is an oil shortage, Canada still has to supply the same amount of oil and gas to the US even if Canadians need the oil and gas here. So NAFTA is a double edged sword. Also, no one wants a trade war between the two largest trading partners in the world, especially now. $1 million dollars crosses the border every minute. Looks like everything will continue as usual which should help the economies rather than hurt them.

geckonz08

Thats right and it`s not only the canadians who are gonna get grumpy .The E.U has threatened its own backlash and my guess is Asia won`t be too far behind.Can easily become a tit for tat game . You need to be self sufficient in all product and not at all dependent on export .Other than The inuit ,pygmies and a few other lost tribes it doesn`t work .

wolfman98

Yeah I heard that , any new infrastucture projects with stimulous money. A lot of steel comes from Canada < which is the U.S 's largest trading partner.This will help the U.S. a couple of years or more down the road as they may have to reopen some of the steel mills that were shut down.When I worked for Case International out west I was in the United Steel Workers of America union , there was a large steel mill in Regina , saskatchewan and the union represented a large cross mix of occupations. I don't think that starting tarrif wars is a good idea in the recovery plan.Putting people to work who are more likely to spend the money they earn is the way to go. Those who forget the mistakes of the past are condemned to repeat it.Canada has lost hundreds of jobs in the oil industry ie operations at the tarsands are grinding to a stop due to the low price of oil.It is expensive to get the oil from the sands and right now it is not profitable.We are in the same pickle when it comes to manufacturing everything comes from Asia or other cheap labor countries.Someone like Bill Gates makes me angry when last year he lobbied the government to increase the # of foreign workers he could import because he claimed there were not enough qualified U.S. programers.he failed to mention that all his imported programers are paid less than their U.S. counterparts even though in his eyes they are more qualified? And now Microsoft is anounceing layoffs , I wonder if they are Americans or foreigners? Maybe he is just pissed cause he is not the richest man in America anymore.

csstrux

I'm glad to hear someone is finally pulling their head out! hopefully we can pound some sence into these bozos that think because they were elected to office, they suddenly know everything about everything.

Oldsguy

I sure hope things can turn around. Time will tell I guess.

wolfman98

True they have never held power federally but have still managed to do good things for the country even if only leading by example on a provincial level. I can't think of any party that has been good for the whole country in my 51 years. Parliment Hill is more like a childcare facility for the Autistic and hard to handle cases.

442much

They had some good ideas, like health care for all, but luckily it was the Liberals that were in power. They gave us that without nationalizing everything else.

For me, the NDP are far too far to the left. The current bunch in power are too far to the right for me. They are not traditional conservatives. They are Neo-conservatives! The Liberals are more central however I'll wait to see what this crop does. I am a Pierre Trudeau fan. He was a true patriot and not a crook like Mulrooney. One thing that Trudeau said that is true even today. He told the members of parliment, "50 feet from Parliment Hill and you're just a bunch of nobodies"

wolfman98

Trudeau was the last decent P.M. we have had , The current one is an idiot as far as I am concerned. That stupid grin drives me crazy , and he caused the last rucus before xmas with that stupid budget trying to get rid of his opponents by restricting fundraising contributions from essentially the grass roots people. Sounded more like third world polotics , too bad we couldn't have impeached him. Mulrooney I fear I might shoot if I saw him and had a gun in my hand. The Liberals can't agree amongst themselves about anything and the N.D.P. have way - way - way too many agendas on the go and so would end up partly acheiving little bits here and there ...just too much on their plate from too many interest groups .

toro68

I lossed my part-time job at Maine Cottage, Jan of 2009. But I am VERY lucky I still have my full-time job at L.L. Bean.

jensenracing77

has not affected me yet. orders looks to be slowing down where i work in about June. i work on 3 and 4 wheelers on the side and i am having to turn people away from to much business. i can't keep up with it being a side job.

wolfman98

well U.S.Steel closed their mill in hamilton Ont. , 12,000 out of work. It used to be Stelco Steel which was canadian owned but it was bought out by U.S.Steel a few years ago and I think they decided that no stimulus money was going to be used buying steel from Canada even though like many companies here is U.S. owned. It is hitting both sides of the border.

Jamesbo

Did anyone see the news about U.S. banks taking government money and making construction loans in China, India and Dubai?

Now that really helps out the economy?

I fear the inmates have completely taken over the asylum.

NAS Backyard

So far so good at the winery I work at. We are worldwide. I just got a 60 cent raise and a modest bonus next month. They say (our bosses) that our industry is a little more resilent than others. We make beverage alcohol, whos going to quit drinking that? But we have gates and someday they might not open. But for now I will stay positive and keep on trying to live within my means. I'm looking for seat covers (blue or red) on e bay right now for the Olds, 25-70.00 in green only so far.....