f-85

Well im glad some of the other members here have stepped up and had a voice. I think its important for us to stand up for something we believe in!

f-85

OK look at that site. Do you really want classicoldsmobile to be like the PY forum?

Dapapadon

Me being just a car guy I shouldn't say anything. Even though I had my first 66 Cutlass in 1974 when I was 16. And I can't really count the 84 Omega I had or the 88 Cutlass my girlfriend had in the 90's because they didn't have true Oldsmobile engines. Just those darn corporate 4 cyclinders GM forced Oldsmobile to use in the 80's. And the 3 Oldsmobiles I have now are offset by the Chevy's I own. But let me get this straight....

Guys can pull a perfectly good orginal engines from 40's, 50's & early 60's cars to install a 350 or 455 and that's cool. But never a 330 cause those are only good for thier cranks. (Sorry, I like the 330's, had to through that in)

I can rip out my original steel brake and fuel lines and replace them with Stainless Steel, that GM never used, because SS in better.

I can use a Buick, Pontiac, Chevy or even a Ford 9" rearend to replace the original 10" Olds in my 67 and that's cool.

I can replace all my original supension parts with after market because that stuff is better. And through out my steering box for one from a late model Jeep and I'm ok.

I should pull the Jetaway trans. from my 67 because it's really a junkaway. And I can install anything from a turbo 350 (I plan to) up to a 4L80 E or a 5 or 6 speed and I'm cool!

I can yank my points and do an electronic conversion because it's better. Or use an HEI and toss my original distributor and air cleaner (cause it won't fit with the HEI) in the trash and I'm being "Classic."

So when I find the 69 I'm looking for I plan to save the original hood and use one for a 70 OAI from VFN or Thornton's. I haven't seen anyone use the "Classic" foul on that one, but is it? Doesn't matter to me, I plan to do it.

So if I rebuild a big block I can toss my heads for new Edelbrocks, use Pontiac pistons and a Ford rear main seal. Even a billet crank, aftermarket valve train, intake, carb and headers. Just so long as I use a 1965 design block I'd be "Classic", right?

If I had a 72 Cutlass I could replace the rear quarters with ones from China and still be ok. I think I could get bumpers from China too!

Now here's one for ya: Could I put a V6 Vortec from a 94 Bravada in my 67? It's a corporate engine but it came in an Oldsmobile. I remember when the street rod trend in the 80's was for V6 Buick engines due to gas prices. Gas prices are iffy now. Maybe I should do the V6 corporate swap. But if I can use a corporate engine, remember my 84 had a corporate engine, why can't I use the best available corporate engine, the LS series. Oh yeah, it never came in an Oldsmobile because they quit making them. So I wouldn't be "Classic."

I'll get off my soap box. I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of non-classic things going on. And even the so called hardcore Olds guys participate. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone. It's doesn't make since to me that all this other non-classic stuff is condoned, but the LS guys get ragged on.

And F-85, you pegged me right. I like my Oldsmobiles, but I am a car guy. If the right Mopar came my way I'd make room for it, even if an Olds had to go.

Don

justinj

Nothing against whatever people want to do to their own cars, but to me, Oldsmobile is the Rocket engine and the Olds styling - that has always been unique to the brand. This site used to be all about that - any time someone came on talking about how they were going to drop in a SBC they'd be shown the error of their ways... The flavor of this site has changed in the past little while.

I just don't think LS engines are "Classic Oldsmobile" by any stretch of the imagination.

nickd

Great idea I actually love to see LS swaps because soon I will do one :-)P

TK-65

So only real Oldsmobiles came with V8s. The Buick powered V6 cars, as early as 1964, and the Chevy I-6 cars of the 60s are not true Oldsmobiles.

firefrost gold

performance years is a great site . Very good info on there . Have got lots of help and sold and traded parts every bit as good or better than classic olds.com

Dapapadon

So you're using the name of the forum to justify your way of thinking? I never said they were "Classic". Just a GM engine progression. And I pointed out that corporate engines were used in Oldsmobiles as far back as 84. All of the late model Oldsmobiles have corporate engines. So since Oldsmobiles advertising department never called those "Rocket" engines are they the next to get the boot from "Classic Oldsmobile"? Sorry, your way of thinking doesn't make since to me.

And I agree that the SBC swaps are not appropriate because they're the same engine generations. But explain to me why it's "Classic" to put a late model smog 455 that has to be rebuilt to make any power in a 1955 Olds 88, but it's taboo to put an LS in a 1971 Cutlass??? If GM was still biulding Oldsmobiles some form of corporate engine would be in them.

Don

justinj

I don't think that... The Rockets mean Olds to me, but I get that there were other configurations available. And yes, I think a 455 in anything is cool.

There's a pretty big difference between an engine that came factory or from the dealer back in the day than pulling an engine out of a late model Silverado or something and dropping it in your Olds. It's a different aesthetic. I don't have a problem with anyone doing that to their own car, but I thought this site was about keeping it Olds.

The weirdest thing was to see people talking about reliability, great mileage and all the supposed advantages of new engines on a 'classic car' site. Seriously, if you want a warranty, go buy a Prius. Obviously, this is just one guy's opinion, and we all know opinions are like a$*holes... But it shouldn't be a big surprise to anyone that on a 'classic car' site there's some $&it talking of late model junk.

-Justin

RAMBOW

I think what you meant to say, they would be shown the door and shoved through it after their first post...

Personally I'm glad that has changed.

z11375ss

Everything in moderation.

redoldsman

If you don't like a thread, why the hell do you open it? We used to have an ignore feature on here back in the "Norm days" and I used it. Apparently we don't have it anymore. I do think there have been times some folks doing conversions have been hard on the Olds engines. I think RIchard did the right thing by creating a spot for these threads. Enough is enough. This negative crap needs to stop. There are more important things to do. Get a life.

MDchanic

I've been keeping my big trap shut, but I think I've got an in here.

This site is "Classic Oldsmobile," right?
Now, this site doesn't have a "mission statement" (which I think is good - I hate 'em), so the closest thing to a definition of what the site is all about is its name: "Classic Oldsmobile."

So what does "Classic Oldsmobile" mean?
From what I'm reading here, I think it means a lot of different things to different people.
I think we can all agree (mostly) on what "Oldsmobile" means.
"Classic," though very often misused, actually has a very definite meaning:
The Classic Car Club of America defines a classic as:
By these standards, the vast majority of Oldsmobiles ever built were not "classics." They were just cars.
The 442s will probably be official classics one day, and probably a few others, but let's not delude ourselves here - these were just regular old American cars used to drive from Point A to Point B. They had good points and bad points, but they were all just cars, and when they were common on the road, you'd have a tough time picking them out of the crowd, whether watching them go by or driving them.

In their day, they were comfortable, reasonably powerful, and reliable, but so were Buicks and Pontiacs and Chryslers and Mercurys.

Sure, Jensen can say that he can do what he wants to his '02 truck because it's "not a classic," but c'mon fellas, neither are most of our cars, even now, and certainly NONE of them were when they were nine years old.
They were just cars.

So what does "Classic Oldsmobile" mean?
If it means to deal only with Oldsmobiles that are classics, then where do we draw the line? A '02 Aurora is no more valuable or classic than Jensen's '02 truck. Personally, I give a little chuckle whenever I see a member ask a question about a post-'76 Olds, because I remember when they came out, how they were obviously crap, with plastic everywhere and those black masks around the edges of the glass panels to hide the fact that the parts didn't fit together, and how all the cars of all the divisions were obviously identical, not to mention underpowered and pigs, and none of them could ever possibly be worth anything to anyone.
I honestly, personally, do not believe that they are classics, or that they should be allowed on this site, but I don't say anything because I know my opinion is obnoxious and rude, and I have to admit that those cars are now in the range of being "old," even though they're not classics.

So what about the previous generation?
I swore years ago that I would never own a car built after 1970 because of all the emissions nonsense.
I wasn't able to hold out, and, in fact, my "Classic Olds" right now is a 1973 model. As far as I'm concerned, it's an old car, but FAR from being a classic, and would have no place on any site truly devoted to "classics."

Okay, how about the generation before that?
Well, that's got the '68 to '72 A-bodies in it, so it MUST be a classic, right.
Bulls*^t.

I remember having a huge store of '50's-era trim pieces (from another make) that we had blundered into, and we couldn't GIVE that stuff away because nobody wanted to collect those crappy cars from the fifties - they weren't "real" antiques.

As far as I'm concerned, "Classic Oldsmobile" shouldn't apply to any model after 1948, and even then it's iffy.

So, it looks like a strict interpretation of the term "classic" doesn't get us anywhere good, does it? Your interpretation may be different than mine, but you can see where I'm going here.

That being said, if we can all seem to agree that it's okay to incude a POS from 1980, which is nothing more than an Impala with different trim, I can't see why we need to fight over people swapping in new, highly engineered GM engines.
As far as I'm concerned, nothing made after they downsized the blocks to 307 and 260 is really an Olds anyway. The marque died then - it just wasn't buried until GM announced its demise years later.

So what?

So I believe, as others have said, that if you mess around with an all-original car that's in good shape, even a plain-jane bottom-of-the-line model, you're doing wrong, because originals should be preserved for the sake of history (especially the bottom-of-the-line models).
Updating anything else, though, is fine, especially if you don't make changes that make it impossible to "go back" one day.
Do I prefer these things to be original? Yes.
Do I understand the rationale behind installing newer motors? Yes.
Am I annoyed every time I see a tasteful "street rod" from the '30's or '40's go by, with a SBC under the hood? Yes.
Was I happy when I saw one last week with the obvious exhaust note of a flathead V8? Yes.
Do I think it would be a good idea to post some sort of an FAQ with OBJECTIVE information about things like parts availability, reliability, cost to build to various HP levels, and fuel economy? Yes.
Do I believe that the people who cite the above factors as reasons for swapping in LS motors would do anything different if all of them were disproven? No.

So, what IS a "classic Oldsmobile?" What would it take to make one "not classic?"
Does it even matter, since even in the fifties, there was very little difference between the divisions?
Obviously, the use of the word "classic" connotes some vision of originality or adherence to an image from the past, which one would not expect to find on a site like "OldsRodder" or "ProOldsTouring," but that image is not fixed or specific, and I would wager is different for every member of this board, so let's avoid throwing stones and try to help one another with our cars, huh?

- Eric

MDchanic

Sorry - not to threadjack, but where the ____ did this piece of "information" come from?

Anyone got any statistics to completely debunk this before it gets out of hand?

Stuff like this makes me crazy.

jensenracing77

ok so i used the wrong word. my truck will continue to go down in value and was bought to use for work. my truck will never be a "classic" because it will not live through the hard work i put it through. i would likely never put a 455 in it but would love to do it if the engine in it went out. the point was just that i would not go to a forum that is 99.9% chevy and ask how to put an Oldsmobile engine in it or brag to them that now my truck is better than there's.

f-85

Well said agian Justin!

f-85

Exactly!!!!!

f-85

I just looked up the definition of classic!

clas·sic/ˈklasik/
Adjective: Judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind.
Noun: A work of art of recognized and established value.


Sounds like an Oldsmobile!

RetroRanger

that sums it up for me thanks Eric

I dont think anyone on here is boasting about how their car is better than everyone elses because of an LS swap or 455 swap or 442 hood or anything else most people are sharing their joy at an accomplishment because they are happy/proud of their car and it shows in the build threads in all of the various categorys

f-85

We can take it back old school when we were kids and sesame street. Ok kids now what one doesnt belong!

1- Performanceyears has a non pontiac forum

2- v8Buick has a non Buick forum

3- Classicoldsmobile has a non Olds powered Olds forum



Now if you brake it down real simple it might be easier to understand.

rustyroger

Sounds like an Armstrong Siddely/fintail Mercedes/'59 Cadillac/Riley 2.6/E type Jaguar/MGTC/Gullwing Chevy/VW Bug/Insert your favourite car here to me.....

How far do we go down the what is a classic? road, turn away a perfect '68 442 because it doesn't have crossply tires?.
There are a finite number of Oldsmobiles, everyday there are fewer left as they get wrecked or go to the crusher, lets not get hung up about people putting other engines in to keep them going, or fitting upgraded brakes or overdrive transmissions either.
Roger.

Jamesbo

X 2 Eric

As I pointed out years ago in the first post here. When these cars were new. NO ONE wanted them Factory

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ng-up-60s.html

GTI_Guru

There's one aspect to this that nobody has brought up anywhere yet, and I haven't seen it offered in any of the other threads on this topic either (to my recollection)

But a lot of what I see happening sometimes is that some of the threads are popping up for people CONSIDERING making a resto-mod swap and wondering about the cost effectiveness of it. In none of these threads do I see any of the members here offering up an old engine core for sale on the cheap to entice someone away from making a swap to a different engine if that's what they need.

We're all car guys. We hoard parts. LOTS of them. There's lots of people out there that are thinking about these swaps because buildable engines are becoming scarcer. Who makes them that way? WE DO. It's our nature. We want spares for our own projects.

If you really feel that strongly about "Keeping it original" then some of the members need to step up and say "Here's what I can do to help" instead of publicly tar & feathering someone for looking at alternatives when they can't locate the appropriate engine to go in their car.

I had a couple old Buick 455's stashed away for 15+ years because I knew they would become scarce eventually. I just sold them off to another Buick guy (not really my thing, and never was, but I know value when I see it) so I sold them off finally and made a little profit. Not enough to break the bank, but it made it worth my while for storing them in a clean dry area for that long.

The guy I sold them to claimed to have over 20 buildable 455 cores stored. NOBODY needs that many engines sitting around, unless you're an engine builder redoing a couple a year to go back on the road, but that's neither here nor there and I digress.

Point is, instead of giving these guys such a hard time, try and see what can be done to assist them in putting it back to original if they can see value in it.

As someone's signature says on here:

"Use your knowledge to guide, not to embarrass/shame/hurt or run someone off." (or something close to that. Too lazy to go look it up this morning...)

Anyhow, if you want to make a difference in how people react to this, do your part to move it in the right direction. You might be surprised at the reactions some people will have if they are welcomed into the family camaraderie here with people trying to help them keep it original, instead of condemning them for considering what they see as a "best alternative" when they haven't been able to come up with a workable solution on their own.

-Jeff

p.s. I tried to sell this soapbox in a previous similar thread, but got no takers, so the price is reduced to a 6-pack, smile & handshake if someone needs one!

oldcutlass

p.s. I tried to sell this soapbox in a previous similar thread, but got no takers, so the price is reduced to a 6-pack, smile & handshake if someone needs one!

Well, I don't drink!!! I'll do the handshake & a smile!!!

Heres the deal folks, do we want to become extinct like dinosaurs, or do we want to evolve?? I agree with all the points of view here, however I'm 53 years old, I grew up with all of these cars, and its getting harder and more expensive everyday to keep them on the road!! So knowlege and creativity is necessary. All that and more, can be found here on Classic Oldsmobile if you let it!

As I and alot of others mentioned the "Classic" definition is broad based, and realistically the true definition does not apply here! NO OLDSMOBILE (nor any GM, Mopar, AMC, Ford..., need I go on) WILL EVER BE A CLASSIC, PERIOD, end of story.

My tastes are specifically muscle cars (original or not) and street rods from 1973 and back! I do however, appreciate any old car that was painstaking restored back to original also. I see art in car bodies from an era when you could tell what a car was by its tail lights at night. As a pup, I looked forward to the release of new car models in Sept of every year. Come on, admit it, each and every car manufacturer had at least 1 model you all appreciated over the years! Either for performance, luxury, or other reasons. I lived during the era of race on Sunday / buy on Monday! Nascar, dragracing, road racing, and for that matter most racing, was represented by real people with real cars, and manufacturers coming together to create performance and art in motion! Not the debaucle they have now! It was innovative, creative, and exciting, it provided all the things alot of us really enjoy in our automobiles.

With that said, I'm sorry, but I am going to put a 468 bbc/ turbo 400 in my Olds. It was cheap, it's a beast of a motor, and it's my car and decision. However I will probably put the 330 4v/st300 in storage. The swap will not butcher the car and it will be easy to put it back to original if I so desire! Do I give a crap what anyone thinks, NO! Am I going to call another forum home, NO! I enjoy all of you here, will I agree with all, NO!

Again, as 1 member stated, just because your dad received a heart transplant does that not make him your dad?

Again, I reiterate there is something on here for everyone lets evolve, or this site will be nothing but a handfull of crusty old purists, collecting e-dust, pissing and moaning and pushing their narrowminded opinions on anyone who stumbles on to the site!

Next!

GAOldsman

My sentiments exactly. It's their car, their $$ and I DON'T have to read anything I don't like. That is the best thing about being "Free" we get to do pretty much as we please, unless it physically hurts someone or violates someones rights. I don't like a lot of things that goes on in this world, but I can voice my opinion (thankfully) and I can try to lead by example as to what I believe is right. But it doesn't mean everyone will see things through my eyes. People are funny creatures perhaps the most undermining, asinine species on the planet.

I choose to ignore it PERIOD

J-(Chicago)

I think I see the point that F-85 is trying to make here, and I will describe the best analogy that comes to mind.

A U.S. penny is worth 3 cents in scrap copper right now, so people started scrapping all their american pennies for profit.
Some people scrapped, some patriots made a big stink.... So in 2007 they made a law that you get 5 years in jail for ruining American history if you scrap pennies. He is on the patriotic side of this argument.



Every oldsmobile is worth $290 per ton in scrap steel. No matter if it's showroom condition, or has weeds growing in the doors.

I have no problem with people frankensteining a car back together if they SAVED IT FROM DEATH.
By all means, if you built the thing from the ground up with a grinder and a welder, you can have any motor you want.

It's when people buy a really nice beautiful olds, and then "convert" it when it starts to irk me a little.

I can't bring myself to completely agree with F-85, but I do see & respect his opinion. There are bigger and better motors out there to drool over other than standard issue olds blocks. I don't talk about them here.
Kind of how I didn't cuss in front of my grandmother.
Olds motors are the grandmother here. Just because her hearing aid is turned down, doesn't mean you should call her a stupid b***h.
You go over there to hear her stories, about her life, not to throw out her favorite chair and steal her jewelry.

I'm ok with the new forum, but mostly to get the cheby posts out of my way and in the corner.
To F-85.....Times they will a change. That's why you traded in your pager for a cell phone a long time ago.
This stuff isnt going to last forever, and we've no way to freeze and vacuum seal it. If we write an oldsmobile book, it won't be in a future shop lesson plan.
Let's just be glad we were born in a generation to enjoy this old junk.

gearheads78

Ok I'll play

1- Performanceyears has a non pontiac forum (the place that they want all discussion on SBC / BBC / LS SWAPS) Non Pontiac Motors in Pontiacs This forum is for HELPING those installing non-Pontiac engines in their cars

2- v8Buick has a non Buick forum (not sure ...I don't get on there)

3- Classicoldsmobile has a non Olds powered Olds forum (place to put non Oldspowered builds)

1 and 3 look pretty similar to me

Lady72nRob71

They are not. However, they are being put into mostly stock-looking Oldsmobiles - that is the reason we allow the threads to exist, preferably in peace.
The non-olds section gets them all into one place, so they can be avoided if desired. I find it interesting to to see all the labor involved - as long as I am not doing it...
I agree 100% with J - if the car is saved from becoming tin cans over in china, then it's a win.
As long as gas prices stay high (and they will) then the newer more gas-efficient engine swaps will be popular, especially when they are daily drivers.

GTI_Guru

If you think that someone cramming an LS engine into an Olds ruffles some feathers, wait til engines like this start being commonplace.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42460541...auto-industry/

All it takes is a major innovation in technology to render something obsolete that's been taken for granted for decades.

If they are as efficient as the claims, and produce as much or more power than a reciprocating piston engine, you can bet they will start to be put into everything on wheels as soon as they start hitting the junkyards.

And I can see someone somewhere being the first person to put "Hybird" logos on a classic Olds with others throwing rocks that direction.

Of course, if fuel prices are up to $5-6 or higher a gallon, a lot of other folks are also going to be asking "How can I do that to mine!"

Here's another new engine with a lot of potential in the R&D phases.

http://www.engineeringtv.com/video/O...posed-Cylinder

Yes, the times are a' changing. In some ways for the better. I just hope that "big oil" doesn't buy & bury this technology to keep us sucking on that big ol teat they have cornered the market on...

-Jeff

Bill in NC

Here's my opinion since I know you really want it just as much as we want yours F-85............YOU are the type of person that runs people off of a site. I have only been a member on this site for a short time, and it was easy to spot "your type" immediatly (an internet search engine backed know-it-all, with a pile of rusty junk parts laying around that makes you think you really do know what you're talking about). YOU stir the pot as much as possible when you have every opportunity NOT to.

Here is another one of my opinions since we're sharing.......4 door sedans suck. They just aren't cool......old blue haired ladies drive those. They should only be considered as parts cars for a 2 door coupe or 4 door wagon restoration.

f-85

Twist it any way you want. Look at the name of the website again!

f-85

LOL another internet tuff guy! Those are the kind of words you say to someones face! If you wanna talk tuff, do it in person, not on the internet! Ill be at the Byron race if you wanna chat!

f-85

Another note. I have not seen one person save a car from a scrapper and put in a LS. ONLY Running, driving, clean, nice cars.

joe_padavano

And, we're done here. Again, while I agree with the O.P., this thread is rapidly getting out of hand. It's time for a little of that "over-moderation". The decision was made to have a non-Olds forum here. I don't see how this thread is going to change anything. It's closed now.