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Only to add >>> you count the ridges at the end of the axle to arrive at the correct # of splines.
Thanks Norm - I don't know a ton, but I did know that.
Originally Posted by Jamesbo
Chris, I had 2 [ at the lake ]and Donny took one. Let me know if you want one Free Both are peg legs Mike Did you take one home also? [rear axles brakes to pumpkin]
Jim - Thanks for the offer, and if push comes to shove I may revisit with you. Mine is a '67 - '69, O-type with standard 28 spline. Do you know exactly what you have? At least right now, I think I'll only need the driver's side axle, but I'd take the whole thing if it's the correct type.
Chris, No I'll have to get the wire brush out next weekend
Jim - Thanks, I'll appreciate it if you can figure out what you have and I can determine whether it will work for my application. Seems right now like I'm taking 1 step forward, and 2 steps back. I hopefully will know by tomorrow morning whether the existing axle shaft is salvageable. I'm taking it to a reputable rear-end rebuilder who specializes in classics.
Last edited by Dream67Olds442; August 12th, 2024 at 04:57 PM.
I want to thank all you guys for your kind words and constructive comments, both on this thread and my problem thread in the driveline forum. I really appreciate all you guys more than you know. Right now it doesn't feel like I'm making alot of progress towards determining exactly what parts I will need for the rebuild or who I'm going to have do it. Hoping I will know more after taking the axle to the rebuilding shop tomorrow morning. Alot of anxiousness right now about the project as a whole, and hopefully getting it done right the 1st time! Despite how much I miss the joy of getting the car out to events, I'm gonna do my best not to rush the process, I'll choose done right over fast.
Chris - You're going to be fine. "If" it were me I would remove the LH axle for a visual during this down time period. You're going to be down several days, it's a great opportunity because (1) you just witnessed what happened to the RH axle and (2) you might be able to prevent the same issue from occurring on the LH axle. Unless you know for a fact what's been done on the rear end (differential included) you have no idea the state of affairs with the LH axle, wheel assembly.
Kenneth - I think these teardrop campers are pretty cool. I've almost bought one a couple times but went larger only because I had the appropriate vehicles to tow larger; yet, you could most likely pull one of these w/ your Jeep.
Thanks for the kind words about truck and trailer guys. Chris sorry to hear about the rear end. Monzaz on here is also a rear end expert.
Greg - Thanks. I spent about 20-minutes on the phone with Monzaz (Jim at JD Race) this morning after pulling the bad axle and sending him a bunch of pics. Unfortunately, there was so much damage to the bearing area that he could not positively identify the axle shaft from the pics I sent. I wish he was close, I'd go to him in a heartbeat. If we end up having trouble sourcing some parts locally, I'll go to him because he seems to have access to just about everything.c
Originally Posted by Vintage Chief
Chris - You're going to be fine. "If" it were me I would remove the LH axle for a visual during this down time period. You're going to be down several days, it's a great opportunity because (1) you just witnessed what happened to the RH axle and (2) you might be able to prevent the same issue from occurring on the LH axle. Unless you know for a fact what's been done on the rear end (differential included) you have no idea the state of affairs with the LH axle, wheel assembly.
Norm - You're smart and a mind reader! When Monzaz could not identify the axle from the pics I sent, he suggested I pull the opposite axle and take several pictures of the hopefully undamaged axle and then he might be able to identify it. When I actually have the work done, I had already planned on having whoever the rebuilder is do a thorough inspection of the passenger side, and thorough inspection of the gears, with a thorough flush and new fluids. I'm sure whoever the rebuilder turns out to be, this would probably be standard procedure.
Chris, I've got a 67 442 rear end loose in my back garage and axles out if you need comparisons.
John - That would be terrific if you could get me some higher quality pics. Also, if you could get the shaft diameter and length, that would help. It is my understanding the length is measured from the front edge on the face of the shaft, parallel to the shaft to the end of the spline end. Really appreciate it buddy!
Kenneth - I think these teardrop campers are pretty cool. I've almost bought one a couple times but went larger only because I had the appropriate vehicles to tow larger; yet, you could most likely pull one of these w/ your Jeep.
Been out of the game a couple of days. My old nemesis cellulitis decided to come calling. Felt a little funny when I woke up Sunday morning, didn't think much of it, but by the time I was done at Walmart I was down for the count. Just started feeling better this morning and decided I could venture out of the house. This **** ain't for sissies. I recommend that if you have the opportunity to have cellulitis, that you pass on it.
Chris I missed the whole episode on your rear end, as it were. I had an axle bearing go bad on a Corvair driving home from work once. You fared better. I was about 5 miles from home and had to call a wrecker. Also, before I could get if fixed a tree fell on the car and that was the end. My unsolicited advice is have the whole thing rebuilt so you don't have to worry about the other axle or other bearings. And take the opportunity to put in different gears if you feel it needs it. One piece of the puzzle you won't have to ever worry about again.
Jamesbo I see that you called at some point. I'm sorry I couldn't answer, but I'm afraid if I did all you would get would be nonsensical. No I didn't bring home a rear end, but I tell you what, if you have something that Chris can use I can probably take it to him. I'll be going to the home of John Deere(Moline IL) over Labor Day and I'm sure we could work out a rendezvous.
Okay I gotta get caught up on things. Being completely out of pocket is a little unsettling. I'll be back to work tomorrow, I can't be lollygagging around. Hope everyone is having a good day.
Had a very fast trip out west this weekend. Flew out of the Evil at 4pm Sat, got to Phoenix at 8pm local (which is Mountain Standard, or Pacific Daylight, as they don't rotate) through Dallas. Just an overnight carryon. Got my rental, found my hotel in Scottsdale and crashed. Up early on Sunday, went and met to do business, had a wonderful time over six hours, lunch included, then back to the airport. Flight was late leaving and got into DFW late. Connection was already tight. I think my worn out running shoes were in the DFW airport building between planes a grand total of ten minutes. Dove through the door after the last boarding family and got back to the Evil Sunday night.
I need to not take last flights of the day and make sure DFW connections have more time.
I snapped these pics of one my old 28 spline 67-69 axle shafts out in the garage. Lemme know if you need more info.
Kenneth - Great pics, thank you very much! Just to make sure I am reading your micrometer correctly, the distance above is just shy of 1.179 inches, correct?
Thanks again pardner!
Mike - Sorry you've been sick buddy, hope you're back to 100% soon!
Ya, the car situation is a bummer, certainly could be worse though! I'll try to provide an update later tonight based on happenings today.
Kenneth - Great pics, thank you very much! Just to make sure I am reading your micrometer correctly, the distance above is just shy of 1.179 inches, correct?
Thanks again pardner!
Mike - I had a case of periorbital cellulitis ~ three weeks ago. A simple scratch/cut above my eye led to the LH eyelid swelling to the size of a golf ball. Placed on two antibiotics for seven days - that was cruel. Usually kids kid it. I'll pass on it next time.
John - I've done that routine more often than I care to remember. So happy those days are long behind me.
Chris - Looking forward to this evenings axle report.
Watched Red2 last night on the new Fire TV Stick. More about that after I view more TV/movies with it.
Played 18, not so bad and the weather very tolerable today.
Chris - Looking forward to this evenings axle report.
Norm - Ask and you shall receive. First, need to define a few things. I was initially referred by the President of the StL Old's Club to another member of the Club, a Mr. Randy Bardle who is recognized as the premier Old's restorer for mechanical and body/chassis work. I contacted Randy B. and he said he was willing to work on my car. Randy B. is out of town for a few days, and he referred me to a local classic car Rear- End rebuilder, who has rebuilt multiple rear-ends for Randy B., including the W-27 rear-end in Randy B.'s 1972 W-30 car. This classic car rear-end specialists name is also Randy. Randy B. referred me to Randy #2 to make an initial assement of whether the axle shaft would be reusable.
So, here's where we're at as of today:
- After just a quick visual assessment without removing the leftover bearing race, Randy #2 said it didn't look like the race had spun on the axle, and that he thought it would be salvageable, but he wouldn't know for sure until the race was off. Ok, sounds good.
- Randy #2 also said, if it was his car, once he had it he would pull the other axle and inspect it's condition. Since the axle is already out, if the bearing/seal looked contemporary with the one that failed, he would replace the bearing/seal on that side also as a precautionary measure. I don't disagree with his logic.
- Next, Randy B. said if it was his car he would open the pumpkin, drain out all the old fluid and flush, and inspect the posi-carrier and gears for excessive wear or damage. If those things looked OK, and since he had it open, he would repace the main bearing there if it looked contemporary with the other bearings. I can't disagree with this approach either. He said if all these things were done and he didn't have to get into the gears or posi-carrrier, we'd be looking at $1,500 to $2K.
- There is also the matter of the broken 4 bolt retainer plate designed to hold the axle in on bearing failure. Monzaz/Jim, had already given me a heads-up that it is hard to find used ones in condition good enough to use and gave me a part number for ordering new ones from Inline Tube. They come in a pack of two and I already ordered them. Inline Tube did not provide a shipping date yet. Randy #2 said he may be able to scrounge up one if push comes to shove.
- Randy #2 said he is backed up right now and probably will not be able to pick up the car and start on it for at least 5 to 7-days, and then depending on how things went it would be another 5 to 7-days until completion. He assured me the car would remain indoors in it's bay for duration.
- I am currently in the process of trying to circle back with Randy B., and get his recommendation on whether I should go ahead and let Randy #2 do the work, or wait for Randy B. to be available. I do know for certain that Randy #2 has rebuilt multiple rear-ends for Randy B. in the past, so I'm betting Randy B. tells me to go ahead and let Randy #2 do the work and trusts the work.
That's the story as of today???
Addition - We have several regulars on this thread with alot of automotive expertise. I am very open to opinions and suggestions on the course of action I've outlined above. I'd really like your opinions since I do have a few days to change course if I want to. Thanks!
Last edited by Dream67Olds442; August 13th, 2024 at 05:12 PM.
I get 29 1/8 long x 1 and 5/32 diameter. Battery calipers gave it up mid measurement. Same dimensions as Kenneth.
The problem is "the dealership problem" where they take a car apart, diagnose, put it back together damaged, then tear it apart again to fix it. How do you feel about removing the rear end and them just taking it?
Edit: or them pulling it in your garage and taking it off to fix it and bringing it back?
Kenneth - I knew my wife had bought a micrometer awhile back for some project she needed very precise measurements for. I never had one of my own. I asked to borrow hers so I could compare the measurements you took to those of my axle. She brought me her micrometer, electronic/digital read-out, of course the battery was dead. Certainly a better mousetrap, crap!
Chris, that’s why I keep the manual caliper in the garage, so I know I can make a measurement when I need to. The battery powered one stays indoors at my desk.
As for your repair estimates, all I can say is I am glad I do my own work. I rebuilt my O-Type for much, much less than that including the parts and all the tools I bought to do it (20 ton press, inch-pound torque wrench, dial indicator with magnetic base). But I wanted to learn how to rebuild the rearend, and I know not everyone has the same motivation.
My recommendation would be to replace the axle bearings and seals on both sides, drain and refill the fluid, and be done. There’s a reason why Olds moved away from sealed bearings in 1970 - the lube in the sealed bearings will eventually dry out and the bearing will fail, whereas the later style open bearings get continual lubrication from the diff oil.
Kenneth - I knew my wife had bought a micrometer awhile back for some project she needed very precise measurements for. I never had one of my own. I asked to borrow hers so I could compare the measurements you took to those of my axle. She brought me her micrometer, electronic/digital read-out, of course the battery was dead. Certainly a better mousetrap, crap!
Chris, these are calipers. A micrometer is a whole other level of precise.
The problem is "the dealership problem" where they take a car apart, diagnose, put it back together damaged, then tear it apart again to fix it. How do you feel about removing the rear end and them just taking it?
Edit: or them pulling it in your garage and taking it off to fix it and bringing it back?
John - You certainly aren't helping my anxiety! But don't think, I haven't thought about that. I could certainly just pull the other axle, take them both to the rebuilder and have him replace the bearings and seals like Kenneth is suggesting below. I am just hesitant to not have an expert inspect the posi carrier and gears after such a catastrophic failure. Definitely something to think about???
Originally Posted by Fun71
My recommendation would be to replace the axle bearings and seals on both sides, drain and refill the fluid, and be done. There’s a reason why Olds moved away from sealed bearings in 1970 - the lube in the sealed bearings will eventually dry out and the bearing will fail, whereas the later style open bearings get continual lubrication from the diff oil.
Kenneth - I had a long discussion with my buddy who owns the '66 Vette and has been working on cars his whole life about this, and he said exactly the same thing as you. He said he would replace bearings/seals on both axles, drain the fluid, and refill, and give it a shot. He said odds are the rear gears are fine, especially if there was no noise coming from there to begin with. However, like I told John above, I'm just scared not to have an expert at least take a look at them.
I do have a question though. I could probably find this somewhere, but I'm lazy, and I know you'll know the answer. I know where the fill plug is on the rear-end housing, but is there a drain plug underneath, or is the only way to drain it is to take the rear cover loose? Thanks
Nah, Chris, I mean pull the whole rear if you want to be sure. That would be brake lines, disconnect the shocks, lower it, take the springs out, then support it and pull the control arms. Drive shaft too. I think I'm forgetting something.
Or, they could come take the whole rear like that. You would just need to provide jack stands to hold the *** end up while under repair.
An axle shaft coming out can’t really cause any damage to the ring and pinion gears, or the carrier. The end of the shaft just slips out of side gear, and once it’s out all it can do is bang around the inside of the axle tube as it moves outward.
I posted earlier about my experience with losing an axle shaft on my O-Type rear at speed. The axle shaft exited and got trapped when the car fell on it as it was half way out the end of the tube. I replaced the bearing and seal, and drove for the next 20 years with no issues. Until the bearing on the other side failed.
Oh, and no, there is no drain plug. Take out all bolts except one on the top, make it half loose. Leave one or two in the bottom, just in one thread or so. With a pan and a plastic pry bar, start working to pop it loose. It will start dripping, but, here's the kicker, as you get it loose, the oil will de stick the gasket, so it can go from 90% stuck to 1 gallon of oil on the floor in about a half second (hence the bolts keeping the cover kind of there so it's a deflector for oil into the pan.)
August 11th, 2024, 05:48 PM
