bil

1970 442 convertible,4 speed for sale.Not mine,but I wish it was! It belongs to a friend,I have driven it,real nice.He offered it to me first,but I don't have the bucks right now.The info is all on his site.Man,I love this car! ---

Call or e-mail him for more info.Worth it just looking at the gallery!

stevengerard

wow, that looks exactly like my car and for what I just went though with the restoration (and continue to go through) I wouldn't sell my car for that much and it isn't even a 4-speed. And if he was a real friend he'd give you the car

bhap

"Z" vin code W-30 ?

stevengerard

I just noticed that and the Cowl tag is not a "LAN" cowl tag either, I'm looking through the pics looking to see if the heads are "F" heads. I do like the color (but I am biased) and no matter what a 4-speed 442 convertible is very rare, heck less than 3000 442s were convertibles to begin with. But it does not look like it is a real W30. the sequence number is pretty darn low. was a September build - heads are F but all that stuff is bolt on - hard to believe someone would go through all of that that long ago - says it has a W27 rear end but didn't see an image of it, wonder if its the cover or the whole thing - would be interesting to find out the earlier history.

stevengerard

Now that I looked at it, well, its definitely a nice car but good luck with that price

agtw31

bil

It has the cover,not the entire aluminum carrier.I know he has had the car in this condition for many years,and it has always had this equipment as long as he owned it. It has all the right parts for the W30,but you are right,not a Lansing car.I have had several 70 W30s,this has all the small things that would be easy to overlook,such as the correct tabs on the valve covers for the OAI springs,the springs are the correct white ones,etc. F heads. The place he got it from had gotten a bunch of expensive foreign cars from a doctors estate,and this one.The wife had said it had spent a lot of time at the dealers when it was new. Personally,I don't see where it was a money-making proposition back then to find all of these minute detail parts,as the values weren't there then. It is a mystery to me also.
When I have visited,he has given me the car! The dealer quote was from another Olds forum,I believe. ---bil

Jamesbo

Dont hold back any Andy, We'd hate to see you start sugar coating it.

stevengerard

If I was him I'd do everything I could to go back and document it, I wonder how much value would be put on it if the equipment was dealer installed - probably a decent amount, would be very cool. W30s have so little documentation it would be neat to find a real dealer installed one - I have heard of many of those produced just never seen one verified.

bil

I agree with Steven about would it be worth it back then,and would love to find out the early history of the car.It is from the Los Angeles area,a doctor owned it,anyone with info let me know.Thanks. ---bil
The car drives nice,low miles.The picture by the rock is at the place they do all the new car commercials,and insurance ads,Point Mugo on PCH.

bil

Any idea of how to find more about a car like this? he has the plates that were on it, is there any way to trace them in California? Any ideas would help,it has been driving me crazy,too. ---bil

bil

He has the original plates that were with it,is there any way to trace this in California? I would like to know,also.Thanks. ---bil

mmurphy77

Carefully chosen words like "W-30 equipped" and "this rendition of..."

f-85 rallye

EXACTLY!
I agree with Andy.
I say "Not from Lansing, Not a W-30."
Damn nice car though. I was drooling a little.
I would think for that asking price, it should be from Lansing, be a factory W-30 and maybe even have documentation.
My 2 cents, if you were looking for it!

stevengerard

as the present owner he may be able to get copies of the previous titles, I'd bet it won't say anything about W30 but it may help him find previous owners who can provide more info. But who knows, heck a decade ago I tracked down a previous owner, they didn't even remember it being a 442, said "yeah I had a blue Cutlass convertible... nice car" I was talking to a guy at a car show the other day who had a 66 Cutlass convertible, absolutely beautiful and modified, did a nice job, the whole time he called my car a Cutlass... I'm fine with that but was still surprised by it

sicky olds

is it just me or is that price WAY too high? i dont know if theres something i am missing on it but just me voicing out loud

Nilsson

That car will never be worth that price. Well, may be in another 40 years.

507OLDS

It was on 442.com over the winter.I see it hasn't moved yet.

agtw31

as log as this board allows people to spam on their first post,you're going to get these dealers in here,trying to pump their overpriced stuff.

it should be mandatory you have to have 50 posts before dropping a spam bomb (such as this car,and several others)in the for sale section.

i bet you wont see anymore $6500 70 delta 88's,either.

aliensatemybuick

Looks like a very nice car, and the seller has provided the info. needed for anyone with even the most rudimentary knowledge of these cars to know that the W30 package was added. As for the asking price, that is an excercise in first amendment rights; one never knows what reasonable counter-offer might be accepted.

Car looks very much like one owned by a gentleman I know on Staten Island...a real 4 speed '70 442 convertible (non-Lansing, Framingham I think) with W30 pieces added. Beautiful car and lots of fun to drive, whatever its worth.

bil

The guy is NOT a dealer,and the ad is NOT spam! I put it on here because he told me he was trying to sell it.Make him an offer! What can it hurt. I joined this forum because I love Oldsmobiles.I currently have 5.At one time,I had 13 that were running.Several W30s. I signed up for another forum,but no reply,then I found on Google others had that problem,and it led here. Nicer attitude,very helpful folks.
If you don't like the ad,i will have it deleted. I thought at least you might like the pictures,and maybe I could find out more about the car.And thanks to those that have given me more info. ---bil

driverchoice

I dont believe in having that posting rule crap, i dont see the big deal - its a car for sale it, it gets discussed,people get educated,hopefully someone doesnt get ripped off,thats what i would expect from this site,--gaining knowledge

sicky olds

man you are still salty about that one huh? lol

bil

Price reduced!! A lot! I hadn't looked at how much he had on his site,and the price was from several years ago,he has offers way up there that he probably should have taken.Oh,well. I sent him the link to the comments here,some of the info has been changed to reflect the help you guys gave.Also the price is way down,and he is also open for offers.
One thing I would like to say-what I think is the real value of the car is that it is not a restoration,the panels are the ones it was made with,the interior is all original.Except for an engine change a long time ago,and w30 emblems,it is how it came from the factory.You don't see many like it anymore. Thank you to all those that pointed out any errors,and if anyone has more,let me know.I will start a thread about the small details that were only on the w30s,and asking for any info.Thanks. ---bil

Jamesbo

Nice car,

What I have found is when you put a car up for sale, the "Experts" come out of the wood work to knock it. Many [or all ] have never seen it, but are swift to tell everything they think is/are/could be wrong with it.

I know nothing about your friend's car, but you certainly have the right to offer it here.

W-30 or not It's a beauty.

Just MHO

Bluevista

Nice car.

It says the engine has "Muscular horses"??
My Vista Cruiser has 98 pound weakling horses, W-30 horses walk by and kick sand in it's face at the beach.

stevengerard

Jamesbro, you must have been to the last few car shows I've been at always someone telling me what a 442 should or shouldn't have as they head back to their 1976 Cordoba - and nothing wrong with that car just makes it clear I know as little about that car as they do mine.

And yes the car Bil brings up is a great looking survivor and I'm glad he brought it up to our attention but in all reality there is a huge difference in a W30 convertible and a 442 and just as much with a 442 and a 442 with an non matching engine - which by the way would be my next Olds purchase if I ever do get another one - a non matching anything hardtop

Jamesbo

"Experts" abound

If you think Oldsmobiles are crazy, I invite you to explore the world of Confederate made pistols. It gives a whole new meaning to "accuracy insanity"

I am convinced the Civil war museum in Atlanta displays fake pistols. and 99.999% of the people who view them don't know or CARE

Good luck selling your friends car

agtw31

james,an expert told me your intake and heads on your H/O are fake

is he a liar?

bil

Thanks for the good words guys-as we know,any object is only worth what someone will pay for it. Even if you aren't looking for one,his site is really full of detail shots of a real beautiful car,and it is all for free!
I don't know anything about Confederate made pistols,I have german made machine guns,when someone asks if they are real,I just say "WHAT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU!! LOL
---bil

Jamesbo

Andy,

I’m not calling anyone a "Liar" I am very simply saying, There are people [who you've obviously spoken with] who say some things on my H/O are not correct. SO BE IT, I’ve told everyone I’ve spoken to that they need to come inspect the car and make their own decisions as to what they think.

I have told everyone I DON’T WANT TO SELL THIS CAR TO SOME ONE WHO HASN’T SEEN AND INSPECTED IT . ASK RON IF I AM NOT TRUTHFUL.

If you would quit using your head for a retinal thermometer you would/could read my post VERY CLEARLY STATING I AM NOT AN EXPERT ON 69 H/O

I am mystified why this burned up car grasp so much time and or attention?

Don’t


You have some valve covers to polish?

6inarow

I am not going to pretend to know anything but aren't those 71-72 fenders on this car? it was mentioned that this car is unrestored and wears it's original panels. I am not trying to stir anything up. Just wondering.

driverchoice

good eyes on that !

bil

You don't have to pretend,you do know! I looked at the pics closer,it appears you are right.I know the hood has been off (naturally,to change engines) I really am stumped with this car,all I can figure is the owner maybe got a wrecked w30 and swapped out the parts onto his own 442.The front bumper,grille,etc are all 70.Minor fender bender,with a replacement of engine and fenders from the parts car? That is why I would like anyone that sees anything or can give more info-no offence taken,unless you are just being a dick,which I don't take your post to be at all.
As I said,this car is in the same condition as my friend bought it in 1992.At that time it had Calif plates,the white ones. Custom plates, "70 442" It was owned by a Drs widow,the dealer wouldn't say who she was. I know it was a real 442 by the numbers,the heads are F heads,exhaust manifolds correct,as much OAI and w30 stuff as possible.I don't know exactly how to get the info from Calif DMV,as I am now in New England. At that time,I don't see someone spending the time and effort to get all the little parts,as the values hadn't gone crazy yet.Even the clone or tribute cars don't have all those small details. I did check the paint on the trunk and door bolts for having been removed,and I was wrong about the fenders,obviously.Thanks for pointing it out,I will put it on my list.(My 442/w30 info thread) ---bil

globalgrooves

Its funny i just joined this forum, and the first thread i read is this one. I own a bunch of muscle cars, 3 of which are Olds, all Cutlass, 72 convert, 70 coupe, and 70 sedan. Hello !!

Well i can help with some of the rumours about this car. I am a car appraiser by trade, and back in April 2009 a client asked me to inspect this actual car to see if it was a real matching numbers W-30 convertible.

Well its is not, the engine is from a 71 car, the engine stamping is 31M460800 but the transmission is matching to the car. The W-30 stuff is all genuine. I went over this car with a fine tooth coomb, i checked for a build sheet, under seats, carpet, and rear seats, no build sheet to be found. I took over 400 photos of the car.

The car has been repainted, the owner who is a nice guy, has no history to back up the claimed original mileage of 17,210 when i looked at it, and to my mind unless you have paperwork to prove the mileage, then its not the real miles on a 40 + year old car. I see that he is now advertising the car with the odometer reading only. The car is in driver condition, as pictures show. Its not a show car by any stretch. He has had a window sticker made for the car as a W-30

As of April 2, 2009 The owner of the car is now fully aware its not a real W-30 car. Prior to that he was under the impression it was a real W-30 car. Back then His asking price of $250,000 was just plain ridiculous, if it was a real W-30 its worth in the current condition $100,000 to $120,000 (remember its needs a full restoration to be a show car) but as it stands, its just a driver 442 4 speed convertible with W-30 options added to it a long time ago. Its a $25,000 to $30,000 car in my opinion given the condition.

I have posted the detailed of my photos taken personally by myself, with shots of the casting numbers, date codes, engine and tranny stampings etc. for your critique on my facebook page, go to the photos section and look at the album titled 70 Olds Cutlass 442 part 1 and part 2.

I hope this clears up any confusion about the car. I feel the community should know from someone who has seen the car
Neil

http://www.facebook.com/pages/all-Ca...s/285548922225

6inarow

Welcome to CO Neil. I am new here too but I have found this place to be full of really great people. Thanks for all the info on this car.

bil

Neil-welcome to the site! I am glad you posted,I didn't know who had looked at the car,and the owner couldn't find your info at the time.Thanks for the input,as a result of info received here,he has reduced his price to more closely reflect the value.Having driven the car,and having driven cars with high miles,I would be inclined to think the mileage is correct.Everything is tight,real clean,certainly not a car with the odometer flipped.From info here,I would think that at least the front fenders have been painted (later fenders)I didn't see signs it had all been painted. It is a very nice car in its present condition,I myself wouldn't want to spoil it by making a showcar.Your value range seems pretty close.Thanks for the input,and the link to the pics. Did you get to take it out on the road at all? ---bil

bil

A couple of pics taken on PCH.Real nice drive,especially for a guy from Vermont,in January! ---bil

porknbeans

lol

globalgrooves

Hi Bill, good to meet you

I didnt drive the car, but if the car has not had any suspension bushing replaced since 1992, i would assume they the rubber has perished to some degree, furthermore with the bias ply tires it would be a handful to drive. The car is a solid car, but really it needs a restoration, cracked grille, stress cracks in the hood, paint overspray on the door Vin tag shows that the door has been painted, the front fenders are from a 1971 car, minor rust bubbles in one lower quarter panel, scratched fender and mirror, faded carpet, stitching loose on convertible top, some of the seals are dried out, interior has a used feel to it, overall the car does not sparkle. The car has issues, but its solid

But condition aside, with no history prior to 1992 that can be verified, there is absolutely no way to make any a claims to the real miles on the car. Hearsay from a car dealer that sold it to him doesn't really hold any water, dealers will make up any story to sell a car.

Having dealt with many classic muscle cars over the years, and the many fake cars that were claimed to be matching numbers, original mileage etc. etc. The bottom line is prove it with documentation. Its makes a huge difference to the value of a car if its a real W-30 car. As a standard 442 the original engine it would add maybe $7,000 to $10,000 to the value of this car. If the owner doesn't have any proof of the claims then don't make them, that is just plain common sense. Prove the mileage with service receipts.

I have a problem with people advertising a car with abigous statements, if the car does not have the original engine say so, if the car was not equipped with W-30 package from the factory say so, the owner is advertising car not far from the price range of a real W-30, and he has a made up a fake window sticker showing that car has W-30 package. The appraisal report he had done by an Olds expert shows the engine stamping number is NOT original to the car, that means the guy knows its not a matching numbers car. Whether intentionally or by accident, he is misleading prospective buyers, may i suggest he gets real, prices the car at $35,000 if he really wants to sell it, and be honest with your potential buyers.

Bill Its a free country and he can do whatever wants, but I just think that is the best way to do business.

Neil