1965CUTLASSHOLIDAY

Hey guys! Not an Olds guy yet (could become one though), but need some advice...

What do you guys think this is worth? Anybody have a Old Cars Price guide?


- 1965 F-85 Cutlass Holiday
- Basically 2 owner car...current owner bought from family of original owner
- Car was garaged majority of it's life
- 35k Original Miles (according to current owner)
- Repaint 17 yrs. ago - kept original color, Laurel Mist Green
- Owner claims no bondo/filler on car
- Chrome on bumpers pitted a little bit, but don't look horrible
- Looks like it had a light hit in the front, as witnessed by the creases on both front quarters and slight tweak of front bumper (look at first picture of NEXT post for best shot of it)
- Runs decent - burns a little oil and definitely drips a little (according to owner, drives well and needs a rear main seal)
- Engine and Tranny (2 speed) all original and never rebuilt
- Power Steering
- 330....not sure how to tell if it's a 260 hp or 315 hp...air cleaner cover does say "Ultra High Compression", which led me to believe it could be the 315 hp.
- Tires excellent - good tread, not dry-rotted
- Overall looks fairly solid and complete

Sorry for the lack of interior shots...battery died before I could get to it! Interior isn't horrible...seats definitely need to be redone, covers on front buckets. Factory tach on center console. Headliner looks excellent....almost have to wonder if it was replaced at some point - but looks original! Color of carpet underneath two front floormats scared me a little....

Interested in hearing your thoughts...I've tried to get a handle on approx. value by checking e-bay, forums, and NADA - but it's been tough! They are all over the place! So, figured I'd ask the experts - Thanks in advance guys!

(hope I didn't post too many pictures, LOL!!)



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1965CUTLASSHOLIDAY

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1965CUTLASSHOLIDAY

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1965CUTLASSHOLIDAY

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gearheads78

I can't see pics from work but based on description I would say 4K-5K. I will look at the pics tonight and see if my opinion changes or not.

jaunty75

You rang?


The OCPG lists the value of a 1965 Cutlass 2-door hardtop in #4 condition ( runs and drives just fine but needing restoration) at $3,300. With the pitted bumpers, collision damage, and dripping oil, it's not going to be much above this condition. It does looks nice. The next level up, #3 condition, which is described as car-show condition but not showroom condition, has a value of $7,430. Given the low mileage and the general condition, I would say it's in the $4,000 range. Gearheads78's estimate is reasonable.

What's the asking price?

1965CUTLASSHOLIDAY

Gear: Look forward to hearing what you think after looking through the pics...there's A LOT of them!!

jaunty: Thanks for chiming in - I know (from reading A LOT of threads here) that you are an OCPG fan! You kind of hit the nail on the head; this car has been hard for me to price because it really does look pretty nice! BUT, a full #3, I'm not sure....and I feel I may be a little partial because it was kind of a "love at first sight" thing for me - hence the reason for this post. After getting a closer look at the car, it put me on the fence. Not ready to say what the asking price is just yet....really wanna see what people think without swaying anyone any more than necessary...

BTW: NADA came up with an advantage of 20% if it had the 315 hp. version of the 330 over the 260 hp. variant, hence why I'm curious which this car has...does OCPG show any difference based on this???

Oldsguy

The picture with the flip-flop feet is kind of funny. I am most concerned with the under dash picture and the under the floor mat pictures. To me it indicates the window has been down at some time and rained on or stored in a very wet environment with windows cracked if the car was under a cover. The fuse block is pretty rusted too so you may have some electrical problems. Would be interesting to see what the floor pans look like, I bet they are rusted at least on the surface. You would have some work cut out for you but if you are planning a restoration then those things can be taken care of.

1965CUTLASSHOLIDAY

Was wondering how long it would take for someone to bring this up!!

Fantastic points. Underside of dash was definitely disconcerting. The floor mats only served to worry me that much more. Looking under the car didn't lead me to believe the floor pans were that bad, but that's why you can leave no "mat' unturned, lol!

Definitely have no plans for a restoration anytime in the foreseeable future, which may make this a bad car for me...but also probably what makes it within my price-range...

ALSO: Bonus points to whomever can tell me what the "****" to the left of the parking brake release is for. There was an identical one on the passenger side to the far right side of the dash....

arodenhiser

First thought, kick panel vents?

Adam

gearheads78

todays market 4000.00 tops it would make a nice driver but no show car

1965CUTLASSHOLIDAY

So - NOBODY has the answer to which 330 config this car is???


Got me!

Agree...car really doesn't look bad at first glance! Really caught my eye driving by! But when I got the opportunity to actually dig a bit, well, you can see what I found....


Found the few interior shots I had taken of it...

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Back seat really isn't horrible, but is cracked and taped up on the top (head area - hard to tell because of lighting)

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442scotty

If its a 4 barrel and says ultra high compression on the air cleaner you have the 315hp engine...

Nice car...I think $4000.00 would be about right...Major work to do in the windshield back glass area...didnt see the trunk floor and one 1/4 looks to have been patched?...I say if it runs good spray the window/back glass rust areas with a waxy oil stuff then drive it till you are ready to fix it...just dont leave it in the rain...and if you have high humidity park it in a dry location...

67 Cutlass

Looking at the air cleaner decal if it really is original, with the 'Ultra High Compression' it should be the higher 315HP motor, 10.25:1 compression I think.
The **** to the left of the parking brake handle is for the kick panel vents.

Nice looking car and I agree with the others on value looking at the pics.

Give this site a try http://www.442bro.com/

Good luck and keep us posted.

1965CUTLASSHOLIDAY

Yes it is a 4 barrel - so yes, it is the 315hp - Thanks for clearing that up for me!

Where do you see a patched quarter? Don't recall seeing one, but I am an amateur, so I definitely could have missed it - but owner says car has no bondo or filler whatsoever.

Also, rain and humidity are huge issues here in South Florida, where this car is currently located (has been for 6 yrs.) and would be with me, at least for now.

Thanks again for confirming my suspicions on the 260 vs. 315 hp. config. I don't know what kick panel vents are exactly (though I would imagine the name says it all, lol ) and had no idea this car had them...but good to know!

Thanks to everyone who has chimed in with their responses! It has helped a great deal - you all basically confirmed my overall "guess" of the car's value. The owner is asking $5000 for the car. I was having a lot of trouble figuring out if it was about right (which I was leaning toward), a little high (which I had trouble believing, because at first glance, the car really looked VERY NICE, as many have stated) or a steal (worth 7-8k+). The fact that it's the Ultra High Compression 315 h.p. variant does make it a little more desireable, at least to me, but it seems that when it comes to these cars, it's 4-4-2 or nothing! Also, I like the "holiday" (post-less) design...pretty cool, sporty-looking car!

Unfortunately, after getting a chance to take that closer look (and getting everyone's advice!), I don't think this car is gonna work for me. Firstly, the only way I can "afford" to buy anything like this nowadays is if the car is a good investment from the start. So basically, if this car is worth $4k-5k, I need to be into it for $3500 max. I just can't afford to get stuck "holding the bag", so-to-speak, if I need to turn the car over in a short period of time...things are crazy these days ....

I think the owner is pretty close though, price-wise, and will get very close to what he wants - from the right person, looking for this make/model/year of car. I think the car would actually go very quickly, even at the $5k, if he marketed it a bit more, but hey - only my opinion. I really wouldn't have thought that such a good looking, decent running, fairly original, 60's car like this would be valued at (and go for) the prices they seem to be. If I was looking for just a cool "Sunday driver" (between lack of A/C - death wish here is S. FL, and relentless summer rain and high humidity, daily driver use is definitely out) and a keeper to eventually restore, and had the money and room for it, I think it's a cool car and would probably buy it. I guess I'm so used to the "premium" amounts that "popular" classics go for that I never realized you could get into a pretty cool (and even more unique - which is a plus to me!) car for a reasonable amount of money!

I'm a little disappointed since, besides the car looking like a super-fun driver and a possibly good investment, you Olds guys seem like a great bunch of people! After spending several hours going through your forums researching and reading, I found myself getting drawn in and catching your Olds "bug"! While driving around town running errands yesterday, I immediately recognized a '70-'72 Cutlass with 4-4-2 badges on it - before I even got close enough to verify it - and chuckled to myself....not sure i would have ID'd the car so quickly, or had as much appreciation for the car, before. Who knows...maybe one day I'll "join the club"!

Have fun guys and thanks again!

gearheads78

If you are in it to be able to get out quick a whole bunch more people seem to like the 70-72 with the 70 being the most popular. The 64-65 cars have a very small overall following then 66-67 and then 68-69 in that order. I go against the grain with my favorite being 66-67 car and 64-65 a close second. If you want to pay $3500.00 for that car did you offer that with cash in hand? You never know unless you ask.

1965CUTLASSHOLIDAY

I haven't asked, but you're right...cash always talks! I think the reason why I'm leaning away from it now is the fact that it's a bit more of a "project" than I had initially thought. I'm not in a position now (and probably won't be for a while) where I can really take on a full restore. And as you saw, I'm not sure how long I could fend off the "cancer" and just drive and enjoy it as it is. Also, even at $3500, if I can only pull $4000 out of it, it's definitely not a "strong" investment. If I could snag it for $3500 and know I could pull $5000 back out of it at anytime, that I "MAY" be able to convince the other half on it....

I'm not totally ruling it out....in fact, I will be in the area where the car is sitting in just a few hours and am curious if it's even still there!

'Nother question for you guys....

If I were to install A/C, which is basically necessary here 8 months out of the year, what are my options? Factory or aftermarket? Costs? And how will it affect resale value? If I throw A/C in it, will it cost me $12-1500?? And will I get it all back at resale or will it actually reduce it's value? I think I know the answer to this one, lol....

jaunty75

They're just fresh air vents that you control with that **** by simply pulling on it, and they let fresh air in down around your legs. They were very common in cars before the days when air-conditioning became essentially standard equipment. You could open them when it was raining as you wouldn't want to open the window if it was, and you also would avoid the road and wind noise that comes with opening the window. I once read the feature described as the poor man's air-conditioning.

1965CUTLASSHOLIDAY

Makes perfect sense...just never physically used or "seen" them before! Let me tell you - if it's not being cooled, you're still screwed here in the summer!

BTW - rode by earlier this evening and the car's still there.... If only it didn't look so good on the OUTSIDE, it would make it so much easier to resist!! LOL

jaunty75

We had different definitions of comfort and discomfort back in those days.

jaunty75

Face it. The car is calling you. No car is going to be perfect, and this one does look good. Give it a good look-over, decide on what it might need and if you're up to it skill-wise and/or money-wise, and then make him an offer you can live with if he accepts it. If he says no, at least you gave it a shot. But don't give in to emotion and pay more than you should because you'll have buyer's remorse later. You'll probably have some buyer's remorse, anyway, no matter what you pay, as you'll suddenly think my god, what have I gotten myself into!? But you won't have AS MUCH buyer's remorse if you're careful with your money.

silverriff

You have not driven it, correct? I would maybe talk to the owner and see if you could take it for a spin to see how it feels. I am much more of a body guy then an engine/trans guy. They body can always be fixed to some degree to at least make it acceptable ( I'm in the process of spray bomb priming my 72 in my driveway) But if you took it for a drive and it just feels really bad, it would probably take more time and money to get it to feel right mechanically. If you have a few patchs of rust, or some holes in the floors, no biggie, as long as it starts and can get you around without worrying about it. Just my opinion!

1965CUTLASSHOLIDAY

LOL, apparently! Being a fairly young guy, I don't have the firsthand experience of what it was like in those prehistoric () pre-A/C days! Although I did have to live without A/C in my first car temporarily, and you make do....

You are definitely right about no car being perfect - ESPECIALLY one that is 45 years old!! I do like the look of the car...and confirming the car does have the 4 barrel/315 hp. Rocket engine does pique my interest in it that much more. (though I'd SO MUCH prefer a 4 speed....) I also like the fact that the car is totally complete (trim pieces/original radio/dash/seats/seatbelts/etc.) so when the car does eventually get restored, it's all there. And of course, it is supposedly very drivable and road-ready....all good things.

I think my issue is exactly what you've said - How much can I get the car for (and how much is the car WORTH) that I can feel comfortable with the purchase? ESPECIALLY if it turns from a fun, enjoyable keeper/long-term project to something I need to "flip" out of. In addition, I have space/housing issues right now that make this a more complicated situation to convince the other half on....

Great points. I would say overall, right now, this vehicle is acceptable to me, body/cosmetics-wise. Would I like to see it cleaned up and improved upon over time? Sure. But I would be very happy taking it to "classic car nights", drive-ins, and gatherings just as it is!

Now, drivetrain-wise, I'm not as sure about. Having not driven it yet, I don't know firsthand what I'm looking at. The fact that the car leaks some oil doesn't bother me too much. But burning oil, a little. Owner says drum brakes have been serviced recently and that he drives it every couple weekends and gets it on the highway to make sure he runs it out fairly regularly. Tires look low on air, so not sure how much truth there is to that, at least recently.... I will say this: When I went to see it (owner had someone meet me with keys), he instructed me to pump the pedal a few times, then depress pedal to floor (activates "automatic" choke, so he said???) and turn key. I did - and the thing fired up impressively fast!!

But you're right....physically driving a car tells you soooo much. And as you said...if it drives/rides/tracks like crap, it's gonna cost you some $$$ to get it right, and it's not gonna be as enjoyable to own it if you're not happy driving it. I am afraid to drive it...A) I don't want to waste the guy's time if I'm not really serious about it, and B) What if I fall in love with it??? Just firing it up, planting that pedal a few times, and hearing and feeling the "growl" had me VERY interested - hence the time I've taken to research and learn more about the car and it's value....

Ddbord

I've got two cowl vents on "Blue Belle" and also the 330 2- barrel carb. The 10.5 to 1 compression on her makes 260 hp (feels like more) and the car in question will be a bomb!

Buy it. You know you want it! But don't buy it to make money on it. You know you really want the car. Take your time fixing it up and I know you'll keep it! Best wishes on your new Olds!

--Don

1965CUTLASSHOLIDAY

So your larger/heavier 88 has the 2 barrel/260 hp 330 and you're happy with it, performance-wise? If so, I imagine I would be reasonably happy with the performance of this car's 315 hp.....I mean, bigger is always better...but as we know, moving into the 4-4-2 means a significant price jump too. What do you mean by "the car in question will be a bomb"??

You guys are a great help and fun to talk to and all....but a BAD influence - or so my wife would say!

Ddbord

I mean, like me my driving car is a 3.8L Grand Caravan, and my wife's car is a Buick Park Avenue 3.8L and my 5.4L will suck both of those "up the exhaust pipe!" You'll have plenty of "GO." A Bomb!

I think both cars are some of the prettiest cars ever built. Mine doesn't have any badges, but wherever I cruise, heads turn. Imagine what your will do. Tell your wife that you need that car! [/quote]

--Don

stan 65 cutlass

i paid $6500 for mine, its not as rust free as that one, up here though that doesnt buy much. mine is a four speed car though, doesnt have correct engine either, $3500 or $4000 sounds good if heel go. good luck

Boldsmobile

How long has it been for sale? Should gauge whether anyone in the area thinks its worth that.

How solid is the floor under the spot in the rug?

Offer 3200, he just might take it. There is no harm in low balling. Dont be bashful. Its your money. Worse he can do is say no.

If he doesnt take the 3200 he will likely counter at his low price. For sure its worth more than 3200 but nothing wrong with being into the car for less than its value. Restoration is a expensive and slippery slope.


If you offer 4000 there is a chance he will counter at half way to 5000.

Always offer less than what you want to pay because you have no room to negotiate.

Want me come down there a negotiate for you ?

1965CUTLASSHOLIDAY

Ahhh, gotcha! Gotta say, even after all the research I've done on 60's and 70's Olds, I really like the look of this particular vintage ('65) Cutlass, especially the post-less Holiday...although a drop-top would very cool, too. As gear said, '70-72, like for most people, does it for me too...but to me it's a very different style, look, and "era", if you will, in the Cutlass name. It is definitely not the "muscle car" that the '70-72s were and more of "your father's car" (or in my case, my GRANDfather's car, I guess, lol )

Been for sale for 2-3 weeks now....I imagine he's had a good amount of action and looks, which of course tells us that either the right person hasn't come along, or as you've said, the generally consensus is that the car is no great deal at the asking price. Also could say the guy is willing to hold out to get what he wants for it, if he's already been offered less. With that said, I think if the car got the right exposure, internet-wise, he could probably get very close to his asking price, if not all of it. The exposure it would get would greatly increase the chances of finding that someone that knows what it is and appreciates it.

As for the floor, it actually felt pretty solid - without getting under the rug though, it's hard to tell how far along the rot is. It's definitely "bubbled" up under there though! As you can see from the pictures though, the underside doesn't look horrible - definitely not through anywhere. A little weird to me how much rust there is on the INSIDE...not just the floors, but under the dash - vs. under the car. Makes me wonder why and leads me to believe the car wasn't always garaged and water somehow, somewhere was getting inside. Not sure humidity alone (though we have plenty!) could produce that....

I'm a ruthless negotiator - no worries there! And I absolutely won't pay more for the car than I can get back out of it - can't AFFORD to! I think my issue is less with my negotiation skills and more with not having the comfort level (knowledge of current valuations, model/options differences, etc.) with older cars like this to know what the car is really worth, hence where I even want to be, IF I want to be, into the car.

The bigger obstacle, for which I might need Don's help with, is convincing the wife that I "NEED this car", lol! Not to mention the space/storage constraints for another car or project, which is a whole other "obstacle"....

1965CUTLASSHOLIDAY

I would be willing to pay a premium for the 4 speed, for sure. Less "issues" (I hate automatics) and more fun to drive, by far! Although, this car is semi-sporty with it's bucket seats, floor/console shifter, and tach.... Night and day difference in driveability though, especially on the highway, between a 2 spd. auto and 4 speed anything, lol.

silverriff

Where are you located at? I think that the price of the car, or how much it's worth, greatly depends on your location. Some areas of the country just don't have access to decent cars like this, in which case you would probably pay a premium just to be able to drive it home. Sure with eBay, craigslist, etc. you have much broader access to cars, but 1: you sometimes can't see it in person before you buy, which I would never do and 2: actually getting it back to your house by driving it or a short tow. I'm sure you could find a great deal somewhere else, but if you have to pay a grand or more to have it shipped to you, that kind of cancels out the grea initial deal. I live in Baltimore where a lot of cars come to die, with all the freaking salt the city sprays during the winter. So when I got my 72 I paid more then I really thought it was worth, just because in my area, finding something that wasen't complete Swiss cheese, fetches a premium. After looking through this site, most of the guys on here probably wouldn't have paid $2,000 bucks for mine. I paid more than twice that. So anyway, my point is that you kind of have to look at the availability of these types of cars in your area. If they are a dime a dozen, it may be better off looking for a better deal. If fairly solid cars are pretty rare, you may just have to pay what you have to pay.

mmcilroy

My first car was a 65 olds and have missed it from the day I sold it. I would drive it and if it went straight and ran well I would have to make the $3200 offer and see what happened, probably top out at the $4000 mark. Up here just about everything is a rust bucket so that car looks great to me. Keep us updated!

I might have to get stupid and buy it and try and drive it back to Buffalo. What a great road trip that would be, I'm sure I could dig up some of my high school buddies for that one, we had a lot of good times in my old 65. Car was bullet proof, never let me down. Even submerged it, window deep one night driving through a flooded area of town after some bad weather (most of what we drove through was only a foot deep, miss judged that last stretch though ). Went back the next morning after the water receded, towed it home, changed the oil (pulled the plug over a 6 quart container and water started to pour out, by the time the oil started draining the container was already full of water and I dumped 5 quarts of oil on my fathers driveway). Then ran about 50 quarts of tranny fluid through it until it came out clear and drove it that afternoon. Ran it for years after that before I sold it.
Ahhh, to be young and stupid again.........

1965CUTLASSHOLIDAY

Very good points. I have come to realize that prices, especially for certain vehicles, definitely vary regionally. For example, clean 4x4 vehicles can sometimes command a premium down here in South Florida, where there are simply fewer to chose from. I imagine finding fairly clean, low rust older vehicles up north means you will pay a premium for a vehicle in this one's condition. This is why I say I think the current owner could easily get what he's asking if he expanded his "marketing". BUT, you don't find the number of "classic" cars, or "barn finds" down here, (I feel) meaning you don't come across reasonably priced (sub-$6000) classics in this nice of shape too often, at least in my experience....

Awesome story man - too funny!!

That would be one heck of a trip I bet - driving it home! Might cost you more in gas for the trip home than it would to fly down, but I bet it would be worth every penny!

Ddbord

Tell Your Sweetie that......

......................She could be the Lady in the Brochure!



--Don

1965CUTLASSHOLIDAY

LOVE IT!! You're a smooth guy there Don...she might just go for that!!

DarrylJ

I agree with what everybody was saying, especially us in the northeast where 2005 cars are rotted out already! It looks like a decent driver. Where in S. Florida are you? I have a friend in Cape Coral and he tells me that old cars to buy are hard to find in his area! I would try to buy it and just drive it during the cooler months that you do get! Heck, my cars sit in a garage covered up for about 6 months out of the year here so just let it sit when its 95 out!

Oldsguy

Nobody really answered your question about adding AC and how it would affect the value of the car. I would respond to take one more step back and re-consider if you really, really, need AC. I spent 4 years in Okinawa and the weather there is just as hot and humid for just as long. Most of our cars were NOT air conditioned (back then) as most service people could not afford the newer cars that had it. We learned to live with it and I had a wife and toddler and a baby. The only times it was really bad was when it rained and without the AC to dry the air it took longer to clear the windows. You know, after getting in all wet from rain and then fogging up the inside. I would suggest you could learn to live without the AC unless you have some extenuating circumstances such as wearing a 3 piece suit to work every day and that would make you unpresentable to the business world.
I also believe you should drive it and see how it feels, that can make a lot of difference. If you want to buy it then be totally honest with the guy and tell him about your reservations, mention the rust on the fuse block, the lack of AC, etc and then tell him because of that you would feel comfortable at X price. As was suggested a nice low end figure that would leave you room to wiggle. I really think you need to think more about it before you dismiss it altogether. Probably most members here can tell stories of "the one that got away" the car they dismissed to quickly and did not buy and now they wish they would have bought.
Whatever you decide, keep with us here. If you finally do decide not to get that car, I bet we can help you find another sooner or later. We would love to keep you as a member of the club.

redoldsman

I think in your situation, I would pass on the car due to the lack of AC and the rust around the windows. That will be a lot of work and serious $$$ to fix. This price is not bad and I like the car. I just don't think it will really make you happy. If you could buy it for about 3 grand, it might be a different story.

therobski

You have to keep in mind this is a hobby for most. All hobbies have an expense attached to it. This can be an expensive hobby. If I ever thought I could re-sell any of the cars that I currently own and come out ahead I would have not bought any of them. I do understand that you want to buy your project for a little as you can. But if buying the car for 4K makes you grin go for it.

65az

Wow... it is almost a twin to mine.