1971 442 W30 Convet 4 speed
September 28th, 2018, 03:26 PM
#1
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1971 442 W30 Convet 4 speed
I am surprised this has not become the talk of the town here yet?
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...39041406959140
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...39041406959140
September 28th, 2018, 04:21 PM
#2
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Well, for me it's because I don't hang out on facebook so I have no idea what's happening there.
But wow. That fella thinks the car is a "fair condition daily driver"? Looks like a basket case to me.
But wow. That fella thinks the car is a "fair condition daily driver"? Looks like a basket case to me.
September 28th, 2018, 05:22 PM
#3
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Location: Ft. Wayne, IN
Posts: 1,195
From Haggerty's description of a #4 car, that one is at least a #6. "...flaws visible to the naked eye...…"?? Please. A frame-off candidate no doubt, but anything less on that car (assuming it IS legit) would be pissing in the ocean.
Here is a number $20,000.00 maybe no more .thing is a basket case IMO
September 30th, 2018, 09:59 AM
#7
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Location: Delta BC Canada
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4 speed W-30 convertible
A rare car indeed. Hopefully the car gets the restoration it deserves.
The $80000 asking price and the pending 6 digit restoration it needs will eliminate all but the wealthiest of enthusiasts from the game.
The $80000 asking price and the pending 6 digit restoration it needs will eliminate all but the wealthiest of enthusiasts from the game.
W 31
October 1st, 2018, 03:39 PM
#9
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Just to clarify the rareness of this car.
Only 32 were built with a 4 speed
21 have been accounted for , 18 are complete or roadworthy.
8 are confirmed with their original engine.
most except this one has M22 trans
This car appears to have M20.
The color combination is 1 of 1
This would be a stunning car restored
All indications are it was a special order.
I have no financial interest in its sale.
Only 32 were built with a 4 speed
21 have been accounted for , 18 are complete or roadworthy.
8 are confirmed with their original engine.
most except this one has M22 trans
This car appears to have M20.
The color combination is 1 of 1
This would be a stunning car restored
All indications are it was a special order.
I have no financial interest in its sale.
October 1st, 2018, 03:58 PM
#10
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Delta BC Canada
Posts: 3,688
Just to clarify the rareness of this car.
Only 32 were built with a 4 speed
21 have been accounted for , 18 are complete or roadworthy.
8 are confirmed with their original engine.
most except this one has M22 trans
This car appears to have M20.
The color combination is 1 of 1
This would be a stunning car restored
All indications are it was a special order.
I have no financial interest in its sale.
Only 32 were built with a 4 speed
21 have been accounted for , 18 are complete or roadworthy.
8 are confirmed with their original engine.
most except this one has M22 trans
This car appears to have M20.
The color combination is 1 of 1
This would be a stunning car restored
All indications are it was a special order.
I have no financial interest in its sale.
I conquer that it may well be 1 of 1 but are the colors combos known for all thirty-two of the 1971 four speed speed convertible W-30 cars? If so where is this information?
thanks in advance
October 1st, 2018, 04:25 PM
#11
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I am not confining my info to the 4 speed cars only but taking into consideration the 110 W30 convertibles. The color is Sable Brown,very rare on a 442, combine that with the Sienna interior and Parchment top.
I have gathered info for over 35 years on the 1971 442 Convert with W30 option.. I have gathered either through direct inspection or a lot of contact with one time owners on their cars finding out about Repaints and other changes.
On the info I have gathered ,my database I have data on 87 of the reported 110 built, not all are still in existence or near original.
Of the six sable Brown W30 converts here is what I know.
This car as described'
Brown White Interior white top white stripes,4 speed car residing in California with a reputable collector who has owned since 1980, Repainted Red because he did not like Brown.
Brown Sienna Interior,white top,white stripes,4 speed car residing in Conn with a reputable collector who has owned for 20 years.
Brown, Black Int,black top white stripes,4 speed car, sold new out of upper NY state, purchased by a BC Olds guy, parted out, sold body to a guy in Quesnel BC who turned it into a reto mod. It was a numbers matching car prior to this and could have been saved.
2 other Sable brown cars are autos with White Tops,interior and stripes.
Based on this I am confident to sate this is one of One, if I had to ad a disclaimer I would ad "known to exist".
I have gathered info for over 35 years on the 1971 442 Convert with W30 option.. I have gathered either through direct inspection or a lot of contact with one time owners on their cars finding out about Repaints and other changes.
On the info I have gathered ,my database I have data on 87 of the reported 110 built, not all are still in existence or near original.
Of the six sable Brown W30 converts here is what I know.
This car as described'
Brown White Interior white top white stripes,4 speed car residing in California with a reputable collector who has owned since 1980, Repainted Red because he did not like Brown.
Brown Sienna Interior,white top,white stripes,4 speed car residing in Conn with a reputable collector who has owned for 20 years.
Brown, Black Int,black top white stripes,4 speed car, sold new out of upper NY state, purchased by a BC Olds guy, parted out, sold body to a guy in Quesnel BC who turned it into a reto mod. It was a numbers matching car prior to this and could have been saved.
2 other Sable brown cars are autos with White Tops,interior and stripes.
Based on this I am confident to sate this is one of One, if I had to ad a disclaimer I would ad "known to exist".
October 1st, 2018, 04:44 PM
#12
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Location: Delta BC Canada
Posts: 3,688
1 of 1
I am not confining my info to the 4 speed cars only but taking into consideration the 110 W30 convertibles. The color is Sable Brown,very rare on a 442, combine that with the Sienna interior and Parchment top.
I have gathered info for over 35 years on the 1971 442 Convert with W30 option.. I have gathered either through direct inspection or a lot of contact with one time owners on their cars finding out about Repaints and other changes.
On the info I have gathered ,my database I have data on 87 of the reported 110 built, not all are still in existence or near original.
Of the six sable Brown W30 converts here is what I know.
This car as described'
Brown White Interior white top white stripes,4 speed car residing in California with a reputable collector who has owned since 1980, Repainted Red because he did not like Brown.
Brown Sienna Interior,white top,white stripes,4 speed car residing in Conn with a reputable collector who has owned for 20 years.
Brown, Black Int,black top white stripes,4 speed car, sold new out of upper NY state, purchased by a BC Olds guy, parted out, sold body to a guy in Quesnel BC who turned it into a reto mod. It was a numbers matching car prior to this and could have been saved.
2 other Sable brown cars are autos with White Tops,interior and stripes.
Based on this I am confident to sate this is one of One, if I had to ad a disclaimer I would ad "known to exist".
I have gathered info for over 35 years on the 1971 442 Convert with W30 option.. I have gathered either through direct inspection or a lot of contact with one time owners on their cars finding out about Repaints and other changes.
On the info I have gathered ,my database I have data on 87 of the reported 110 built, not all are still in existence or near original.
Of the six sable Brown W30 converts here is what I know.
This car as described'
Brown White Interior white top white stripes,4 speed car residing in California with a reputable collector who has owned since 1980, Repainted Red because he did not like Brown.
Brown Sienna Interior,white top,white stripes,4 speed car residing in Conn with a reputable collector who has owned for 20 years.
Brown, Black Int,black top white stripes,4 speed car, sold new out of upper NY state, purchased by a BC Olds guy, parted out, sold body to a guy in Quesnel BC who turned it into a reto mod. It was a numbers matching car prior to this and could have been saved.
2 other Sable brown cars are autos with White Tops,interior and stripes.
Based on this I am confident to sate this is one of One, if I had to ad a disclaimer I would ad "known to exist".
October 1st, 2018, 05:06 PM
#13
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 124
I’m not sure but I may of met the person that owns this car he showed me pictures of it and I do remember it being a brown W30 car all original convertible . I’m sure the car is worth a lot probably more then a lot out there the car I talked to the guy about had never been apart and did have its original H heads . I don’t remember him taking about selling it though.
He doesn’t live that far away from me
He doesn’t live that far away from me
October 2nd, 2018, 11:33 AM
#14
Alan Reedy
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 197
I am not confining my info to the 4 speed cars only but taking into consideration the 110 W30 convertibles. The color is Sable Brown,very rare on a 442, combine that with the Sienna interior and Parchment top.
I have gathered info for over 35 years on the 1971 442 Convert with W30 option.. I have gathered either through direct inspection or a lot of contact with one time owners on their cars finding out about Repaints and other changes.
On the info I have gathered ,my database I have data on 87 of the reported 110 built, not all are still in existence or near original.
I have gathered info for over 35 years on the 1971 442 Convert with W30 option.. I have gathered either through direct inspection or a lot of contact with one time owners on their cars finding out about Repaints and other changes.
On the info I have gathered ,my database I have data on 87 of the reported 110 built, not all are still in existence or near original.
Bottom line is, based on your research and the data you have accumulated, do you have information on this one that spent time here in Rhode Island? I often wondered what happened to that car.
October 2nd, 2018, 01:06 PM
#15
Alan Reedy
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 197
Just to clarify the rareness of this car.
Only 32 were built with a 4 speed
21 have been accounted for , 18 are complete or roadworthy.
8 are confirmed with their original engine.
most except this one has M22 trans
This car appears to have M20.
The color combination is 1 of 1
This would be a stunning car restored
All indications are it was a special order.
I have no financial interest in its sale.
Only 32 were built with a 4 speed
21 have been accounted for , 18 are complete or roadworthy.
8 are confirmed with their original engine.
most except this one has M22 trans
This car appears to have M20.
The color combination is 1 of 1
This would be a stunning car restored
All indications are it was a special order.
I have no financial interest in its sale.
October 2nd, 2018, 01:39 PM
#16
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 244
The presence of a Z code in the trim area is a mystery as far as Olds historians are concerned. This car was sold new in Delaware and still has the dealer tag on the trunk. The popular belief, with no way to confirm is that the Z code was for a customer ordered car. It is present on a lot of build sheets for 1970 and early build 1971.
Paul
Paul
October 2nd, 2018, 01:51 PM
#17
Alan Reedy
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 197
I am not confining my info to the 4 speed cars only but taking into consideration the 110 W30 convertibles. The color is Sable Brown,very rare on a 442, combine that with the Sienna interior and Parchment top.
I have gathered info for over 35 years on the 1971 442 Convert with W30 option.. I have gathered either through direct inspection or a lot of contact with one time owners on their cars finding out about Repaints and other changes.
On the info I have gathered ,my database I have data on 87 of the reported 110 built, not all are still in existence or near original.
Of the six sable Brown W30 converts here is what I know.
This car as described'
Brown White Interior white top white stripes,4 speed car residing in California with a reputable collector who has owned since 1980, Repainted Red because he did not like Brown.
Brown Sienna Interior,white top,white stripes,4 speed car residing in Conn with a reputable collector who has owned for 20 years.
Brown, Black Int,black top white stripes,4 speed car, sold new out of upper NY state, purchased by a BC Olds guy, parted out, sold body to a guy in Quesnel BC who turned it into a reto mod. It was a numbers matching car prior to this and could have been saved.
2 other Sable brown cars are autos with White Tops,interior and stripes.
Based on this I am confident to sate this is one of One, if I had to ad a disclaimer I would ad "known to exist".
I have gathered info for over 35 years on the 1971 442 Convert with W30 option.. I have gathered either through direct inspection or a lot of contact with one time owners on their cars finding out about Repaints and other changes.
On the info I have gathered ,my database I have data on 87 of the reported 110 built, not all are still in existence or near original.
Of the six sable Brown W30 converts here is what I know.
This car as described'
Brown White Interior white top white stripes,4 speed car residing in California with a reputable collector who has owned since 1980, Repainted Red because he did not like Brown.
Brown Sienna Interior,white top,white stripes,4 speed car residing in Conn with a reputable collector who has owned for 20 years.
Brown, Black Int,black top white stripes,4 speed car, sold new out of upper NY state, purchased by a BC Olds guy, parted out, sold body to a guy in Quesnel BC who turned it into a reto mod. It was a numbers matching car prior to this and could have been saved.
2 other Sable brown cars are autos with White Tops,interior and stripes.
Based on this I am confident to sate this is one of One, if I had to ad a disclaimer I would ad "known to exist".
Back around 30 years ago in the 80's I believe, there was a 1971 W-30 Convertible, Automatic, located in Rhode Island that was advertised in I think Hemmings Motor News. Anyway, long story short, A guy from somewhere around the Chicago area was interested in the car and wanted someone to check it out for him. The car had a hefty price on it for the time somewhere between 5-10K, (LOL now). Anyway, he contacted the OCA, who in turn put him in touch with me because of my experience with 442's and close proximity, (I live in Rhode Island). The car was located in East Providence, Rhode Island only about 15 miles from my house. I thoroughly examined the car and authenticated it as being an all original numbers matching car that was complete and in very nice condition. Upon receiving my report of the car, the guy in Chicago bought it sight unseen and reported back to me that he was very happy with his purchase based on my findings. I think he even sent me a check for $50 for my effort although I did it for free just to help another enthusiast. I often wondered what ever happened to that car and was wondering now if you had ever come across it with all of your research. To the best of my recollection, It was a dark green car with a white top, white stripes, and for the life of me I can't remember if the interior was white or Green. But it was located in RI. Anything?
October 2nd, 2018, 02:10 PM
#18
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 244
That matches the description of a car in my database that was reported as being parted out years ago,due to Rust. Green was not a popular color and I know many of the green cars have been repainted. I have some connections in Chicago that may be able to shed some more info if this car still exists.
October 2nd, 2018, 02:41 PM
#19
Alan Reedy
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 197
The presence of a Z code in the trim area is a mystery as far as Olds historians are concerned. This car was sold new in Delaware and still has the dealer tag on the trunk. The popular belief, with no way to confirm is that the Z code was for a customer ordered car. It is present on a lot of build sheets for 1970 and early build 1971.
Paul
Paul
October 2nd, 2018, 03:05 PM
#20
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Delta BC Canada
Posts: 3,688
z code
The Z code is no mystery. It's a Fisher Body code used to designate that the car is being built in the US for export to another country. It's a disclaimer used by Fisher Body to designate that it does not have to be in compliance with the US manufacturers requirements of the time, (Although it complies, for export it doesn't need a conformance certificate). It has nothing to do with any special options on the car. The code was only used in two plants, Lansing and Freemont, because these were the only two plants that could assemble cars for export. The code was never used on a Canadian Built car because those cars were not built in the US. Although it could have been a customer ordered car, it doesn't necessarily have to have been. Many of them that were assembled for Canada, because of our close proximity, were re-routed back to dealers in the US based on dealers orders. Others were simply exported to their destinations. If I remember correctly, it was around 71 or 72 when Fisher discontinued using it all together.
There's is a long thread here on the Z code.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...rs-1970-a.html
Last edited by oldsmobiledave; October 2nd, 2018 at 03:11 PM.
October 2nd, 2018, 03:18 PM
#21
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Posts: 244
If you follow the thread referred to bu Dave you will see reference to many cars that were built for US destinations with the Z code. I have an early build 1971 W30 , built in Lansing ,sold new in Canada with no Z code. Canadian destined cars had codes for documentation and additional antifreeze that are not referenced other than RPO.
I also have an inspectors guide that's lists all the codes for cars built for export,ie outside of North America, Z is not one of them.
I also have an inspectors guide that's lists all the codes for cars built for export,ie outside of North America, Z is not one of them.
October 2nd, 2018, 04:46 PM
#23
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 244
Me along with 500 other people wish ASX455 info was correct. It's been a debate for years , even two guys who post on here regularly and worked for Olds back in the day don't know the code. It's gone to the grave with the Fischer Body employee who initiated it.
Until we can run the statistic on every Cutlass built between 1970 and mid 1971, we can only continue to surmise.
paul
Until we can run the statistic on every Cutlass built between 1970 and mid 1971, we can only continue to surmise.
paul
October 2nd, 2018, 04:51 PM
#24
Alan Reedy
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 197
I am very new to this site having just joined about a week ago but I must be getting really old. I'm sure there are many threads on here that I will enjoy reading about because of my interest in Oldsmobiles, specifically 70-72 Cutlass's and 442's, for the better part of my younger years. I was heavily into the performance stuff back in the 70's and 80's, I started when I was a teenager in high school before I graduated in 76. I Kept buying, fixing, selling, parting out cars back when everything was still available over the counter at the dealer. All of my research and knowledge came straight from the dealers and GM at the time because there was no other source of information to inquire from. Back before the internet and google became a thing, research was done through persistent leg work and questioning. I used to ask the dealers, service reps and parts guys all about this stuff and when they didn't know the answer, they had to find out and get back to me. I was in their dealerships a lot and now that I look back on it, I must have been considered a pain in the *** by most of them. LOL, some of them were really cool though. One guy even gave me my own set of parts books to make looking up and ordering parts easier. Anyway, a Z coded car came along one time and I just nonchalantly happened to ask what the option was because the guy I got it from said it was LOL, "Special". They couldn't give me an answer so they had to ask the service manager who had to ask his manager and then the district guy and yada yada yada I figure I've just been blown off, I'm never gonna get an answer. Well I guess at least somebody was curious enough to follow up and months later I was told it's not an option at all. Its a designation for the body company that the car was destined for export and didn't need to comply with certain labeling for US conformance. (I originally thought like decals written in english). Anyway, it's not an option in itself, and that's why it won't show up on any build sheets where all of the options added to the body are listed. It's only on the body tag, and it shows up on the broadcast card because that card corresponds the interior and trim to installed based on what is listed on the body tag.
If none of this seems possible, maybe I'm just a senile old goat who's off his rocker. But before you say that, double check what others have discovered and see if any of this info fits into anywhere else with the other thoughts on the subject.
If none of this seems possible, maybe I'm just a senile old goat who's off his rocker. But before you say that, double check what others have discovered and see if any of this info fits into anywhere else with the other thoughts on the subject.
October 2nd, 2018, 05:33 PM
#26
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Agreed it's a Fisher Body code,no question. What it represents is unknown. Regardless of what someone "said" 30 years ago.
The car in this post was sold new in Delaware,how does that make it an "export" car.
welcome to the site,I am sure you will find the info valuable.
The car in this post was sold new in Delaware,how does that make it an "export" car.
welcome to the site,I am sure you will find the info valuable.
October 2nd, 2018, 05:40 PM
#27
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Location: Delta BC Canada
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October 2nd, 2018, 06:10 PM
#28
Alan Reedy
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 197
October 2nd, 2018, 06:24 PM
#29
Alan Reedy
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 197
Agreed it's a Fisher Body code,no question. What it represents is unknown. Regardless of what someone "said" 30 years ago.
The car in this post was sold new in Delaware,how does that make it an "export" car.
welcome to the site,I am sure you will find the info valuable.
The car in this post was sold new in Delaware,how does that make it an "export" car.
welcome to the site,I am sure you will find the info valuable.
October 2nd, 2018, 09:37 PM
#30
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 244
A lot of the cars shipped to Canada were shipped back over the border by dealers trading cars back and forth. Probably the only way to know for sure is to see a build sheet on a Z-code car and look at the bottom to see the dealer where the car was originally built to be shipped to or vise versa. A build sheet in this car could say it was originally destined for a dealer in Canada but somewhere turned around and sold new in Delaware. The same way some cars are sold in Canada without the Z-code. Does anyone have a car in Canada without a Z-code, where the build sheet says the car was manufactured in the US for a destination dealer in Canada? That would answer the question also.
AllW cars were built in Lansing, even the ones destined for Canada, just like two I have without any Z code.
does this help clarify the fact that Z code is not indicative of an Export car.
October 3rd, 2018, 01:03 AM
#31
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 1,580
I created a small database with around 100 Lansing built '70 Oldsmobile A-bodies - over 20% have the infamous "Z" associated with their interior codes (IMO - too many for the info to have been randomly acquired from Export ordered cars)
including:
V8 Cutlass S sport & holiday coupes w/bench & bucket seat interiors
442 convertibles, sport & holiday coupes w/bench & bucket seat interiors
Cutlass Supreme convertibles & hardtops w/bench & bucket seat interiors
included among them is the Dover Delaware W30 pace car, surely not ordered for export
export cars might have a "Z" associated with them, but not on the trim tag in the vicinity of the interior code
including:
V8 Cutlass S sport & holiday coupes w/bench & bucket seat interiors
442 convertibles, sport & holiday coupes w/bench & bucket seat interiors
Cutlass Supreme convertibles & hardtops w/bench & bucket seat interiors
included among them is the Dover Delaware W30 pace car, surely not ordered for export
export cars might have a "Z" associated with them, but not on the trim tag in the vicinity of the interior code
Last edited by hurst68olds; October 3rd, 2018 at 01:07 AM.
October 3rd, 2018, 10:56 AM
#34
Alan Reedy
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 197
Sorry
Sorry I took the thread off its course. As I said, I am new to the site and after reading some of the recommended threads associated with this Z-code thing, it is apparent to me that many more knowledgeable people than I, have devoted some serious time into divulging its true meaning. Had I been following along through the years of it all, I'm sure I would have already seen someone somewhere produce a factory document on an A-body car, that either 1) has a Z-code and was originally built for a US destination, or 2) does not have a Z-code and was originally built for a Canadian or other country destination. Either way would have shot down anything I have said. Anyway, I'm glad I threw my .02 cents in if it could help anyone in any certain way, (LOL even at the expense of making myself look like an idiot). This is an amazing site with some amazing networking going on. I'm sure I will enjoy many hours of reading and interaction with various people on different subjects.
PS. I think this 71 W-30 convertible definitely needs restoring, but in my opinion, the seller is being unrealistic with his asking price.
PS. I think this 71 W-30 convertible definitely needs restoring, but in my opinion, the seller is being unrealistic with his asking price.
October 3rd, 2018, 11:23 AM
#35
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Posts: 244
asx 455, your input is welcome and you will find this site a good source for info and clarification even if some of the respondents get a little testy with their replies.
We are dealing with a Marque that has a lot of unanswered questions due to a lack of historical information, so it will remain for a mystery until we find the answer to these other questions:
Who shot John Kennedy?
Is their life on Mars?
What does the "z" code really mean?
Is their life after death?
Was 911 a conspiracy?
We are dealing with a Marque that has a lot of unanswered questions due to a lack of historical information, so it will remain for a mystery until we find the answer to these other questions:
Who shot John Kennedy?
Is their life on Mars?
What does the "z" code really mean?
Is their life after death?
Was 911 a conspiracy?
October 3rd, 2018, 11:57 AM
#39
Alan Reedy
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 197
The broadcast card absolutely proves its authenticity. The key word here is originality of all the W-30 hard to find specific parts. Even if it has them all original to the car, the cars condition is still pushing the envelope with the asking price.
October 3rd, 2018, 01:42 PM
#40
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Delta BC Canada
Posts: 3,688
Sorry I took the thread off its course. As I said, I am new to the site and after reading some of the recommended threads associated with this Z-code thing, it is apparent to me that many more knowledgeable people than I, have devoted some serious time into divulging its true meaning. Had I been following along through the years of it all, I'm sure I would have already seen someone somewhere produce a factory document on an A-body car, that either 1) has a Z-code and was originally built for a US destination, or 2) does not have a Z-code and was originally built for a Canadian or other country destination. Either way would have shot down anything I have said. Anyway, I'm glad I threw my .02 cents in if it could help anyone in any certain way, (LOL even at the expense of making myself look like an idiot). This is an amazing site with some amazing networking going on. I'm sure I will enjoy many hours of reading and interaction with various people on different subjects.
PS. I think this 71 W-30 convertible definitely needs restoring, but in my opinion, the seller is being unrealistic with his asking price.
PS. I think this 71 W-30 convertible definitely needs restoring, but in my opinion, the seller is being unrealistic with his asking price.
welcome to the site.
Will the car for sale change hands at $80000 USD? Perhaps only the seller and the next owner will ever know.
