Ronolds3344

Car is up for auction currently just search Oldsmobile rallye on eBay.
You can read the details there

Joffroi

Very cool car. Link to help out.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oldsmobile-C...m=252525960577

ddd777

Actually, if you search "Oldsmobile rallye" on eBay, a whole bunch of toys come up.

So here is the link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oldsmobile-C...-/252525960577

anthonyP

Ad says all original drive train A/C car with 3.42 rear axle ratio.

anthonyP

The attached documents show a window sticker with air conditioning and 3.42 posi rear axle.

According to sales and dealer order books, air conditioning was not available with anything numerically higher than 3.23 gears.

What gives with this car?

jstrits

window sticker looks fake to me.

oldsmobiledave

There has been several threads on classic olds discussing a/c equipped cars & 3.42 gears. Yes 3.23 was the accepted standard but apparently there were some exceptions.

jensenracing77

But I have yet to see one with a real document to back it up. So far the only documents I have seen from Oldsmobile is that it is not available.

anthonyP

It is interesting though that a 1970 442 with a 4-speed was not suppose to be able to be ordered with A/C due to the M-21 and 3.23 conflict, but they were built. Never could determine if Olds just allowed the M-21 and 3.23, or installed the HD M-20 with the 3.23 gears. The attached build sheet seems to show it was the former.

With this known, it is doubtful Olds installed 3.42 gears with A/C, especially since other models with a 350 were available with the M-20, with it's lower first gear, making it more compatible with the 3.23 gears.

jensenracing77

I have seen a rallye 350 with an M-20 before and always assumed it was original to the car but I do not know that for sure. I did not check the numbers on that car.

anthonyP

Mostly likely the wide ratio was probably original, as the M-20 and M-21 were both available in the Rallye, with or without A/C. According to the order form, you just could not order A/C with the M-21 due to the gear ratios required with it.

Olds64

I noticed that the seller said "all original," but it has a Mallory distributor and air bags in the back. At least he has the original distributor. If you're into that kind of thing...

oldsmobiledave

Why did you put HD in front of the M-20? The M-20 did not receive updates until 1971.

oldsmobiledave

The carb is far from original.

anthonyP

The W-machine and other literature seems to note that the M-20 that was installed in the W-31 was Heavy Duty, which is the same supposedly installed in the Rallye's. Is that incorrect?

anthonyP

The dealership stated they checked the rear axle code and it is SH - 3.42 w/posi

Messages with dealership selling Rallye:

New message from: ronnies_best (332 )

This is not the first documented car to come from Oldsmobile like this. If you do your research there are other documented cases of Oldsmobile sending 342 cars to dealers with AC.
Its rare....but they are out there.
Makes this car very unique and the documentation proving it all comes with the car.
All the AC components are factory. Nothing was added later.

Reply

Your previous message
So the Rallye was ordered with A/C, bucket seats, and 3.42 posi ratio rear axle, but it was delivered to the dealership with the 3.42 posi rear axle, but no air conditioning, and a bench seat. The buyer then told the dealer to convert the Rallye to bucket seats and air conditioning or he was not taking ownership. At that point the dealership performed the A/C conversion and bucket seat installation. Is that correct, according to what the seller told you?

ronnies_best:
I'm only telling you what the prior owner told me.
The original order form...in the last picture states he ordered the car with air conditioning and a 342 rear end.
The dealership told him he couldn't do that....and he said fine then ill buy somewhere else.
And they went ahead and did it for him. Along with bucket seats. The car was supposed to have a bench seat.
Its not a fact that no cars with AC did not have 342. In fact its up for debate. But I have an original window sticker....and a original order form that shows the car had both. And I have a car sitting here with both.
So what more do you need?

Your previous message
Sorry, but are you saying the dealership installed the air conditioning at the buyer's request, or the buyer/dealership pushed Oldsmobile to build the Rallye with air conditioning and 3.42 gears?

ronnies_best:
Right, he made the dealer install the AC with the 342.
If you do your research Oldsmobile had a hard time selling these cars. So they would do what the customers wanted to get the cat sold.
Including chrome the bumpers and add trim rings.
He also demanded bucket seats. And they obliged.
The rear axle is 342. I absolutely guarantee that.

Your previous message
According to the order sheet, the 3.42 gears were not available with A/C. What is the code stamped on the rear axle?

ronnies_best:
To answer your question yes its original 342.
I'm 100% positive.

Your previous message
Are you certain the rear axle ratio is 3.42?

oldsmobiledave

That would imply that there are two different M-20s in 1970 but I don think that is correct.

Was the M-20 used on a W-31? I thought they were all M-21 cars. Anyone?

anthonyP

Going by the W-Machine brochure, a M-21 or M-20 was available in a W-31. Is the brochure incorrect?

Sorry, I tried to show the brochure but could not get the image to properly upload.

oldsmobiledave

No I suspect that the brochure is correct. I was asking not telling.


Certainly 3.91 gear cars would not be M-20 but rather M-21. I guess the 3.42 cars got the M-20. I thought 3.23 was the cut off for the M-20 but perhaps I was wrong (different in 1972 when ONLY the M-20 was available).


However I have no evidence of an HD version of the M-20. M-20s got upgrades & improvements in 1971. Show me an HD M-20 and what made it HD vs standard M-20. Anyone?

anthonyP

Surprisingly, the W-Machine brochure and the Inspector's Guide both show the 3-speed manual M-14 being standard in the W-31, and the M-20 & M-21 being available.

According to the Inspector's Guide, a 350 engine was available with an M-20 and either 3.42 & 3.90 ratios, but only without A/C and if V01/02 is ordered.

anthonyP

Final say from the dealership:

The engine bay would be different if it was a non AC car.
Its my fault I didn't explain it well.
Its factory AC and Factory 3.42 Posi
The buckets were added by dealership.
I appreciate the interest.

Reply

If the documentation presented by the dealer is valid, could this be one of those 3.42 & A/C cars that were supposedly built by the factory - including an M-21 trans?

1969w3155

This shows the M20 with 3:91's for the '68 Ram Rod.

1970cs

I would agree! No dealer code or sales order number! I going out on branch here but the Ralley 350 order sheet has the region code, but no dealer number.

This one, would be legit! Not a ralley but correct


Pat

1969w3155

I agree on the window sticker, the dealer info as mentioned, is lacking, the font appears to be different (compared to my '69's window sticker) and the sport wheel would not be listed on the bottom as standard equipment.

Koda

Anytime a seller tells you "if you do your research," you should probably walk. No profit comes from dealing with jerks.