bob p

I'm doing a complete brake overhaul on my Super 88 -- replacing all of the hydraulics and lines. I've got a question for you guys who have used Nickel-Copper alloy lines.

Are you using anything special when it comes to the tube nuts? Specifically, are you using the plain old brass-looking steel tube nuts, or are you using the black-oxide coated steel tube nuts?

The reason that I ask is because the plain old steel (but look like brass) tube nuts are available everywhere, and the corrosion-restant black-oxide coated nuts that are advertised for use with NiCopp lines are impossible to find locally.

As an example, I see that AGS is now marketing their "NiCopp" lines here in the USA, and the auto parts stores are carrying them in inventory. Today I can buy my choice of any of their 3 families of brake lines (Standard Steel, Poly-Armour (coated) or NiCopp) at my local AutoZone or Advanced Auto Parts. Not too long ago I would have had to mail-order a spool of nickel-copper line, but today my neighborhood car parts store has them in-stock. The only problem is that my local parts stores don't carry the black-oxide coated nuts, they're only carrying the common variety of old-school steel nuts.

In dealing with corroded lines in the past, it always seemed that the line itself is what had corroded, and the corrosion would fill the orifice in the tube nut until the line was captured within the tube nut and removal wasn't possible without twisting the line. With the nickel-copper lines it seems that I should be able to eliminate the rusty line problem, but I'm concerned about having the old-type tube nuts rust away, moving the weak link in the chain from the tubing itself to the tube nut.

If I'm going to use nickel-copper lines, is it OK to use the old-style nuts with them, or do I need to special order the black-oxide coated nuts?

Thanks in advance.

rustyroger

The steel tube nuts should be fine, to stop the nut binding on the tube smear a little copper based grease on the tube before fitting it.
Oxide coated fitting are a better but more expensive solution, I have always fitted steel nuts with smear of grease, and undone them again years later with no problems.

Roger.

bob p

Thanks for the advice. I just finished a complete plumbing overhaul with NiCopp branded tubing. I think there are some pros / cons with using NiCopp, so I thought I'd pass on my comments in case anyone finds them helpful.

PROS

- Easy to bend. I didn't need to use my Weatherhead bender, or my Lisle brake line pliers. I was able to bend everything by hand.

- Easy to make long runs without junctions. I was able to run one piece of tubing from MC all of the way to the rear flex hose, without the need for junctions. Even though the path was circuitous, and had several zig-zags where I had to run around obstacles, e-brake cables, and frame mounting attachments near the front and rear wheel wells, I was able to make a continuous run with one piece of tubing. To do this, I started at the most difficult spot midway in the run, and spun the coil of tubing until I had enough of it go go all the way to the back, and enough to go all the way to the front. then I uncoiled the front and rear portions of the line and fed them to their final destination. If I were using steel tubing, I would have had to use 3 separate pieces. The end result looked great, very professional looking results, with all the routing done without bending tools.

- Easy to flare. Those of you who have had problems with inexpensive flaring tools will probably have better luck with NiCopp than you've had with steel. Buying an expensive flaring tool like the Mastercool or the Eastwood probably won't be necessary. An inexpensive flaring tool will probably flare NiCopp without slipping because the metal is so soft.

CONS

- Easy to mar the finish, crease, or dent the line. I used a brand new set of Lisle brake pliers to make some very tight 90-degree bends, and somehow I managed to put dents and creases in the line. That never would have happened with steel lines. The NiCopp is soft enough that you need to be more careful with it.

- Steel frame clips might damage the copper lines. You need to use padded clips.

- Too easy to flare. The copper is so soft that it's easy to apply too much pressure when flaring, and destroy the metal -- especially if you have a hydraulic flaring tool. You have to develop a very gentle technique compared to flaring steel lines.

- Easy to crush flares with tube nuts. This is the only thing I'm worried about. With steel, you have distinct tactile feedback when your tube nut tightens on the flare to provide a seal. With NiCopp the alloy is so soft that the tactile feedback as you tighten the nut is indistinct. Sealling requires less torque, and if you apply too much torque the metal will just continue to deform as you destroy the flare. You have to be careful.

That last "con" is the only thing I'm worried about. Although I have done all the plumbing for the new lines, I haven't filled the system yet, and I can't say anything about how well the flares sealed when I tightened the tube nuts. I also can't comment about how durable the flares will be if the lines ever need to be removed and reconnected. With steel, removing and replacing a caliper is no big deal. I'm not sure whether a NiCopp flare will hold up to being reused. There sure isn't as much tactile feedback when the tube nut engages the flare, like you'd have with a steel line.

rustyroger

Set your mind at rest about sealing. If the nuts were tightened just enough to crush the pipe a tiny bit then it will have formed a perfect seal.
I guess I must have mastered the technique for tightening cupro/nickel fittings, but then i have fitted thousands over the years.

Roger.