62radarlove

Being a newly converted olds guy now i'm full of questions on what & how to's. Now that i've pretty much decided that i'm going to continue to work on my 69 442 i've did the unvinyling of the top & OMG.....as i suspected the top to be rusted & it is but with a couple of ugly holes. Now what to do....i spoke with one body guy & he mentioned that i could just laminate it with fiberglass, cause patching it would warp the metal due to heating up the thin metal from welding. Another mentioned of just reskinning it. As to reskinning i have aquired a well preserved top cut off a donor car which still has all the framework with it, even the from posts. So now i'm looking to pros & cons of how to proceed......I'm not a welder but i'm pretty good & comfortable with getting the skin ready.But where would i tie into the skinning seam? Along the gutter line? Is the meta strong enough there for the weld? Or do i just patch it & smooth it out & re-top it. Iam putting the vinyl back on so let me know your opinions good or bad & many thanks, i know i question everything i want to do to my "LIZZY" but as always objective views always helps for a definitive outcome.....at least for me. Thanks & REALLY enjoy this site.

ent72olds

Posting pics of the damage could help give a more logical opinion on how to fix it. But, if it is as bad as it sounds, and your current structure is in good shape, I would re-skin it. You would want to clean the lead out of the seams on the sail panel(upper qtr) remove front and rear glass. If it is a post car, remove qtr glass also. There are several ways to clean the paint of the pinch welds (area at top of window....where the glass sits against or top of channel). The safest is probably using a wire wheel and electric drill. You want to remove the paint in order to expose the factory spot welds. Inside the drip rails, it will have either lead covering the seam, or if repaired later I've seen seam sealer. You will have to remove it to expose welds here also. You can use a propane torch or oxyacetalene(sp) very carefully, making sure you have a fire extinguisher close. Don't do this in your garage. As a matter of fact, first do this to the used roof. Once all is exposed, drill out each factory weld, releasing the skin. Repeat as neccesary on your car. By the way, you can do the seams on the sail panels and upper A posts with the torch to remove the lead also. Be very careful not to start a fire or harm yourself. If you didnt pay too much for the used roof, practice on that. If you mess up, you still have your car, and I believe someone is making a new skin for our cars now. Someone else will know this for sure and chime in. Allan R is pretty good at researching stuff. By using the new skin, it would save you a bunch of labor trying to removve two skins....this way, only one. Also, check out Dent's 72 project. He has some good pics of the leaded areas on your car!

lshlsh2

I think some pics might help give us a better idea of what is going on. My personal preference is to avoid fiberglass. It always seems to rust out around the glass. From what I have seen to weld thin metal you end up doing alot of tack welds, lots of waiting to cool off then lots of grinding to make smooth.
Larry

Allan R

Where are the holes in the roof? Are they on just the top or on the sail panel too? One of the guys on this forum works in a body shop and could probably answer your questions quite easily. see: coppercutlass

FWIW I'd still put the vinyl roof back on. I like the look, and if it's sealed properly there shouldn't be any further issues with rusting.

joe_padavano

Run, don't walk, away from any shop that suggests using fiberglass. Patching the sheet metal requires skill to avoid warping. Many quality shops do this day in and day out, but your corner crash-repair shop will not. Reskinning will give the best quality fix, as the welds are hidden at the factory locations. A repro roof skin for the 68-72 A-body cars is available, so you don't need to find used sheetmetal.

62radarlove

posted up pics all, thanks. In the meantime i'm running.......when do i stop....anyways thanks. So if the factory welds are hidden where can i find a document for detachment & re-weld? Now with this good info i'm deciding to re-skin. The replacement top is from a coupe & i got a post car so that's why i'm re-skinning & not replacing the top as you see it. I was thinking of cutting & re-welding where the transition is on the gutter line? Not crazy bout involving the gutters themselves, but hey if thats the best solution, i'm down with it, after all everything i do does involve custom work.....in my everyday job that is so this is right up my alley....so to say. Thanks all. Good food for thought.

ent72olds

Looks like the donor skin was cut with a torch along the sail panels. I would use it to practice on. You would want to drill out the spot welds....I wouldn't weld on top of the rain gutters. Clean out the area on the donor and see where the spot welds are. Drill them out. You can buy a spot weld cutter kit to do it or just use some good quality drill bits. Key is to drill out the same size as the spots themselves, trying not to go through anything more than the skin. Even if you do, new skin will cover it. Thats if you go with a "new" skin, which I would do, seeing the seams on the sail panels. If not, you can weld a flange piece to go behind the seam between the qtr and roof skin. As far as welding, pick up a "how to book" and get a mig, bottle of argon and O2 mix, and practice on scrap. Welding spot welds is simple compared to stitch or butt welding or lap welding. Pick up the book!

Allan R

The skin you're showing looks awfully like it's from a 2 door, not a sedan. It even has the lip drop for the rear window, which you wouldn't find on a sedan. Who told you it was from a sedan? The roofline slope on a sedan is usually more flat instead of curved. You should be able to use that entire piece on your car even if you have a post. All the 2 dr roofs are the same AFAIK. FYI here's a pic of a 68 sedan so you can make comparisons

62radarlove

My bad its a coupe top not sedan, thanks. I dont know if this is correct but it seems that my post car has different door jamb top where the weatherstripping seals. The replacement that i got has angled door jamb at the top & what is on my car is more vertical. Thats why i was thinking skin. Or maybe perhaps its a 2 peice? Not sure & of course i don't know if coupe roofs are different than post roofs in that respect, or maybe i got duked on the roof buy. Heres a couple comparable pics.

coppercutlass

I would seperate the whole skin just the skin from the current structure on the xtra one. Cut the spot welds out along the sail panel. Then cut length wise inside the roof rail between where you mount the chrome moulding and where the roof starts to buldge up . removing the moulding mount lip but leaving the floor behind it. This gives you a place to weld onto once you go to weld it., you weld it on to the cars roof rail you will have to remove any caulking there and trim the metal to get the right height. At the front you want to cut about an inch under the corner that goes down. just cut the corners of the pillars leaving a small flap at the front to weld onto the front post. This is so you can use the extra roof as a skin no structure no nothing you mount the skin over the original structure on yours. With this way too you will find out if it will fit length wise on yours . Im going to admit it's very difficult to try to explain with out using my hands lol i hope i was helpful in a way .

oldsguybry

God , I hope mine dont look that bad when I rip the vinyl off

62radarlove

ok copper i got most of what your saying...i think so where the welds are to the existing skin what happens there? Bondo to blend or perhaps i'm not getting it. What about the sails? Got a video?heck nowadays you can just send me a vid or perhaps video phone? Anyways i leave the old skin then cover with replacement do i spot weld the middle areas? Thanks i'm starting to see a bit clearer......a bit.

coppercutlass

around the window area drill out the spot welds. At the sail panels drill out the spot welds. You will need to cut some some metal and butt weld small sections like between the sail panels and rear window. Im gonna try to get a video for ya . I dont usually go to work on my stuff till saturday. Yes you re weld the original spot welds then you will have to do a sries of spot welds to weld the skin along the roof rail. Filler will be needed fiberglass filler or all metal first it does not shrink as much as regular plastic filler then you follow with plastic or polyester filler to finish.

62radarlove

How do i expose the spot welds on the sail panels? take it down to metal & it will be obivous?Also along lengthwise will they also be obivous after i remove the caulking?Any help is appreciate it & this wont be done in a few days so a trickle of info is all good as well, right now its absortion of info is where i'm at. Thanks!

ent72olds

Didn't I explain this? Re-read my 2 posts...

62radarlove

yep....yeah you did, ent, sometimes i need it explained like i'm a 4yr old, cause i get caught up in the moment, but you covered that well....Noted! Thanks.

62radarlove

Is there another way to remove the lead? & if heating up the lead will the roof metal warp? Thanks.

ent72olds

Lead doesn't need a lot of heat. A propane torch keep moving back and forth over the lead and wire brush at the same time. The lead will melt out pretty quickly, kind of like candle wax....works nice! Did you look at Dent72's project so you can see what the area looks like?

62radarlove

Got it i saw the thread. When you said not to do this in the garage, was it for fumes, smell or flammability reasons. I only ask this cause we dont see the sun for months here so i was thinking i could do this at the garage opening. Anyways i will be trying the lead removal this weekend, thanks.

coppercutlass

You can also just use a grinder with a 36 grit disc to clean the thick stuff then hit it with a strip wheel to clean the small stuff. If you don't want to use heat.

ent72olds

[QUOTE=62radarlove;363470]... When you said not to do this in the garage, was it for fumes, smell or flammability reasons...QUOTE]

I just didn't want you to burn the garage down. If you have someone there with you as a second set of eyes to make sure nothing goes up(headliner...hopefully you take interior out first), have water or extinguisher ready just incase....you'll see it's faily simple to do...melting the lead out...not burning your garage down....

62radarlove

OK i got the skin off of the donor roof & its seems short by about 2" or so when i lay it on the existing roof. Now i don't have the glass out yet so its really not seated anywhere, is this normal? I hope to get the glass out next week to clean up those areas. I did what copper recommended in cutting off the gutters & along where the glass goes, so now just wondering if i just lay on the new roof will it fit? I really have no other choice unless i cut the perimeter & but weld it....but will that warp the metal?.....Anyways kinda excited to get the new solid donor roof on so my lizzy doesn't have an eyesore. Thanks all.

coppercutlass

Measure with a measuring tape length wise to see the top length original vs the donor. The arch at the sail panel maybe whats throwing off the "true fit" . Measure twice cut once. Make sure the roof you got is the same roofline style. If it is short you may have to get creative to make it work if you chose to do so.

62radarlove

ok just measure & it is about a 1/2" longer, but i think that will settle in once its stretched out on top of the old one. I actually just cut all of the welds off on the window areas, i figured i can re-weld those the blend. Thanks again for all your help.