Bodyworking my 70 W30
March 11th, 2013, 10:47 AM
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Bodyworking my 70 W30
Body work CAN be done at home with basic body work tools and lots of patience!
Three months ago, I had no "real" bodywork experience. I started with a few hammers, dollies, oxy/acetylene torch, snips, files, a rusty old fender, and the internet! After about 100 hours of cutting, shaping, welding and grinding the old fender, I decided to tackle my restoration fenders. I won't bore anyone with pictures of the scrap pieces I made, just jump ahead to the good stuff.
I'm not a pro, but this is my method.
Starting with a piece of sheetmetal from a "donor" hood, I made new patch panels. First, make a hammer form out of 3/4" MDF to create the swages. I used a router to make the template in the MDF. Mark out the swages on the patch. Clamp your steel to the hammerform to keep it from moving. Using a combination of hammers and an old chisel that I rounded off the ends, I slowly worked the swages into the piece. It helps to drill the holes first to make it easier to stretch the metal.
Next step, form the crease. To do this, I clamped it to the work bench, sandwiched between the bench and a piece of angle iron. Then I bent to the approximate angle.
To get the contour of the panel, I first made a template and a buck to check my work. Slowly create the contour by rolling the patch over various tubes, pipes, and even an oxy bottle. Work slowly until the bends match your pattern. It is easy to bend and get a crease if you're not careful.
Next step is to make a pattern of the outline shape for the patch, so you can form the flange for wheel or door openings. I used paper to trace from the fender and then made a hard template from a cereal box. Transfer to the patch. To "tip" the flange, I start with the rounded chisel and lightly tap the line where I want the bend to be. This gets a crease started to bend on. Then with wide plyers, I tip the flange up working to 90 degrees in multiple steps. Don't try to bend it to 90 on the first pass.
Once the flange is tipped, you can clean up the crease with hammer and dolly. After tipping the flange, the contour will change. You can then shrink and stretch the flange to pull the contour back to the correct shape.
Patch is finished.
(to be continued)
Three months ago, I had no "real" bodywork experience. I started with a few hammers, dollies, oxy/acetylene torch, snips, files, a rusty old fender, and the internet! After about 100 hours of cutting, shaping, welding and grinding the old fender, I decided to tackle my restoration fenders. I won't bore anyone with pictures of the scrap pieces I made, just jump ahead to the good stuff.
I'm not a pro, but this is my method.
Starting with a piece of sheetmetal from a "donor" hood, I made new patch panels. First, make a hammer form out of 3/4" MDF to create the swages. I used a router to make the template in the MDF. Mark out the swages on the patch. Clamp your steel to the hammerform to keep it from moving. Using a combination of hammers and an old chisel that I rounded off the ends, I slowly worked the swages into the piece. It helps to drill the holes first to make it easier to stretch the metal.
Next step, form the crease. To do this, I clamped it to the work bench, sandwiched between the bench and a piece of angle iron. Then I bent to the approximate angle.
To get the contour of the panel, I first made a template and a buck to check my work. Slowly create the contour by rolling the patch over various tubes, pipes, and even an oxy bottle. Work slowly until the bends match your pattern. It is easy to bend and get a crease if you're not careful.
Next step is to make a pattern of the outline shape for the patch, so you can form the flange for wheel or door openings. I used paper to trace from the fender and then made a hard template from a cereal box. Transfer to the patch. To "tip" the flange, I start with the rounded chisel and lightly tap the line where I want the bend to be. This gets a crease started to bend on. Then with wide plyers, I tip the flange up working to 90 degrees in multiple steps. Don't try to bend it to 90 on the first pass.
Once the flange is tipped, you can clean up the crease with hammer and dolly. After tipping the flange, the contour will change. You can then shrink and stretch the flange to pull the contour back to the correct shape.
Patch is finished.
(to be continued)
Last edited by MX442; March 11th, 2013 at 10:50 AM.
March 11th, 2013, 11:26 AM
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Here's what I'm starting with:
I don't have a fancy spot cutter in the budget. So using a drill bit, I reground the end of the bit to a shallower angle. Carefully drill out the spot welds to separate the inner brace from the fender.
(to be continued)
I don't have a fancy spot cutter in the budget. So using a drill bit, I reground the end of the bit to a shallower angle. Carefully drill out the spot welds to separate the inner brace from the fender.
(to be continued)
March 11th, 2013, 02:18 PM
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Before I cut out the bad stuff out, I weld a tab on the edges where I will be making my weld seam. This keeps the weld from blowing out at the edge. Make the flanged edge wider than you need. After it is welded in, you can trim to exact size.
Next, I cut the patch to the size I want. I cut straight lines with an electric shear and snips, then finish with a flat file. Don't make square 90 degree corners, make radius corners instead. If you make your cuts perfect, it will be a lot easier to weld in later.
Once the patch is trued up, then I lay it onto the fender and scribe one edge. Trim the fender away only on one end of where the patch is going to go. Then scribe the other end of the weld seam. Once both ends of the weld line are scribed and cut, the patch will overlay the fender. Then scribe the rest of the cut. (hope that makes sense). Cut the fender so the patch fits perfect. NO GAPS.
I start to tack in the center of the weld line. I found out that if I start on one end and go to the other, the end of the weld will come out short because of shrinking. Make a couple tacks, and set the torch down! You want it to cool to shrink and pull your seam together tight.
Then I lay tacks in both directions from the center of the weld, outwards to the edge. Go slow, and hammer dolly as needed to keep edges aligned. As the tacks cool, the seam will be pulled shut.
(to be continued)
Next, I cut the patch to the size I want. I cut straight lines with an electric shear and snips, then finish with a flat file. Don't make square 90 degree corners, make radius corners instead. If you make your cuts perfect, it will be a lot easier to weld in later.
Once the patch is trued up, then I lay it onto the fender and scribe one edge. Trim the fender away only on one end of where the patch is going to go. Then scribe the other end of the weld seam. Once both ends of the weld line are scribed and cut, the patch will overlay the fender. Then scribe the rest of the cut. (hope that makes sense). Cut the fender so the patch fits perfect. NO GAPS.
I start to tack in the center of the weld line. I found out that if I start on one end and go to the other, the end of the weld will come out short because of shrinking. Make a couple tacks, and set the torch down! You want it to cool to shrink and pull your seam together tight.
Then I lay tacks in both directions from the center of the weld, outwards to the edge. Go slow, and hammer dolly as needed to keep edges aligned. As the tacks cool, the seam will be pulled shut.
(to be continued)
March 11th, 2013, 02:33 PM
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Once it is all tacked in, hammer and dolly. This does several things. It stretches the tack welds to remove distortion, and if you have any gaps, you can stretch the material back to get zero gaps. All tacked in.
Now weld between the tacks. Overlap 1/2 of the tack. Move around so you don't overheat the panel. If it oil-cans, you'll blow holes.
I'll come back and fill the holes later with the MIG welder.
Both fenders welded. Next, hammer and dolly the welds to planish them flat. Only hammer where you put the heat. Don't over hammer, or you will over stretch the weld. Next, off to my dad's to use his MIG welder to fill all the trim holes (and the couple I put in while welding).
Now weld between the tacks. Overlap 1/2 of the tack. Move around so you don't overheat the panel. If it oil-cans, you'll blow holes.
I'll come back and fill the holes later with the MIG welder.
Both fenders welded. Next, hammer and dolly the welds to planish them flat. Only hammer where you put the heat. Don't over hammer, or you will over stretch the weld. Next, off to my dad's to use his MIG welder to fill all the trim holes (and the couple I put in while welding).
Last edited by MX442; March 12th, 2013 at 07:50 AM.
March 11th, 2013, 09:03 PM
#8
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Excellent work. Yours looks better than my first attempt at metal forming on a similar project.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post193182
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post193182
March 12th, 2013, 07:55 AM
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Thanks for the kind words.
Richard, I remember your thread from a few years ago. That is what made me think that I CAN do this! Although I didn't use steel as a hammerform, the MDF holds up just fine to make a few swages.
I fixed the dead picture link above. ^
Over the weekend, I did the MIG welding. I filled the trim holes on the Cutlass fender, and fixed the gas weld blowout holes. I still need to do a final planish before stripping for primer. I am working on my plan of attack for primer and paint the insides. It will be a couple weeks before I can get back to work on the fenders.
Richard, I remember your thread from a few years ago. That is what made me think that I CAN do this! Although I didn't use steel as a hammerform, the MDF holds up just fine to make a few swages.
I fixed the dead picture link above. ^
Over the weekend, I did the MIG welding. I filled the trim holes on the Cutlass fender, and fixed the gas weld blowout holes. I still need to do a final planish before stripping for primer. I am working on my plan of attack for primer and paint the insides. It will be a couple weeks before I can get back to work on the fenders.
March 12th, 2013, 10:00 AM
#10
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Thanks for the kind words.
Richard, I remember your thread from a few years ago. That is what made me think that I CAN do this! Although I didn't use steel as a hammerform, the MDF holds up just fine to make a few swages.
I fixed the dead picture link above. ^
Over the weekend, I did the MIG welding. I filled the trim holes on the Cutlass fender, and fixed the gas weld blowout holes. I still need to do a final planish before stripping for primer. I am working on my plan of attack for primer and paint the insides. It will be a couple weeks before I can get back to work on the fenders.
Richard, I remember your thread from a few years ago. That is what made me think that I CAN do this! Although I didn't use steel as a hammerform, the MDF holds up just fine to make a few swages.
I fixed the dead picture link above. ^
Over the weekend, I did the MIG welding. I filled the trim holes on the Cutlass fender, and fixed the gas weld blowout holes. I still need to do a final planish before stripping for primer. I am working on my plan of attack for primer and paint the insides. It will be a couple weeks before I can get back to work on the fenders.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...5&postcount=21
March 12th, 2013, 04:59 PM
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Really nice and time intensive work! I also did all own body work with new aftermarket
quarters. I did get lucky though and the fitment was actually good to start after cutting the old ones off. Looking foreward to seeing more progress!
quarters. I did get lucky though and the fitment was actually good to start after cutting the old ones off. Looking foreward to seeing more progress!
March 13th, 2013, 08:06 AM
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Richard, I have David's dvd. Excellent for beginners. I lurked around metal meet fro the last year trying to absorb anything I can.
Hey Ziff, here's what I have in the rear quarter. The trunk drop is the worst part. Shouldn't need new quarters. This is the only rust on the whole car.
It will be a couple weeks before I can get back to work. I'm trying to figure out a plan to get them in primer and cover the bare metal.
Hey Ziff, here's what I have in the rear quarter. The trunk drop is the worst part. Shouldn't need new quarters. This is the only rust on the whole car.
It will be a couple weeks before I can get back to work. I'm trying to figure out a plan to get them in primer and cover the bare metal.
March 13th, 2013, 12:11 PM
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You can teach yourself to weld. It takes quite a bit of trial and error, and a LOT of grinding in the beginning (ask me how I know) but over time, you can get quite good at it. Like any skill, practice makes perfect (or passable in my case). As mentioned earlier, don't try to get by with an el cheapo welder. They do work, but they don't usually have but about 4 power settings. Much better to have the variable power level type (Hobart, Miller), and no matter what else you do, make sure you buy one that uses GAS. (learned that one the hard way too..........
)
)
it takes time to learn how metal reacts when heat or cold applied and you have it mastered!keep up the good work!
March 24th, 2013, 06:43 PM
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My tought also. back side didn't look bad either. Boy I feel inferior now after cleaning these front and back and welding in a small patch compared to this method
March 25th, 2013, 07:21 AM
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You could see daylight through both fender bottoms. It had to be cut out. I probably didn't have to remove the fender brace, but I wanted to get a good coat of epoxy in there. I will spray them with epoxy before tack welding back together.
April 4th, 2013, 09:17 AM
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Well, I may not have the heat thing mastered. I did the gold fender first, and if you notice in the picture, it oil-canned on me. I spent a lot of time hammering out and the area I was working kept sinking deeper. I will say this is due to over stretching when hammering on dolly planishing.
Then to the torch. Shrink. You can see where I did a lot of random shrinking. I never really know where to shrink or strecth, just experiment a little bit.
I put it back on the car without the brace to make sure that everything lines up to to door. It was off by quite a bit, so back to hammering again.
I discovered that stretching the flange of the inward contour and working the corner of the flange, pulled it back inward to where it needs to be. Almost there, just a little bit more where the weld seam is of the patch.
By working the flange inward, it helped to pull out the crater on the weld seam. Now I have to figure out how to remove this valley. It is about 1/8" deep. That is too much bondo for me.
Once I get this side straight enough, I'll move over to the other side. The other side didn't distort from welding, so hopefully it will be a lot easier.
Then to the torch. Shrink. You can see where I did a lot of random shrinking. I never really know where to shrink or strecth, just experiment a little bit.
I put it back on the car without the brace to make sure that everything lines up to to door. It was off by quite a bit, so back to hammering again.
I discovered that stretching the flange of the inward contour and working the corner of the flange, pulled it back inward to where it needs to be. Almost there, just a little bit more where the weld seam is of the patch.
By working the flange inward, it helped to pull out the crater on the weld seam. Now I have to figure out how to remove this valley. It is about 1/8" deep. That is too much bondo for me.
Once I get this side straight enough, I'll move over to the other side. The other side didn't distort from welding, so hopefully it will be a lot easier.
April 5th, 2013, 08:53 AM
#21
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Hammer "off dolly" starting at the edges and move inward. Many light hits works way better than one hard hit. If you have a stud gun, put a line of studs along that line. Hammer lightly while pulling on the studs to relax the metal where you want it.
The stud gun works great because you can leave the fender on the car and check your progress faster. Hammer and dolly means you'll have that fender off 100 times.
Looking good, you're almost there.
The stud gun works great because you can leave the fender on the car and check your progress faster. Hammer and dolly means you'll have that fender off 100 times.
Looking good, you're almost there.
April 5th, 2013, 09:11 AM
#22
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I didn't think of that. It is hard to hammer/dolly off of the car, because I can't push and keep the fender rigid. Once upon a time, I MIG'd some nails to a quarter panel and with some vice grips and a hammer, slowly massaged it out.
April 10th, 2013, 11:58 AM
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Wow that worked out pretty well. My fenders needed to be patched and I was originally looking to just buy patch panels, but it looks like it wouldn't be so bad to fabricate them (and I love fabrication.)
...of course my fenders are in a bit sadder shape. They've rusted through so badly they've actually become 2-piece fenders.
And +1 to whoever said stay far away from cheap, gasless welders. It was an OK starter welder and OK for small repairs, but heck no to body work. Get a good MIG and save yourself the frustration.
...of course my fenders are in a bit sadder shape. They've rusted through so badly they've actually become 2-piece fenders.
And +1 to whoever said stay far away from cheap, gasless welders. It was an OK starter welder and OK for small repairs, but heck no to body work. Get a good MIG and save yourself the frustration.
November 9th, 2013, 08:56 AM
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I haven't been around here much lately. Too many posts every day to keep up on. Here's what I got done over the last 6 months.
The trunk filler (from trunk floor to lower quarter has very heavy scale internal rust. It has one small spot rusted through. However it is SO solid that I can not poke an awl through it. I will cut it out anyway. Here is a picture of the drop panel from the inside. The rust through is next to that rubber plug laying in there.
The exterior QP has a rust through and some small pin holes.
I spent 8 hours yesterday wielding a BFH making this replacement piece to replace the lower 3" of the QP. I'm not happy yet with the shape and contour. I will also make a new trunk filler piece because I don't want chinese metal on my car. And because I'm dumb enough to try to hammer out a piece that complicated. I haven't cut anything out yet, just trying to make the replacement pieces first.
No taiwan metal here! A toronado was gracious enough to be an organ donor for sheet-metal. All OLDSMOBILE steel here!
The trunk filler (from trunk floor to lower quarter has very heavy scale internal rust. It has one small spot rusted through. However it is SO solid that I can not poke an awl through it. I will cut it out anyway. Here is a picture of the drop panel from the inside. The rust through is next to that rubber plug laying in there.
The exterior QP has a rust through and some small pin holes.
I spent 8 hours yesterday wielding a BFH making this replacement piece to replace the lower 3" of the QP. I'm not happy yet with the shape and contour. I will also make a new trunk filler piece because I don't want chinese metal on my car. And because I'm dumb enough to try to hammer out a piece that complicated. I haven't cut anything out yet, just trying to make the replacement pieces first.
No taiwan metal here! A toronado was gracious enough to be an organ donor for sheet-metal. All OLDSMOBILE steel here!
November 9th, 2013, 08:58 AM
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Did some heat and beat to shrink. Now I'm happy with the shape and contour. Just mud over the seam and screws, good to go? Just kidding.
Then I spent the afternoon working out that wrinkled mess. Heat, hammer, push, pull... My back hurts and I had to quit. Almost there! I'm glad I didn't cut it out.
Then I spent the afternoon working out that wrinkled mess. Heat, hammer, push, pull... My back hurts and I had to quit. Almost there! I'm glad I didn't cut it out.
November 9th, 2013, 08:59 AM
#26
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Eight days of shaping metal to make patch panels. I don't have many pics of the process and how I did it, but mostly tape patterns, bend, and hammer. I started lurking on Metal Meet a few years ago and absorb anything I could. My tools consist of a few body hammers and dollies, ball peen hammer, railroad track anvil, snips, and O/A torch. This is my first attempt at real body work. I'm not an expert, I just make it up as I go and try to use common sense. Last December I learned to O/A weld, and using an old fender, I started cutting, pounding and welding on it. After about 100 hours of learning on that fender, I moved on to my restoration fenders. So here's where I'm at as of today.
I started by cutting out only some of the rot. I needed enough area left for reference and forming the patch panels. I started with the fender lip. Using a tape pattern, trace out the shape, and tip the corner with some pliers.
Slapper and hammer on the anvil to shrink, stretch and shape.
Tweaked it until it was a perfect fit. I'm not sure if I want to gas weld or MIG this in. I make my patches with 0 clearance so I can gas weld. I learned to MIG yesterday for the purpose of plug welding. I tried some practice butt welding with the MIG and was having trouble..
Moving on, I cut out the rot on the inner wheel tub, and torched it in.
Next was the outer tub patch. I can't believe that I was able to hammer this out of one piece of steel. Wrapped it in tape, marked some lines, tipped the flanges, and hammer stretched into a thick dense piece of foam on the floor. (kind of like using a sand bag for stretching).
to be continued.
I started by cutting out only some of the rot. I needed enough area left for reference and forming the patch panels. I started with the fender lip. Using a tape pattern, trace out the shape, and tip the corner with some pliers.
Slapper and hammer on the anvil to shrink, stretch and shape.
Tweaked it until it was a perfect fit. I'm not sure if I want to gas weld or MIG this in. I make my patches with 0 clearance so I can gas weld. I learned to MIG yesterday for the purpose of plug welding. I tried some practice butt welding with the MIG and was having trouble..
Moving on, I cut out the rot on the inner wheel tub, and torched it in.
Next was the outer tub patch. I can't believe that I was able to hammer this out of one piece of steel. Wrapped it in tape, marked some lines, tipped the flanges, and hammer stretched into a thick dense piece of foam on the floor. (kind of like using a sand bag for stretching).
to be continued.
November 9th, 2013, 09:01 AM
#27
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Next, I cut out the trunk filler drop. I made this in two pieces and welded together. I borrowed a bead roller to make the contours. That made things much easier! What a handy tool!
Fitting it into place
Now that all my patches were pounded out, I sprayed two coats of SPI epoxy on the pieces that will never be seen again. Next, I final fit the outer wheel tub patch and gas welded it in, then MIG plug welded the flange. What a pain, this was in a tight spot. In the corners where I couldn't get to with the torch, I made some MIG wire sculptures.
After using a die grinder with carbide bit and cartridge roll, this is what it looks like. After that, I brushed on some left over epoxy to cover the bare metal before it gets buried to never be seen again.
Fitting it into place
Now that all my patches were pounded out, I sprayed two coats of SPI epoxy on the pieces that will never be seen again. Next, I final fit the outer wheel tub patch and gas welded it in, then MIG plug welded the flange. What a pain, this was in a tight spot. In the corners where I couldn't get to with the torch, I made some MIG wire sculptures.
After using a die grinder with carbide bit and cartridge roll, this is what it looks like. After that, I brushed on some left over epoxy to cover the bare metal before it gets buried to never be seen again.
November 9th, 2013, 09:03 AM
#28
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That ugly wrinkled corner turned out pretty nice. I had no idea that metal like that could be worked out. I kept at it, and it is close enough for a little skim of filler. I'm glad I didn't cut it out!
November 9th, 2013, 09:07 AM
#29
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Got the trunk drop welded in:
Then when I welded in the new quarter patch, I ran into problems. This is where it all "hit the fan". Guess I got too cocky thinking I knew what I was doing. I WILL be cutting this and starting over!
I thought I'd weld in the ends first, and chase the buckle of the old metal to the center to be able to work it out... Big mistake. I have a big "buckle" in the center that will not hammer out. I think I'm going to have to make relief cuts, or ... cut it off and start over.
I decided to take a break from this side and work on the other side. After removing several pounds of silly putty:
My buckled repaired side is 10x better than the mess that was left behind here!
Then when I welded in the new quarter patch, I ran into problems. This is where it all "hit the fan". Guess I got too cocky thinking I knew what I was doing. I WILL be cutting this and starting over!
I thought I'd weld in the ends first, and chase the buckle of the old metal to the center to be able to work it out... Big mistake. I have a big "buckle" in the center that will not hammer out. I think I'm going to have to make relief cuts, or ... cut it off and start over.
I decided to take a break from this side and work on the other side. After removing several pounds of silly putty:
My buckled repaired side is 10x better than the mess that was left behind here!
November 9th, 2013, 09:17 AM
#30
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The right rear quarter panel was mangled quite a bit. The lighting doesn't pick up the damage very well. The style line was pushed in about 3/4" and there was 1/2" of bondo around the side light. The wheel lip was also pushed in about 1/4".
First order of business was pull the fender lip out and back to shape. Next step was re-defining the style line. Using a football dolly to help push out while I slap.
After the style line was back in place, I planished out from the style line and up. Got it into shape, and shrunk out the oil cans.
First order of business was pull the fender lip out and back to shape. Next step was re-defining the style line. Using a football dolly to help push out while I slap.
After the style line was back in place, I planished out from the style line and up. Got it into shape, and shrunk out the oil cans.
November 9th, 2013, 09:24 AM
#31
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Next, I had to fabricate and weld a patch panel from the side light and back. I just realized that I don't have any further pictures. The right QP is now finished and straight. It probably took me about 150 hours. Next update, re-doing the left quarter panel.
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