oldoldss

The assembly manual shows different assembly methods/options for Lansing versus GMAD plants -- mostly because 442 were only built in Lansing, and some were 442-specific. It makes me wonder what else might vary between plants.

My 1971 Cutlass was assembled in Arlington, Texas on May 6, 1971.

I was told that the Arlington plant used red primer -- and that it was the only plant to do so; all others used gray primer.
1.) Is that true? (Why?)
2.) What else might Arlington have been known to do different?
3.) What else did they build in Arlington in 1971 (were Pontiacs and Buicks, built alongside the Olds')?

My mostly original paint car lost points in judging for "overspray". I wonder if someone saw the red primer underneath and thought that was from my red paint, expecting to see gray?

TheRuss

I guess my 72 Cutlass S and your 71 are relatives.

I've got no idea about the factories...but I'd definitely be interested too if anyone does have answers to your questions.

-Russ

Jamesbo

I have no idea, but I've been told the color of the Jacks vary being either black or grey. T/F ????

My442

GMAD plants were BOP )Buick/Olds/Pontiac).

I worked at the Framingham BOP plant from 1972 to 1974.

They used a red primer that the body was dipped in, and then painted.

All the painting was done by people back then.

58 cars per hour, slapped together and shipped.

Quality was job #2, shipping the cars out was job #1.....

joe_padavano

That's not correct. W-cars were only built in Lansing. 442s were built at any of the Cutlass assembly plants for a given year. My very first 442 (a 1968) was built in Ontario, Canada. My current 66 convertible was built in Fremont, CA. My H/O and W-cars were built in Lansing.

wmachine

Correctomundo. For '71:
M Lansing
G Framingham
R Arlington
Z Fremont

oldoldss

True on color variations on the jack handles. At the 2003 Olds Nationals, I was "informed" about the "wrong color" of my (gray) jack handle. I did repaint it when I redid the car, but I had matched the original color.

For the 2007 Nationals, I was ready: I had checked out the color of the jack handles on all the surrounding cars and found many gray ones. So they pointed out the "excessive" spatter paint instead...again, exactly matched to original. I guess the guy that originally did mine was heavy-handed.

I worked on an (non-automotive) assembly line many years ago. Looking back, I would hate to have bought one of the products that I assembled -- the job was only to get it on down the line. It didn't have to look good, just work. I grew up around a dealership and saw many cars that were the same way.

Bluevista

I've seen jack handles gray, black, natural and blue like the jack with my poncho, just carry all four to be safe. It depended on what was on-hand that day, nothing's set in stone but some show judges like to think so.
I've seen original car underbodies in red primer, dark gray primer and painted black, most of the Lansing cars I've seen personally seem to be black with overspray from the body color, but those are the ones I've seen.
I read on another site that Fisher painted the body and they only painted the fenders, hoods and small body color parts at the Lansing plant. The reason they're black and/or tend to be finished more completely?? Or did Fisher do the body at all of them?
In my poncho assembly guide the floorpans are specified to be the same percentage gloss black from the top of the firewall all the way back, but if you could get away with only doing the firewall....

88 coupe

The "Judging" standards came from a car that was assembled on a Tuesday. Your car was built on one of the other 4 days.

Norm

rocketraider

BINGO!

That's why I pushed for years for more formal judging training, SPECIFIC TO YEARS AND MODELS, WITH TESTS.

The National Judging Committee's response was that the judging was adequate as it was and they didn't want to "take the fun" out of the National meet.

They also told me if they were tasked with recruiting judges and tallying all the scoresheets for Nationals, they'd walk.

It hit me wrong and I asked them point blank, right in the middle of the OCA Board meeting, what the hell good were they and why did they even exist?

oldoldss

I may poke fun at some judges, but Oldsmobile Club of America does fine overall at the balance between authenticity and reality. There are a few big dollar restorations, but probably close to 3/4 of the cars are driven to the Nationals -- compared to hardly any at some other big brand car shows I've attended.

And remember: we're all volunteers who pay our own way to/at the show. "...I only play a judge..."

Don't let the term "Nationals" intimidate anyone. Before my first Nationals, I never considered my car of National quality; its a 38 year-old 140,000 mile car with an original body, top, and interior (repainted engine compartment and running gear). But they don't knock it too hard, seeming to weigh the originality against the condition. (If anything, I feel that car consistently getting a fist place "cheapens" the awards.)

jensenracing77

i only entered one car to be judged and lost because of a dirt smudge on my clutch pedal. i don't fully understand the placing. i got first but someone else got best of class. wouldn't that make me second.

wmachine

Lost? What, a couple points? Make you second? Yes, it looks like it would help you to understand the system.
Each car is judged by itself based on points. You start with 1000 and and get points deducted for shortcomings in each category. You final total results:
901-1000 First Place
801-900 Second Place
701-800 Third Place
*Every* car in a class can be a first place car.
In every class, there is a "Best In Class" which is simply the car with the highest point total.
*Any* of your deductions (including the dirt) would be the difference between you and the Best Of Class car.

wmachine

For sure! Judging is only a *minor* reason to bring a car to the Nats. And it doesn't have to be judged!!!
My biggest problem with the judging system is that "it" (thus OCA) is obsessed with condition while totally ignoring originality. (Except for the ugly stepchild Unrestored Class)
There is an "Authenticity" box in in each category, but it pales in contrast to "condition" of everything else. In addition, the box is for "Authentic", not "Original", so "Original" counts for *nothing*.
So a couple very bad things happen:
1. An Authentic car of lesser condition gets less points than a non-Authentic car excellent condition
2. A car that has had every part on it replaced (still Authentic) will get much higher points than an car with mostly original parts.
Thus a car with nice but flawed original paint gets repainted to get more points. Is that sad, or what? So OCA is contributing to a lot of Oldsmobiles losing their originality.
And have further aggravated that situation by recent changes in the Unrestored Class by tightening it up. Yes, I've heard (more than once now) someone say "I may as well get it painted now because it no longer qualifies for the Unrestored Class"
This is all *so* wrong!!!!! And it is already so *too late*. A car can only be original once. And with OCA's encouragement, there are a lot less of them left.

Jamesbo

Interesting,

Thanks wmachine.

I don't do shows. I just like driving mine and besides, I don't have a lawn chair.

anthonyP

Starting in 1971, the 8.5" 10-bolt rear axle - most probably due to the 1971 GM strike causing a shortage of Oldsmobile carriers - only the Framingham & Lansing built Cutlasses/442's had the Oldsmobile carrier rear axles installed, while those assembled at the Arlington & Fremont plants had the Buick carrier rear axles.