MDchanic

Here's the link:

http://supercarsunlimited.com/69-74-...met-d2227.aspx

oldsguybry

Excellent .

oldsguybry

Ok , so I've been driving this car for a couple of weeks now and there's a couple of issues popping up . I had to replace the fan clutch , and the new one don't seem right . After replacement I noticed the new one sounds weird , especially when the engine is cold . It reminds me of a big rig winding out in first gear . That's the best way I can describe it . It also sounds like the belts are spinning on the pulley when I hit the gas hard . I bought a new belt because the longer alternator belt was pretty old and worn . This didn't solve the issue . I thought you should be able to spin the fan clutch one rotation by hand , but that's not happening with the new one . It's pretty tight . None of this crap was happening until I replaced the fan clutch ( the weird noise / belt squeal )

I'm not completely sure with all the weird noises going on , but it sounds like the engine may be pinging . I've been only using 93 octane , nothing less . I'm wondering if I should put a octane booster in there when I get gas . It also sounds like the number 8 cylinder is clacking too . It's pretty much been doing this the whole time , but I notice it more now that I removed the entire a/c unit along with the outer ducting on the fire wall , leaving the main vent open from the engine compartment into the inside of the car , and the number 8 cylinder is right next to the hole . I need the room to do a few things on that side , and then I'm going to put it back . I also wonder if I should get a lead additive for the engine . I remember you guys talking about this earlier but can't remember details .

MDchanic

Sounds like you've got a fairly aggressive fan clutch considering your fan size, blade number, and pitch. Which clutch was it?

An overly aggressive clutch will turn the fan like a solid connection when the clutch is cold, and when the engine gets hot.
Good news: You'll never overheat.
Bad news: Sounds like Cessna, and may steal 1-2mpg on the highway.

If it really bothers you, you can get a clutch that's one notch less aggressive.



If the belts are the right sizes, then they need to be tighter.

Of course, the belts may be the wrong size, because instead of leaving the pulleys and brackets on the 455, you swapped the ones from the 350 onto it, changing the length needed, and potentially changing it to a length that was not the original 455 belt length, depending on exactly what you did.

Also, did you adjust the P/S belt correctly?



Not if it's brand new, and an aggressive clutch.



As I said earlier, 93 octane is not enough for this 10.5:1 engine.
You need at least 95 octane, probably 96 or 97.
You should add Octane Supreme to the 93 at every fill-up. You'll need to figure out exactly how much you need.

If you don't retard the timing, you'll wreck it.



Pull the valve cover and check the rockers and pivots.
If all is well there, check the pushrods and lifters.
If it's a lifter, in an engine that's been sitting, you may be able to get away with disassembling and cleaning the lifter.


- Eric

oldsguybry

It turned out to be the heavy duty one , and I have the standard one on order now .


Do you mean to tighten that belt second ?


Thanks for the info again , will do .



I talked to a guy at Rocket Racing in Big Bend , and he said if I have a big exhaust leak in between the manifold and the heads it will make a similar noise . I will try and get this fixed first and then see if that's the problem .

MDchanic

No.

See Joe's post here.




Actually, a small one will do this, but, Yes, it can be hard to distinguish a small exhaust leak from a rocker tap.

- Eric

BlackGold

It's perfectly normal for even a properly working fan clutch to engage when cold and first accelerating, causing the fan to roar. But the noise should subside within seconds as the viscous fluid inside the clutch gets redistributed as it spins. Then you shouldn't hear it again until it gets really hot (or cold when parked again).

oldsguybry

Thanks Eric & Brian for the info , it really helped . That link to Joe's thread was great , but a tougher thing to do when the fan shroud / pulley is on there , I got it done though . It turned out that it wasn't the belts , it was the fan clutch I bought making all this racket . I believe the one I had was the heavy duty standard rotation fan clutch . I took it back and ordered the non-heavy duty bi-rotation one . I sure hope this is right because I bought it . The reason I know the fan clutch I returned was what's making all the racket is simple . I took it off and tightened the nuts on the pulley without any fan clutch on there and it sounded fine . I then put the old one back on and it also sounds fine . The reason I am replacing it in the first place is because you can hear a slight squeek when you turn it by hand cold , and it's starting that infamous noise it did with the other one I swapped a few years ago . Other then that it's still good for the time being . Here's a picture of the tool I had to use because a screw driver wouldn't fit in the area that Joe said you had to put the screw driver in to adjust the PS correctly ....

joe_padavano

FYI, it's often easier to jack the car up and access that pry point for the PS pump from underneath. On my 307 cars, that's the only way to do it.

oldsguybry

Btw .... I bought the Turbo 108 octane booster and put it in the tank . They didn't carry octane supreme at Oreilly's . I put half of it in there before I added 8 gallons of 93 octane gas .

MDchanic

The fan clutch you should have gotten was the Hayden 2747 or equivalent. You probably had a 2797.

... And I think you can only get Octane Supreme mail-order.
If the Turbo 108 doesn't do the trick, the Octane Supreme definitely will, because it's tetraethyl lead.

Good luck!

- Eric

oldsguybry

The one I bought originally was the 2747 , and it sounded like **** . When I was looking at the description on the Oreilly computer screen today , it said that one is a heavy duty one . The one I ordered is a 5255 Standard duty like I said above , but that don't mean that it's right . as long as my car don't sound like a school bus and scream like the belts are slipping I don't care .

MDchanic

Hmmm. The 2747 is indeed the "Heavy Duty" model, but most people do not find it to be noisy, including me.
The 2797 is the one that screams.
I wonder whether you got a defective one.

Well, see how the 5255 is, and take it from there, I guess. If you have any temperature increases while sitting still or in traffic, though, that's the first thing I'd change back.

- Eric

oldsguybry

Yeah , I tried two different 2747 and got the same results . We'll see what the new one does . I have to agree that something seems weird about the whole thing .

MDchanic

Any way you could have a bent fan blade?

(You pretty much can't tell by looking at it).

- Eric

oldsguybry

I don't believe so , because it didn't make these noises once I removed the fan clutch and put the old one back on .

MDchanic

Fair enough. Makes sense.

I'm a bit baffled, then.

- Eric

oldsguybry

7028252 is the Rochester Carburetor number for replacement , I need to find one real soon .

Found one at Sparky's Carb Service . I noticed they had one for a 7028252 , and one for a 7028252 RM/RH . Mine DOES have a RM designation after the part number .

oldsguybry

I'm going to try one more time to get a couple of those manifold bolts off of the motor soon , I've been busy doing body work lately after a much needed break from it all because of my job and other things going on .

My question is .... I will have to take the heads off to get some of these bolts drilled out at a local speed / race shop in town . I know that you have to put everything back where it came from and you can't mix anything up , so as long as they're in the same holes they came out of I should be good , right ? This is new territory for me and after a short search I noticed a few different tools that are needed to do this job . I will do more research on this as the time gets closer , but I would appreciate any input I can get on this , danke .

MDchanic

Right.

Is this the early '70s 350 or the '67 (?) Toro motor?
If this is the Toro motor, you might gain some room to use a lower octane fuel (or to get away with 93 octane without an octane booster), at the cost of some power and efficiency, when you reassemble with FelPro head gaskets, but
if it's the 8.5:1 350, you cannot really afford to lose any compression, so you may wish to have the machine shop deck the heads to make up for the extra height of the FelPro gaskets, and keep both your compression and your valve lash the same (it's about 0.030", but you could always give them one of the old gaskets and tell them to machine off the difference, ASSuming that they can do math).

Aside from that, just use the receptacle of your choice (egg cartons are always good, and you can write on them) to hold the rockers, pivots, pushrods, and lifters. You can jab the pushrods through the cardboard of the egg carton, so that you know which side points up and down.

You'll need a torque wrench and a tool to grab the lifters, and since you're getting machine work done, it would be best to remove the valves, so a valve spring compressor would be a good idea (place valves, keepers, and springs in egg cartons, or pre-labeled ZipLock bags, as well).

The heads and the intake will all be glued in place, so be prepared to whack with a wooden mallet or similar, and to pry with something long, to break them free.

Once the heads are off, you should clean the crud off of the piston crowns with a non-metallic scraper and a brass brush. I have found that SeaFoam, applied by spraying or pouring, will dissolve carbon on pistons, especially if left for a day or so.
If you are going to leave the heads off for more than a few days, you should coat the cylinder walls with a thin layer of grease, as they tend to rust when you're not expecting it.

- Eric

oldsguybry

Thank You Eric

BTW , it's the 455 we're talking about .

MDchanic

In that case, it's time to consider whether to drop the actual compression ratio from about 10:1 to about 9:1, whether to drop it a bit less (say, to 9.5:1) by machining only a little, or whether to keep it the same.

It really depends on how she's running, and the availability (and price) of high octane gas where you live.

Note that you may also drop your octane requirement by about a point by polishing your combustion chambers to remove the sand casting texture, though by removing this material without also decking the heads slightly, you will also be reducing your CR.

- Eric

oldsguybry

I would really like to get this motor rebuilt , or at least do what you mentioned above . I received a decent amount of money and could do this , but I really needed to get my debt mostly paid off , so I put the money in that direction instead . I could possibly pinch enough pennies to get the motor beefed up , but I think that would be the straw that breaks the transmissions back . I would be needing that , a post rear end , and a customized drive shaft first before I beef the motor up . The highest gas octane around here is 93 , unless you buy racing gas or add a octane booster . The carb and stove needs rebuilding according to Sparky so the motor could definitely run better then it is now .

MDchanic

Okay, but my point is that if the heads are already going to the machine shop, it's not too much effort for them to run it through the milling machine once or twice, so getting them decked a small amount might not cost much.

Polishing is something you can do yourself with an abrasive burr or two and a power drill or a pneumatic grinder (DO NOT hit the valve seats).

Where did you set the timing on this engine? Is it stock, or did you have to retard it?
If you can run stock timing with 93 octane, then you may want to deck the heads slightly if going to a thicker (FelPro) head gasket.
If you've got a little pinging, then leaving it as is may be just the ticket to improving that.

- Eric

oldsguybry

I never messed with the timing so I have no idea where the timing is at . I believe the motor does ping , or at least that's what I think the noise is . It seemed more noticeable last week when I took it for a drive because I bought gas but didn't add the booster that time . I bought race gas a few times but mainly I've been adding an octane booster to the 93 octane gas . I agree that I should have some work done on the heads as long as their off of the motor , I will also need a pair of W/Z manifolds and a new exhaust system to boot .

MDchanic

You need to know that.

- Eric

oldsguybry

I will get a cheap timing light and try and figure it out .

oldsguybry

I have a new issue now . The 455 has been dying on me while driving it lately . This only happened on two occasions weeks apart from each other , and it's like I'm running out of gas . The car ran fine before this and also ran fine in between these incidents . I managed to get the car home after I had to re-start it about 20 times along the way . It seems to help if I accelerate easy and put the car in neutral when coming to a complete stop . Maybe the carb is clogging up , or the fuel filter is dirty ?

joe_padavano

Very possibly. It could also be crud in the gas tank getting sucked up against the sock on the pickup tube. Once the car dies, the crud falls back into the tank and the cycle starts again.

oldsguybry

That would give me one more reason to drop the tank , the float sticks anyhow .

oldsguybry

Which one would you get ? I have the double lined fuel return one on the car now .I checked Rockauto , Summit Racing . It seems they either have the sock or a filter type at the bottom of unit . Dorman , Spectra , or Goodmark

Goodmark TNKFG91D

Spectra Premium FG91D

Dorman 692244

oldsguybry

I found the issue , the fuel filter was clogging up . I noticed what seemed to be really small pieces of metal wire inside the filter . Almost as if someone was wire wheeling the inside of the gas tank with a dremel bit .... Not good . The particles never got past the fuel filter though , I also noticed the carb was loose so I took it off inspected it , and then I put it back on . The car drives good now , I'm going to drop the tank to take a peek inside .

oldsguybry

I have the incorrect carb bracket for the accelerator cable , and there's slop on the gas pedal itself . I must of left the carb accelerator bracket on the 68 Toro cable when I dug the 455 out of that car , or something ..... I've also been having an issue with the tranny changing gears / upshifting when I hit the gas harder then normal . I get a shutter / rumble feeling when this happens . If I accelerate normally the tranny shifts fine .

I left out the fact that the incorrect carb bracket that I'm using was off of a 76 Olds 350 , or at least that's the motor that was in the 72CS when I bought it .

oldsguybry

oldsguybry

Well okay ? I put a piece of hose to take up slack on accelerator cable , but it doesn't seem to help with the transmission shifting issue I have lately , so I took it off for now . HOW do you adjust the kickdown cable ? I'm having an issue finding this online for some reason , maybe not wording it right .

oldsguybry

Does the kickdown cable need to be pushed all the way in as far as it will go ? Then have the accelerator cable re-crimped right at the linkage ?

oldsguybry

There's a off and on rattle sound coming from the transmission that you can hear , almost constant after the car is warmed up . I think the transmission maybe failing with the shifting issues and the noise I'm hearing?