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I worry more about fingers - those 650 pounds don't have to be swinging very fast to give you a nasty pinch against the firewall or upper control arm mounts, or whatever.
I worry more about fingers - those 650 pounds don't have to be swinging very fast to give you a nasty pinch against the firewall or upper control arm mounts, or whatever.
- Eric
Yeah , I'm going to watch that , that's the last thing I need . My shoulders / fingers are riddled with arthritis as it is .
I edited my last post . Here's another one I seen at McDonalds .....
Last edited by oldsguybry; July 5th, 2016 at 07:24 AM.
It didn't budge ..... I think maybe I didn't try to raise it high enough to start moving it like it does when it's on the floor , I was worried about breaking something . I have the two tranny bolts out , three torque converter bolts , six bell housing bolts , and of course the two long motor mount bolts .
Is the transmission supported at the front, so that it doesn't drop too much when the engine comes off of it (and so that you have a hope of getting the new engine onto it)?
You've got to pick the engine up out of the motor mounts, so that it can move forward, then pull it forward off of the bell housing locator pins (about half an inch) and then it will be apart. A long pry bar is often very helpful at this point, as "shaking" the engine back and forth to free it can be taxing to the upper body.
Also, you'll find it useful to readjust the supports under the front of the transmission to the height where the engine frees up, as this is where you'll need it to be to accept the new engine.
You've got the radiator out, fan and shroud off, and distributor cap (or entire distributor) off, too, right?
Did you slide the torque converter out of the crankshaft? you should be able to push it slightly into the transmission. Also make sure you have the transmission supported or you will have a whole other set of issues to deal with.
Is the transmission supported at the front, so that it doesn't drop too much when the engine comes off of it (and so that you have a hope of getting the new engine onto it)?
You've got to pick the engine up out of the motor mounts, so that it can move forward, then pull it forward off of the bell housing locator pins (about half an inch) and then it will be apart. A long pry bar is often very helpful at this point, as "shaking" the engine back and forth to free it can be taxing to the upper body.
Also, you'll find it useful to readjust the supports under the front of the transmission to the height where the engine frees up, as this is where you'll need it to be to accept the new engine.
You've got the radiator out, fan and shroud off, and distributor cap (or entire distributor) off, too, right?
- Eric
I got the engine out today , it came out real easy actually once I unbolted the engine pads from the engine along with that long bolt I mentioned earlier . I would raise the engine a bit and then raise the tranny a bit so everything was even . Once I was going to clear everything I pulled the engine hoist forward , and then the two separated . I couldn't leave the tranny where it was because it had a hydraulic jack / board under it , and I had to push the car back into the garage when I was done , so I lowered it back down . I'll check to make sure the torque converter didn't pull out any during this event , but it doesn't look like it did . I also didn't have to take the distributor off , the only thing that was getting caught on everything was the passenger side manifold , because of the A/C unit.
I couldn't figure out what was holding the engine at first , and that it kept wanting to turn as I was pulling on the engine hoist . That was until I discovered what it was shown in the picture below .
You have to remove the heater hose first ....
Did I ever mention I was paranoid ? I made training wheels for the engine hoist when I took the 455 out of the Toro because it wanted to topple . It turns out I just had the chains positioned wrong . I really didn't need it , but it sure looks funny ....
Here's the resting place for the motor for now . More to come tomorrow ...
I'm having a real issue with space in this one car garage .
I will post some more pictures when I get time later possibly , but I can already see a problem with the power steering bracket that bolts to the side of the motor . It doesn't line up with the bolt hole at all , it's a good couple of inches away or so . I will also be needing a spacer / bolt for this bracket in that location , because there was no bolt or spacer on my 76 Olds 350 motor when I removed the bracket . I looked up the torque spec for the valve covers and oil pan . It says the VC is 7lbs , but the OP is 12lbs ?
Because it's a conventional RH thread. It's just torqued to 150 ft lbs or so. Eat your Wheaties.
I ate two chili cheese dogs for lunch , does that count ? The motor is out of the car and wants to spin while I'm trying to turn it . I stopped that from happening , but I will have to brace the motor better so it don't fall over lol . It's just a bit unstable .
So why are you trying to remove the balancer? The pulley is attached with 4 bolts to the balancer. 9/16 head I think. Could be 1/2. It's been a while since I worked on one.
So why are you trying to remove the balancer? The pulley is attached with 4 bolts to the balancer. 9/16 head I think. Could be 1/2. It's been a while since I worked on one.
I wondered about that myself . So I just have to remove the 4 small bolts and get a puller to get the pulley off ? The stupid puller I rented wasn't going to work because the bolts weren't long enough on the puller to reach the bolt holes , so I took it back . I could of swore the instructions said to remove the main bolt . I sat there and looked at the pulley and scratched my head , because it didn't look like I had to remove the balancer bolt to get the pulley off . Good , that's one less thing I have to do then . Sorry for the confusion guys .
Yes, just remove the four bolts with ½" heads, then whack the pulley with a wooden mallet.
I would NOT swap the pulleys from the 455 to the 350, though, as you will change your water pump speed, unless the pulleys are the same size, in which case there's no reason to change them.
I would NOT swap the pulleys from the 455 to the 350, though, as you will change your water pump speed, unless the pulleys are the same size, in which case there's no reason to change them.
- Eric
This is done all the time with no issue as the change in impeller speed is nominal. He is swapping the drive pulleys from the 350 to the 455 along with the water pump (or new replacement) to make sure that everything lines up.
It also makes getting bets for the car easier.
And it's easy to get parts for a Toro engine of that year.
It is NOT easy to get a set of belts for a "'68 Toro with '71 350 pulleys," though.
I repeat, there is NO REASON to swap the pulleys, UNLESS he discovers some specific clearance issue once the engine is installed.
It is extra work with no gain.
But the brackets on the Toro engine are designed around the front mount AND he will be using the Cutlass power steering bracket.
It just makes more sense to use what came on the car and get the longer belt for the alternator. The power steering belt is the same for the 350 and the 455.
Yeah , I could never get a concrete answer on WHY I should change the pulleys and accessories on the 455 , but a number of people told me to do so from this website . One reason I could come up with is maybe the wiring , alternator / voltage regulator differences . Oh well , the deed is almost done at this point , the only thing left to swap is the water pump and the bottom balancer pulley . Do you guys actually rent or own a torque wrench small enough to torque the Valve Cover and Oil Pan ? Mine starts at 60ft lbs , so I may have to rent one or buy one .
I have pictures I have to upload on things I mentioned already and what not , I just have to get around to doing this later . I've been working quite a bit lately .
Yeah , I could never get a concrete answer on WHY I should change the pulleys and accessories on the 455 , but a number of people told me to do so from this website . One reason I could come up with is maybe the wiring , alternator / voltage regulator differences . Oh well , the deed is almost done at this point , the only thing left to swap is the water pump and the bottom balancer pulley . Do you guys actually rent or own a torque wrench small enough to torque the Valve Cover and Oil Pan ? Mine starts at 60ft lbs , so I may have to rent one or buy one .
I have pictures I have to upload on things I mentioned already and what not , I just have to get around to doing this later . I've been working quite a bit lately .
Nice work and pics!!
My 3/8" drive torque wrench starts at 25 ft lbs. $20 at Harbor Freight
The balancer pulley came off pretty easy tonight , so the only thing left to do in general is .... Get the balancer pulley off of the 455 , the water pump , the flex plate , and then swap them out . I already have these parts off of the 350 . The worst part is going to be getting the 5 broken bolts out . 3 are in the motor , and 2 are in the one of the manifolds . I will have to drill and tap the ones in the manifold unfortunately .
Here is a picture of the power steering bracket that's not even close to the bolt hole ....
Here's the incorrect power steering pump I bought a few years back when I was trouble shooting the front end noise on my 72 CS . It turned out to be the fan clutch , but I thought it was the bearings in the PS pump . So what did I do ? I bought a PS pump for a 72 CS when it has a 76 350 in it ... doh . By the time I figured this out I didn't really feel like swapping it back out with the old one , so I left it until now ...
I almost missed this gasket when I swapped the oil filter adapter ....
The exhaust manifold goes between the head and that PS bracket.
Sorry , it's the alternator bracket , not the PS bracket . Either way there's still a problem with the bolt hole lining up with the alternator bracket . I'm assuming the bracket is supposed to bolt on top of the exhaust manifold utilizing that last bolt hole . I have an idea in mind to make it work if needed though . I'm wondering if people were thinking because I have a 72 CS that there's a 72 Olds 350 in it , When in fact it's a 76 350 . Maybe this is why some of the accessories don't completely jive .
There's wasn't a ton I could do today , but all that's left to do is get the broken bolts out , and then install the motor . Of course trying to get the flexplate out meant that the motor wanted to turn , so I used the mounting bolts from the starter to keep that from happening ....
Here's some chipped teeth from the 455 flex plate ....
I was hoping the heater valve from the 350 would fit on the 455 motor , but no such luck . i will have to buy one ....
I'm going to just use the water pump from the 350 because it's fairly new . I just replaced the gasket ....
I was curious as to see how stretched the timing chain was on the 350 , and it was pretty loose ....
The 350 is looking kind of naked by now ....
Here's what the 455 is looking like after today ....
You've been busy. I noticed something about your 350 dampner in your pics. The outer ring appears to have slipped. Please don't try to reuse it. Photo above this one shows it well also. That ring should be flush and it isn't.
You've been busy. I noticed something about your 350 dampner in your pics. The outer ring appears to have slipped. Please don't try to reuse it. Photo above this one shows it well also. That ring should be flush and it isn't.
Sorry if I don't know a ton when it comes to the proper terminology on what things are called , but do you mean that cast iron ring on the outside of the harmonic balancer ? If you're referring to that then you are correct about it moving . I could take a pry bar and easily move it back and forth .
Sorry if I don't know a ton when it comes to the proper terminology on what things are called , but do you mean that cast iron ring on the outside of the harmonic balancer ? If you're referring to that then you are correct about it moving . I could take a pry bar and easily move it back and forth .
What Eric said. The outer ring serves two purposes. Most importantly, the rubber allows it to damp crankshaft torsional vibrations. If it's loose, it won't do that. Second, it locates the timing mark. If it moves, timing will be off. The failure mode is that the ring completely slips off the hub and either slides back against the front cover or forward into the pulley. Either way, this is bad. Replace it.
Note, Joe, that that's the balancer on his "old" 1976 350 that he removed, which he is replacing with the "new" '68 Toro 455, in his '71 Cutlass, and is swapping all of the brackets and pulleys from the 350 to the 455 before doing so.
It took way too long to drill the two broken bolts out of the exhaust manifold . I bought cobalt drill bits this time around vs titanium the last time I did this . The guy at the hardware store told me the cobalt bits are better , but I think the real problem was that I should of drill a smaller hole first , and then used the bigger bit . I even bought a decent drill bit sharpener to keep the bits sharp , but it still took too long . I also bought a new heater control valve , and a torque wrench that goes from 0 to 75ft lbs ....
Ok guys , all the pulleys DO line up from the 350 on the 455 , BUT I couldn't use the bottom pulley because it's too large , and it hits the fan clutch pulley . Luckily there's no depth differences with the two pulleys and I could use the 455 one .
This is a 76 OLD'S 350 . There are differences with this motor and the 72 350 . With that , I would like to know WHY I couldn't use the accessories from the 455 ? It seems everything would of worked fine with clearance issues . ( forgive me if I forgot about something mentioned earlier ) The ONLY thing I can think of or remember is ....
Voltage issues with voltage regulator vs different alternator ....
Existing wiring from 72CS connecting to alternator ....
The water pump is considerably longer on the 76 350 vs the one that was on the 68 455 . I hope this doesn't hit the radiator after I get a 4 core aluminum radiator .
July 5th, 2016, 07:21 AM
, that's the last thing I need . My shoulders / fingers are riddled with arthritis as it is . 
....
