smash72

Anyone know anything about these aluminum heads offered by Bernard Mondello Racing ?
Pro Comp aluminum heads, pro comp valves, & upgraded premium springs shipped $1200 they also offer matching manifold (similar to Edelbrock) for $219 built for the 350 ,400,455 ect. This sounds like made in China cheap to me. Has anyone bought these or know of these guys

Magna86

Yes alot of guys have bought these heads. They are very good heads and rival the edelbrock for less money. Bernard is the only person I would buy a set from because he actually inspects them to makesure there is nothing wrong with the parts and tolerances. Yes they are made in China but if you want made in USA then you'll spend atleast $400-600 more without someone going through them(they have issues at times too) for Edelbrocks. Search the forums for Procomp heads and you'll see the threads

steve442

Right.... Edelbrock did all the work, spent all the R/D making them here in the USA, then procomp comes along and has someone from china make them for cheaper, the Chineese are real good at doing this. I would not own a set of there knockoffs. If Edelbrock never made these, guess what procomp wouldnt be selling them.

Fullsizelover

I want to buy a bare set when my holiday money comes in and I was thinking about the valves as well but not a complete set of heads.
Speedmaster valves cost $50, Edelbrock $120 and Manley $240. Since I will never race the car, will the Speedmaster valves be any good?

smash72

It's like the old saying "If it sounds to good to be true ?? Than it's probably made in China. (Kinda revised that last part but fitting) These guys are pretty slick as they go out of there way to tell you about there state of the art machine shop also talking about the molding of the fine aluminum, while never admitting to any actual work except assembly, maybe inspection as mentioned. Certainly no overseas mention was given to these " Of the finest quality heads" Sounds like slick, oily, used car salesmen like marketing to me. I need another reason to consider these guys. I will pay the extra nickel or so for the real deal. Or maybe I'm living in the past & wasting money on the same product. Buy American is still worth something extra right ??

70cutty

I used Procomp on my build. They are a nice alternative to iron and Edelbrock at a reasonable price. The way I see it performance world continues to evolve, anybody willing to produce Oldsmobile parts and expand the selection of parts, is more than welcome. Both Edelbrock and Procomp need some cleaning out of the box. If you go Procomp I would only get them from Bernard Mondello. IMO they are the best bang for the buck.

76olds

Its all about saving $$ IMO, you can continue to sink you hard earned cash into locally made parts to try and save an already corrupt system. Its your choice, I myself have given up on looking at the labels (made in). As 70cutty mentioned he has a set of procomps that work great, However he had one of the best engine guys on this site build his engine ( cutlassefi). I would buy them in a heartbeat to save a few $$ provided I had an engine builder like Mark putting his expertise in each build he does. I wish he was up here in Canada because the U.S dollar and shipping just kills us to purchase engines built down there.

76olds

Steve your absolutely right, Edelbrock paved the way for knockoffs. However I'm sure you are well aware that business decisions have to come into play when competition surfaces. If a company such as Edelbrock or any other companies that have been around and haven't taken the revenues made over the years to re-evaluate processes and pricing, then get ready to take the hit.
Its difficult to compete with the Asian manufactures but at the end of the year along with year over year we better soon learn.

I wonder how many sets of Edelbrocks have been built and sitting on the shelves now that procomps came to the market?
Hmmm warehouse space isn't cheap, Just in time deliveries create problems with quality standards.
We can deal with quality standards coming in under spec at times when your saving thousands of dollars over the year.

cutlassefi

[QUOTE=steve442;812709]Edelbrock did all the work, spent all the R/D making them here in the USA.[QUOTE]

No they didn't. Joe Mondello did all the R&D FOR Edelbrock. And if it was really an issue do you think Joe's son would be one of the largest Procomp dealers in the country? I sincerely doubt it.
Fact is they are a viable option to stock irons. Imo we need more products like this.

80 Rocket

How does a North American company compete with an Asian company? North America has a lot going against it (I'm thinking EPA, labor costs) which drives up the price of a North American product.

I am qualified to speak on this subject since the company I own deals directly with overseas product (I import some products). I still produce in America, and take pride in that fact.....but what sets me apart is a certain product I have has yet to be reproduced in likeness by foreign or domestic companies. Sure, my designs have been copied in design, and they have gone around patents I have, but they have been yet to reproduce the process by which I make the product, which has everything to do with the ability of the product to work exceptionally in the field.

However, with a market full of consumers who neither appreciate originality, innovation, or results.....I am left with a good product that is seeing its market share being gobbled up by big corporations with no talent, no ideas, and a product that does not work half as well as mine......but the consumer saved a few pennies.

Let's be up front here. When Pro Comp first came out with their products into the marketplace (small block chevy), that stuff was absolute JUNK. What does that tell you about that company? It says that they used their customers as guinea pigs......there was no R&D work to make sure they had a good product. They let all the people with their hard earned money find out the flaws, in turn ruining many engines. If you all want to give your money to a company like that, go right ahead. Tell me the Olds community needs more vendors like that.

I personally could not sleep well at night knowing I am using customers as a test bed for a product with lots of questions. I look at my customers as my equal in the performance game. Someone who does not have disposable income to throw away....someone who might have a family and is on a strict budget....someone who wants to do it right the first time and is willing to pay the extra few hundred bucks a piece of mind would cost.

For these reasons, I would NEVER run a Pro Comp head on anything I own. To each his own. However, I would feel secure buying these heads from Bernard Mondello.

80 Rocket

By the way, one of the major players in the racing cylinder head game, Chad Spierer, has his whole import line of CNC heads for sale. You can buy the program he has because he is getting out of the import game. The man is one of the few guys in the country who knows his *** from a hole in the ground when it comes to cylinder heads.

His import line of heads has actually had great reviews, but I have to ask, why would he be getting out of that market?

http://www.vfactorracingheads.com/

smash72

Never was a fan of the cheap, mass produced, overseas crap and to then put in on my American Muscle Olds. I'm pretty sure someone over there is not polishing heads thinking about a big block 455. Bernard might be some kind of guru, nice guy who really knows his stuff. But at some point he sold out to the mighty dollar & now talks about porting ProComp heads in his American Racing Facility. There is something to be said about piece of mind. I guess I will just have to pay a little extra for mine.
Especially cruising in that Memorial or 4th of July parade.

76olds

[QUOTE=80 Rocket;813031]How does a North American company compete with an Asian company? North America has a lot going against it (I'm thinking EPA, labor costs) which drives up the price of a North American product.

We simply cannot.
However we are adapting by networking and working together in our industry.
Those that do not adapt don't survive.
You may get top dollar today for your products from a select few with more $$, but tomorrow you will sit on it and wait for the general public to buy your stuff.
Be prepared.
It begins with strict health and safety/ environmental procedures in all manufacturing.
Then couple that with ISO,QS and TE certifications that must be met.
As some of you know I own a medium size Tool and Die shop.
I'm lucky if I get 8-10 new die builds each year with minimal profit margins, then apply for the R&D kick back only to get nothing.
Did I make money 8-10 years ago, you betchya.
Where did it go, blowing it on environmental/ strict health and safety procedures, Tooling Certifications, new machines and software to compete.
I take in NEW DIE BUILDS that have been built overseas for repair, sometimes complete tear-down, redesign and machine just to get them to make parts.
Why, Ha ... they don't follow any of the north american standards, they have their own.
Many Asian companies are coming up to better standards yes, but it will take many more years before we see it.
Why did our governments allow this to happen?? Cha Ching is all I have to say Thank-you.
So buy cheap, repair if need be, if it doesn't last then throw it in the garbage and buy another .
That's the way of the new world.
Eric

Fun71

New World Order / redistribution of wealth. In order for the poor countries' standard of living to increase, the wealthy countries' standard of living must decrease.

80 Rocket

Sure, the average consumer is that way.......but that's because they are too dumb to realize it is cheaper to do it right the first time.

When I open my toolbox, I see cheap Chinese tools, and then I have some really good high end stuff where it is needed. I'm not saying everyone needs to buy the best pencils on the market, because a cheaper one will do.......but cylinder heads seems like a dumb place to cheap out when it means quality could be compromised.

70cutty

So you are calling me dumb because I got my heads from Bernard Mondello and they are procomp??? First of all both Mark and I agreed that procomp would be better for my build because of my goal and getting them from Bernard I doubt I am sacrificing on quality, second I have 3 little kids, I am the only one working and I live in sf bay area one of the most expensive places to live in the country, so that being said I welcome somebody producing cheaper parts that allow me to keep my hobby going without taking away from my kids. No need for insults here, calling people dumb because they tried out alternative way is very shallow. The fact is that that phone you talk on, that tv you watch, that computer you are typing on and 75% of your tools are made in Asia. Oldsmobile parts are already a lot more expensive than Chevy or ford, competition brings prices down so I welcome it. As a matter of fact I welcome anything that keeps my cars on the road and let's me enjoy my already expensive hobby, regardless of where it came from. Welcome to 21st century.

cutlassefi

Edin, don't waste your breath. Don has a hard on for Procomp and parts like it. I'm done fighting with him on this stuff. Just move on. Otherwise it'll go nowhere for sure.
Jmo.

80 Rocket

Did you happen to see my first post where I said I would buy these heads with confidence from Bernard Mondello?

80 Rocket

I got a hard on for guys like you running around saying the heads are fine, when you buy them bare and have your machinist set them up.

My problem is people who think they are buying a good set of heads "ready to run" from fly by night ebay vendor. I made that clear many times.

cutlassefi

The only difference I see here is our own definitions of "fine". If you have a problem with them assembled that's fine. Then just tell people to buy them bare. Problem solved.

madmax442

Before I give you my opinion I just want to say, use your money how you want! It's your money!

For me I will spend my money on American made every time and I do so to try and keep American dollars here. I still believe in American Quality although my faith in that is diminishing as we see more and more vendors/parts suppliers outsourcing work to China and other countries. I find that very sad but that's the world we live in. Hopefully America will see the light someday and bring jobs back but who knows if that will ever happen. I may be the dumb one for thinking this way but I guess it's the patriot in me that still believes in the American Dream!

80 Rocket

Fine.

smash72

Didn't mean to start trouble but I to will buy here as much as possible. I don't think the quality of USA products is the problem it's all the politics and paperwork needed to be paid before you can start to work. I own a small business and between every small township in my pocket for Licences and permits, there's workmens comp issues, & municipal taxes. Schooling every six months all costs money. It Goes on and on before you know it your hourly rate keeps getting raised to offset all the red tape. There are to many people with there hand out in this country and not enough with there sleeves rolled up that's my problem. But I too hope for better days. And will buy American tell the end. Simple solution Stop giving people everything and make them earn it. In Phoenix they built a brand new hospitol. To have his baby there cost my bro in law's insurance $6300 cost him about $1200 But if you have no job no insurance no problem $9 Why would anyone work in this country if you can get everything for nothing.(Obama) Start there. It's got nothing to do with the product here it cost more because of all the white collar BS China is just plain cheap and not a democracy. most factories are sweat shops with long hours low pay and shut your mouth. Most workers just smile and say thank you sir can I have another. Sorry hit a little nerve there bottom line we do live in a democracy and people can go where buy where and sell where every they want everything else is just opinion.

steve442

I think so.

76olds

Have you made a decision on what heads you are going to purchase?

edzolz

I agree with this. I owned a business building atrium (garden) windows. The government passed legislation that all windows in new construction homes be certified energy efficient. The department that certifies such windows stated that garden windows could not be certified because of the different openings of the windows. The only way they could be certified would to be to test each window individually. That wiped out the entire industry for placing that type of window in new home construction. That left only replacement for older windows as the only market. That closed me down because there was no volume in the business.

steverw

Its not just the ProComp heads, there are alot of the reproduction parts we need for these cars. And I dare say, ill bet many of them are made in China. Perhaps designed here but made in China, and theres no where else to get some of these parts unless you can find NOS or used in good enough condition to restore. I wont use alot of Asian parts, perticularly suspension parts. I dont have a problem with the ProComp heads as Ebrock is the only other alternative, not like Chevy, Ford, Chrysler that has many suppliers making parts for them. I do think we need more suppliers of Olds parts. And more parts reproduced that are not available, for all years of our cars. But obviously the ProComp heads are pretty good. Dosent Smitty also set up and sell these?

madmax442

There are other alternatives but some just aren't in production anymore!

PowerToTheMaxx

Ok, question...

Wheres the best place to buy MOndello Procomp heads?
Because theyre here for $1100ish:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BERNARD-MOND...-/271826958216

Heres Edelbrock ones, $960... So theyre both complete heads with valves... right?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ed...ake/oldsmobile

Why are the edelbrock ones 200 cheaper? Im assuming Im missing something so help me out please.

midrange

Looks like at Summit, that $960 price is for one head.

Down the spec page, for quantity, it says 'Sold individually'.

70cutty

As we discussed few comments ago, Bernard Mondello is the best place to buy the Procomp. Also you can feel good about your purchase by supporting a small business.

As mentioned by midrange the price of Edelbrock's is each head not the pair.

VinMichael

I bought these heads bare. I'm going to build them up.

PowerToTheMaxx

Ahh. See, I knew I was missing something. Thanks

Troys Toy 70

I would like to know if anyone is using the pro comps with factory A/C and PB.

What mods had to be made to the factory AC/PS/PB brackets to get the belts to run true?

As always pics if you have them.

buzzbomb

I used edelbrocks on my 425 and very little bracket mods are needed. The p/s pump had to be shimmed out about 2 washers and the rest was a little grinding on the brackets where they bolt to the manafold to fit around the manafold runners. My manafold was an edelbrock air gap so other manafolds may vary but not much.