JCMC64

Car- 71' Cutlass S w\ 72' 455 and TH400.
Specs:

--Bored 30 over
--Keith Black 030 Pistons - KB132-030
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/UEM-KB132-030/

--Clevite Cam, Main and Rod bearings
--Possibly Clevite or Hastings Rings (according to "616 030" part number)
--Melling HV oil pump

DO NOT KNOW CAM SPECS> guy I bought it off was in a bad way, and
only said it was "3 steps above the stock cam."

You can hear the car here - http://youtu.be/nu6HmOjM-X0


The current carb is a Roch Q-jet 800 cfm coded 17058253 BBC (1978)

I got a nice 72' 800 cfm 442 Q-jet coded 7042251 RE (last digit "1" a manual coded car where a "2" is Auto...is that correct or hearsay?)

Will this 72' carb be a good carb to match above build along with an Edel performer/torker/air gap intake? Im thinking with the 030 block, KB pistons and the decent cam thats in it, beefed up bottom end and valve work, etc.... the new rpm range can handle upto an RPM air gap. Which intake mani do you like for above?
Thoughts? Thx.

oldcutlass

Well the performer is a dual plane, good from idle-5500 rpm! If your not racing or going up to 6500, thats what I would stick with. The airgap is a square bore carb manifold, will not work out of the box with a Q-jet carb.. The Torker is a single plane good from 2500-6500 RPM, imo not streetable, prone to hard cold starts..

70Wcars

That '72 Q-jet is a 750...but will work fine with a combo such as yours. Tough to say without Cam specs, but carb will need to be re-calibrated possibly for idle and of course main circuit. Performer should be great on that " oldcutlass" is right about the Torker.

Danny

JCMC64

Thx guys.
I got a chart someone made for me and I will take a pic of it and post it.
It compares RPM Air Gap vs Torker, and I will throw it to the wolves for dissection!
Its not an exact numbers chart but rather a theoretical chart to give an idea between the two intakes, so dont rip the HP numbers, shift points etc, as they are just to give you an idea of basic theory. But I am interested in anyone who wants to comment on it and support it or correct it. Thx.

Anyone else out there want to comment on initial question??????
Also how would the 78' Q-Jet that is a 800cfm compare to this 72 Q-Jet below?

70Wcars

I doubt you need the extra 50 cfm and the older Q-jet is a closer match for your car. The Air Gap will not fit any Q-jet without an adapter which will cause Hood clearance issues. I ran the regular Performer with one of my own Blueprinted Q-jets and went deep into the 11's with my old C head combo...just some food for thought.

Danny

JCMC64

Thx Danny,
I got ya...you like the Performer. Good real world input.

I was also hoping to get some more input from allot of different members...any Torker fans out there?

"Torker-II produces gains in top-end horsepower with adequate throttle response. These manifolds are not mileage or emissions related manifolds, for high-performance street applications."

Found this helpful thread and input-
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post389750

JCMC64

Found this input which is exactly where the chart I have someone gave me and other input I got left me:

"...Re manifolds the torker will make more horsepower ,as it is more free flowing , but you loose a bit of torque whereas the performer will have a bit more low end torque but loose a bit of top end hp. Depends what you want really, more snappy off the line or a top end charger. "

JCMC64

Another idea for Torkers I found -

"If not using one already I recommend using a 1 inch spacer on the torker, Car Craft saw a 30hp gain with their 455 build up. I reckon you may see @ 450 horsepower and @ 560lbs torque, Paul, 10 sec Old's Cutlass Supreme in the U.K. "

JCMC64

Just pouring over all the old post I can find on the subject of 455's and what intake on moderate builds. Allot of performer reccommendations on stock builds, quite a few Torkers too, and some RPM air gaps reccomendations when they came out. But here is another interesting post by I believe it was 57olds :

"We ran that cam in a real basic +.030 455, in a 70 Cutlass Supreme, bench seat, column shift, and it ran consistent 12:50's. We swapped gears from 3:90's to 4:10's to 3:73's, and the ET's stayed the same. We swapped from a Performer to a Torker, and the ET's still stayed the same."

Trying to post all the real pertinent post as I find them.

MX442

I remember reading where someone here did the torker / 1" spacer because of the Car Craft article, and actually LOST HP.

Either of your Q-Jets will work well with modifications. If you posted the numbers correctly, the 1978 one is an Olds unit. If the inlet is 90 degrees, then it is a Chevy.

JCMC64

Its definitely an Olds 1978 Q-Jet. Got a rookie edumacation on how to decode them by doing alot of reading and research...the inlet is straight.

JCMC64

Intake Chart I mentioned above:

Where the HP kicks in or, other parts of chart are not supposed to be exact what is going on, but rather a general
theory of the different intakes. Should of had him add a stock mani in the chart too.

JCMC64

Intake Chart I mentioned above:

JCMC64

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...e/viewall.html

ah64pilot

I have a Torker on my car...I'd say it made good power. It's also very street-able with a good carburetor that is tuned for the car. I have no issues with cold starts or anything...then again, cold for me is 65 degrees Gotta love Houston

JCMC64

Cold for me is 75 degrees....got to love So Florida!!
(So cold starts arent an issue for me either.)

Thx for the input. What is your CR on your block? Are we talking about your car in the Build section you got documented there?
I read that whole thread if it is. Nice work. I was in the Military from 83'-90' - USS Nimitz btw.

I think the concern here that some are inputting is using a Torker on low to mid power engines.

I think mine is more in mid power range, but since I got a such a good deal on the car, I had to accept the fact that I had
so-so documentation. I tried to get as much info on engine as I could, but guy was such in a bad way, I could only get what I
got here below. I dont know my CR, and only info I got on the cam is "3 levels above stock". But I wasnt going to let that stop
me from such a terrific deal on the car.

So I got these KB pistons, unknown cam, and picking a manifold to get the most out of
her is tough. She is bored 30 over, those Keith Black pistons attached (and above link), and a "3 level" up cam, which is hardly anything to go on for sure.

Anyways, is there any way I can get the CR and at least some cam specs while the manifold is off using an unconventional method? measure lifters height while turning
crankshaft? Thx.

JCMC64

Dyno test - Dual plane vs. Single Plane -

http://youtu.be/i2DvnoHWagk
"Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow"

Intragration

It's hard to tell from your video because the car is idling pretty high, but the cam doesn't sound like it would fall into the "3 steps above stock" category. Just my observation, not picking. I also do not know the specs of my cam, I was told it was a "mild cam", but it sounds a lot like yours. Anyway, I have a Performer on mine, ~9.5:1 CR and a puny Edelbrock carb. It's got loads of low end torque, great driveability, and the top end is not disappointing. Looking forward to putting my Q-jet on. I have no plans to rev it above 5500.

oldcutlass

I agree not much of a cam in your video. The nice thing about having choices is you get to make one. I personally would go with the performer and your rochester.

ziff396

I run a performer on mine. I have tried Edelbrock 1407, 750, and Holley street avenger 870 cfm. I now am very happy with my late 70's 800 cfm Quadrajet all set up for my combo.

joepenoso

Hey Ziff:
What are your carb settings?
Thanks
joepenoso

JCMC64

Thx for all the input.

I had a 78' 800cfm Rochester on her from the orig owner (intake and carb not on it right now). Seemed pretty good.

Seems the hands down advice is performer with the 72' Q-Jet.
Conervative route.

My son is in my ear everyday, "C'mon you ol fart, get the Air gap and aftermarket carb!!"

All he thinks about is speed and power, not mpg.
He says you all are just ol farts, too conservative... like me!!

"Young grasshopper...take the pebble from my hand"

ah64pilot

I get 6 mpg with my Torker intake and "aftermarket carb"...you tell your son we're not ALL old farts! LOL! And when he wants to pay $4.21 a gal for every 6 miles he drives down the road he can build it the way he wants haha!

JCMC64

Check the vid out I posted above, not exactly apples to apples, but close.
They used a 1 inch spacer to correct bottom end RPM issues during Dyno testing between different intakes.
http://youtu.be/i2DvnoHWagk

The vid also highly recommends the Plenum mod for the dual planes.

ziff396

I am not sure. I had the carb built for me, and set up for my engine and drive train spec's. Either way, he seems to have nailed it.

MX442

Your right, that is not apples to apples. Here is the reference to the Car Craft article, the Torker, and a 1" spacer. Starts at post #7
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post366002

I would recommend the Performer, with the 1978 Q-Jet, and electric choke. This is exactly what I did to my '68 400. Great street runner. (and 8 mpg ) The late model Q-Jets have better part throttle tuning via the APT screw. Once you screw around with these, you see the advantages over the older models.

Specs you say,
Use at your own risk, here's what I did to my 78 Q-jet:

Base plate mods:
Rebush throttle shaft
Drill idle mixture screw holes to .090, cut 1.5 coil from spring.
Drill idle bypass to .070"

Carb body mods:
Resize: Idle tubes .036, Idle channel .046, upper air bleed .070, fuel seat .135, main air bleed .070.
Mains = 73, Rod = custom .044" from Ruggles
I don't have the secondary # in my notes, but I think it is DA rods, K hanger.

Air horn mods:
Main air .070, accelerator pump hole .028, down tubes, .036, notched secondary air flaps.

If this is buy the book:
http://www.cliffshighperformance.com/buy_book_2.html

Hope this helps