Help decoding Codes
February 28th, 2012, 04:25 PM
#1
JC
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: So Florida
Posts: 1,069
Help decoding Codes
71' Cutlass S 455
VIN - 336871R152844
Cowl tag - is loaded with paint and partially sanded. Will work on this week.
Engine - 396021 F (F is in Serif font so is a 2nd run 32R163698series 70-74 block...I believe, according to Wildaboutcars)
Engine stamp pad reads -
Heads - G heads, small A, Head code looks like 409 100
Trans - 72 OD 4438
Rearend- R2 B 159 - (bummer
) This is Buick 2:56 correct? Shouldnt it be an "O" not a "B"? Anyways, Grandma gears.)
Any help on what is going on here is appreciated.
A thread on Head codes to would be helpful.
Thx.
VIN - 336871R152844
Cowl tag - is loaded with paint and partially sanded. Will work on this week.
Engine - 396021 F (F is in Serif font so is a 2nd run 32R163698series 70-74 block...I believe, according to Wildaboutcars)
Engine stamp pad reads -
Heads - G heads, small A, Head code looks like 409 100
Trans - 72 OD 4438
Rearend- R2 B 159 - (bummer
) This is Buick 2:56 correct? Shouldnt it be an "O" not a "B"? Anyways, Grandma gears.)Any help on what is going on here is appreciated.
A thread on Head codes to would be helpful.
Thx.
Last edited by JCMC64; February 29th, 2012 at 10:35 AM.
February 28th, 2012, 05:06 PM
#2
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Your VIN
3 - Olds division
36 - series 3600 = V8 Cutlass
87 - hardtop coupe
1 - model year
R - built at Arlington
152844 - plant sequential number
The engine is what you thought. 396021F is the casting for 455 for your year. If you want to see if it's the original check the engine stamping pad below the #1 cylinder.
GA Heads are from a 72. For 71 they should be G
Trans - Also from a 72 because it starts with 72 - OD,
The head casting numbers for both 71 and 72 455 should be: 409100. Only difference is 72 has 3 ribs on the exhaust runner. These head castings will be separated into 2 groups of 3. You will see 409 above and to the left of the plug, and 100 above and to the right of the plug. Here's a pic of what I'm talking about courtesy of Wild About Cars tech section
3 - Olds division
36 - series 3600 = V8 Cutlass
87 - hardtop coupe
1 - model year
R - built at Arlington
152844 - plant sequential number
The engine is what you thought. 396021F is the casting for 455 for your year. If you want to see if it's the original check the engine stamping pad below the #1 cylinder.
GA Heads are from a 72. For 71 they should be G
Trans - Also from a 72 because it starts with 72 - OD,
The head casting numbers for both 71 and 72 455 should be: 409100. Only difference is 72 has 3 ribs on the exhaust runner. These head castings will be separated into 2 groups of 3. You will see 409 above and to the left of the plug, and 100 above and to the right of the plug. Here's a pic of what I'm talking about courtesy of Wild About Cars tech section
Last edited by Allan R; February 28th, 2012 at 05:10 PM.
February 28th, 2012, 05:14 PM
#3
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
R2 B is correct for Olds. As per the 71 CSM B is one of the manufacturers codes, the others are "O" "C" and "K". I don't know what 159 is though. So, yes it has 2:56 gears - great for highway. With a 455 though, that should be plenty of power and torque to launch your car. Not whopping fast but pretty decent.
February 28th, 2012, 07:01 PM
#4
JC
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: So Florida
Posts: 1,069
Thx Alan for such detailed info.
Just one correction, when I said G heads, with little A, I was referring to what I believe is the letter A way below the main letter G not next to it.
I understood the A to mean hardened valve seats. Here is a pic.
The other codes you refer to on the heads is really tough to see on this block. Its got really thick coat of black engine paint on it. I will try hard though to see whats there though.
Just one correction, when I said G heads, with little A, I was referring to what I believe is the letter A way below the main letter G not next to it.
I understood the A to mean hardened valve seats. Here is a pic.
The other codes you refer to on the heads is really tough to see on this block. Its got really thick coat of black engine paint on it. I will try hard though to see whats there though.
February 28th, 2012, 07:26 PM
#5
JC
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: So Florida
Posts: 1,069
I did verify the exhaust runners you referred to seem to be 2 ribs on this one.
The casting numbers are there, can make out a little bit, but very tough due to the thick paint.
I will post what I find on this post in couple hours or sooner.
Its so hard to take pics of this area on black thick paint.
...get lighting right, take pic, comes out like crap, adjust lighting again, adjust
camera settings, take another pic, fuzzy and bad, back start hurting from leaning all contorted,
adjust lighting again, adjust camera, light falls on my head, put light back, take another pic...terrible again.
Readjust light, bend over again, try to focus good with macro on, get it just right as back is screaming, take pic,
batteries die....!! URGGHH
The casting numbers are there, can make out a little bit, but very tough due to the thick paint.
I will post what I find on this post in couple hours or sooner.
Its so hard to take pics of this area on black thick paint.
...get lighting right, take pic, comes out like crap, adjust lighting again, adjust
camera settings, take another pic, fuzzy and bad, back start hurting from leaning all contorted,
adjust lighting again, adjust camera, light falls on my head, put light back, take another pic...terrible again.
Readjust light, bend over again, try to focus good with macro on, get it just right as back is screaming, take pic,
batteries die....!! URGGHH
February 28th, 2012, 07:36 PM
#6
JC
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: So Florida
Posts: 1,069
It looks like those Head numbers are 409100 or 408100. It looks more like 409 after studying it a bit.
As for the other number referred to in my original post - 32R163698, that is the number below the #1 cylinder (see pic)
Actually your pic with arrows above look exactly like these heads.
As for the other number referred to in my original post - 32R163698, that is the number below the #1 cylinder (see pic)
Actually your pic with arrows above look exactly like these heads.
Last edited by JCMC64; February 28th, 2012 at 08:10 PM.
February 28th, 2012, 07:52 PM
#7
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
If you're having trouble with the camera? Look for your 'macro' setting. That will allow you to get better close ups. I know how hard it is to take pics with black paint. Here's what I do. I use my shop light to provide light source. Turn off the camera flash, and use the macro feature. Pics turn out great every time. If your hands aren't too steady you can always use a prop to steady the camera.
February 28th, 2012, 08:01 PM
#8
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
LOL! I just realized what you were trying to get across with the 32R163698! It's not a head code. That's the engine stamping pad on the block, not the head. It is located below the #1 cylinder, but is not on the head. Looks like it got double stamped for some reason.
Here's what it means:
3 - Olds
2 - 1972 production
R - Arlington assembly
163698 - last 6 digits of the VIN on the car it came from. That means the BLOCK is not original to the car even though it's an Arlington engine.
Here's what it means:
3 - Olds
2 - 1972 production
R - Arlington assembly
163698 - last 6 digits of the VIN on the car it came from. That means the BLOCK is not original to the car even though it's an Arlington engine.
February 28th, 2012, 08:19 PM
#9
JC
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: So Florida
Posts: 1,069
OK...got it. Yes I use the Macro button all the time, none of these pics will come out without it. Ive fooled around with turning off flash and using back lighting in other settings, but forgot about that with these engine pics. Good idea, I will fool around with that.
SO bottom line.
--Engine block is a 72', but not original.
--Ga Heads are also 72', unknown whether original or not. (how to find out?)
--Transmission- 72' THM400
--Rearend - Olds 2:56 rear, unknown if original or not (these gears will not be in this car
this time next year! thinking 3:23 or so.)
I think I got that hardened seats "A" thing off wildaboutcars site.
But I might be confusing A with "Ga".
Thx for all the help Alan!
SO bottom line.
--Engine block is a 72', but not original.
--Ga Heads are also 72', unknown whether original or not. (how to find out?)
--Transmission- 72' THM400
--Rearend - Olds 2:56 rear, unknown if original or not (these gears will not be in this car
this time next year! thinking 3:23 or so.)
I think I got that hardened seats "A" thing off wildaboutcars site.
But I might be confusing A with "Ga".
Thx for all the help Alan!
Last edited by JCMC64; February 29th, 2012 at 12:02 AM.
February 28th, 2012, 09:05 PM
#11
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 473
Actually, looking at the post from 10:36, if those are your heads then yes they are Ga. And Ga are the same as G, hardened valve seats, deeper springs, valve rotators and such. I like G/Ga heads
February 28th, 2012, 09:40 PM
#12
Just an Olds Guy
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
SO bottom line.
--Engine block is a 71', but not original.
--G Heads are also 71', unknown whether original or not. (how to find out?)
--Transmission- 72' THM400
--Rearend - Olds 2:56 rear, unknown if original or not (these gears will not be in this car
this time next year! thinking 3:23 or so.)
I think I got that hardened seals "A" thing off wildaboutcars site.
But I might be confusing A with "Ga".
Thx for all the help Alan!
--Engine block is a 71', but not original.
--G Heads are also 71', unknown whether original or not. (how to find out?)
--Transmission- 72' THM400
--Rearend - Olds 2:56 rear, unknown if original or not (these gears will not be in this car
this time next year! thinking 3:23 or so.)
I think I got that hardened seals "A" thing off wildaboutcars site.
But I might be confusing A with "Ga".
Thx for all the help Alan!
After looking really close at that pic and comparing it to this one, it looks like you definitely have GA heads. And those came out in 72.
So what it looks like to me is that someone did a total transplant of a 72 455 / 72 TH400 into your car. If you are changing out the gears from 2:56 (which I would in a heartbeat), I'd suggest you look at 3:42's for your gear option. I have a set I'd sell if you want them when the time comes around. They are 10 bolt so they will slide into your carrier with no problem.
February 29th, 2012, 12:01 AM
#13
JC
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: So Florida
Posts: 1,069
Oops...Yeah, I meant that! 
You explained it in post 11:01. Just got lost in transcribing all the info. I will edit that post to 72'.
I thought Ga heads had A next to G. Now I get it! Your last pic helped clarify.
Its below and to the right. That is mine exactly. Thx.
Yep, makes sense now, 72' THM400, 72 block and head. It probably had a 350 in it, and someone wanted HiPo motor in it instead. But then left rear gears alone....??
And yes, would definitely be interested in those gears. Will PM you.
THX Vega, more good to know stuff. Now that the decoding is done, after 3-4 days of elbow grease and wrenching, I will look up the particulars on 72' 455\THM400\GA heads.
Man this was a ridiculously tedious, and sweat inducing project to get these codes all right. Many coats of engine paint sure didnt help.
You explained it in post 11:01. Just got lost in transcribing all the info. I will edit that post to 72'. I thought Ga heads had A next to G. Now I get it! Your last pic helped clarify.
Its below and to the right. That is mine exactly. Thx.
So what it looks like to me is that someone did a total transplant of a 72 455 / 72 TH400 into your car. If you are changing out the gears from 2:56 (which I would in a heartbeat), I'd suggest you look at 3:42's for your gear option. I have a set I'd sell if you want them when the time comes around. They are 10 bolt so they will slide into your carrier with no problem.
And yes, would definitely be interested in those gears. Will PM you.
THX Vega, more good to know stuff. Now that the decoding is done, after 3-4 days of elbow grease and wrenching, I will look up the particulars on 72' 455\THM400\GA heads.
Man this was a ridiculously tedious, and sweat inducing project to get these codes all right. Many coats of engine paint sure didnt help.
February 29th, 2012, 02:13 AM
#14
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 473
No problem
Personally i really like the G and Ga heads, they have deep springs (for valve rotators) that other heads dont have, which allow you to run bigger springs and thus higher lift cams. They also have factory hardened valve seats which allow you to run modern pump gas, and they dont flow too bad either (like J heads). Theyre about the perfect mix of modern practice, economy, and performance in my oppinion. Very easy heads to get a good street machine and save a few bucks on machine work. Good score
just sold a set of Ga heads today, almost regretting it now haha
Personally i really like the G and Ga heads, they have deep springs (for valve rotators) that other heads dont have, which allow you to run bigger springs and thus higher lift cams. They also have factory hardened valve seats which allow you to run modern pump gas, and they dont flow too bad either (like J heads). Theyre about the perfect mix of modern practice, economy, and performance in my oppinion. Very easy heads to get a good street machine and save a few bucks on machine work. Good score
just sold a set of Ga heads today, almost regretting it now haha
February 29th, 2012, 04:20 AM
#15
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Erie,PA
Posts: 3,814
Yes,it looks like someone was able to get a 72 455,with the TH400,from a U-code 72 Cutlass or 442,and installed it into your 71 Cutlass.
Your Cutlass and the car that the engine came from,were both built at the Arlington,Texas plant.That is what the "R" in teh VIN designates.
Your Cutlass and the car that the engine came from,were both built at the Arlington,Texas plant.That is what the "R" in teh VIN designates.
March 12th, 2012, 03:34 AM
#16
JC
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: So Florida
Posts: 1,069
Wanted to update the specifics of this 455 rebuild as I know them from my other thread--
Again, some of below techie #s are beyond me.
Top 025 Ring gap
sec 025
Piston to bore .002
deck 013
rods 0025 oil cl
mains 003.
In deciphering the engine rebuild kit paperwork that came with the car, it looks like the engine has following internals (remember, Im no expert in this area):
--Keith Black 030 Pistons - KB132-030
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/UEM-KB132-030/
--Clevite Cam, Main and Rod bearings
--Possibly Clevite or Hastings Rings (according to "616 030" part number)
--Monedello BB intake\ pan Gasket
--Melling HV oil pump
--SA gear Timing set
The only info I got on the Cam off the P.O. is that he asked original owner who did rebuild and he said cam is "3 times over stock". I said that doesnt really help much. But that is all he could get. I will post video this week of engine running. It definitely has a hotter cam in it. But it sucks I cant get any more info than this. And believe me, I tried.
Again, some of below techie #s are beyond me.
Top 025 Ring gap
sec 025
Piston to bore .002
deck 013
rods 0025 oil cl
mains 003.
In deciphering the engine rebuild kit paperwork that came with the car, it looks like the engine has following internals (remember, Im no expert in this area):
--Keith Black 030 Pistons - KB132-030
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/UEM-KB132-030/
--Clevite Cam, Main and Rod bearings
--Possibly Clevite or Hastings Rings (according to "616 030" part number)
--Monedello BB intake\ pan Gasket
--Melling HV oil pump
--SA gear Timing set
The only info I got on the Cam off the P.O. is that he asked original owner who did rebuild and he said cam is "3 times over stock". I said that doesnt really help much. But that is all he could get. I will post video this week of engine running. It definitely has a hotter cam in it. But it sucks I cant get any more info than this. And believe me, I tried.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
virtualwsp
Brakes/Hydraulic Systems
1
June 13th, 2012 02:00 PM
