1965olds442

Okay so I have acquired a 1965 Oldsmobile cutlass 442 4 speed sport coupe post car that i am in love with. It is my prized possession, A couple of months ago i pulled the original 400 to rebuild it. the car only had 52,000 original miles and didn't need bored out. It just sat in my back yard for 25 years. I had the crank turned 10/10 at the machine shop and got .10 undersize bearings both main and rod, along with new cam, lifters, push rods, timing chain, timing gears, a new standard size oil pump with pick up tube. i got the motor back in the car and was working 100% perfect for about 2 months. then trouble hit.

i first noticed when looking under the hood oil was dripping from the bottom of the hood, the oil was coming up the fill tube and also accumulated on the intake. i knew that was new, because it has never done that before. I instantly think PCV is not venting like it should and too much crank case pressure, or maybe blow by through the cylinder walls. i check spark plugs because i know that if it was blow by they would be the first victim to the oil and more and likely fowl out. they looked fine. i was also looking to see if the car was smoking, it wasn't. It then while running started to make this awful screech sound, i instantly shut it down and knew it wasn't good. i spent the last week pulling the motor back out and got it torn down. i found that #8 rod bearing spun and egged out the crank..why? i still don't know why the oil started coming up the fill tube though, maybe the pump decide to quit and lost all oil pressure? I'm just running in circle looking for answers, i need my car and its the only one i have. I either need to have my crank welded up and taken back to 10/10 or find a whole new crank. the casting number is the same for the BB 400 and the BB 425 and is #384722. all the other bearing look fine even the mains, it just absolutely destroyed #8..i just want to know what could cause this, those cranks are not cheap and neither is the welding service. Could someone who know more about this than me please give some idea on what i can do to fix this and keep it some what cheap at the same time? I had a guy tell me to put a BBC in it. to hell with that idea. i want original rocket power, not to destroy the authenticity. All my money went into the first rebuild and it crushed me when it went bad. but i will not give up on this car, i am open mined to any thoughts. thank you guys so much.

Adam - Weatherford TX

1965olds442

Okay so I have acquired a 1965 Oldsmobile cutlass 442 4 speed sport coupe post car that i am in love with. It is my prized possession, A couple of months ago i pulled the original 400 to rebuild it. the car only had 52,000 original miles and didn't need bored out. It just sat in my back yard for 25 years. I had the crank turned 10/10 at the machine shop and got .10 undersize bearings both main and rod, along with new cam, lifters, push rods, timing chain, timing gears, a new standard size oil pump with pick up tube. i got the motor back in the car and was working 100% perfect for about 2 months. then trouble hit.

i first noticed when looking under the hood oil was dripping from the bottom of the hood, the oil was coming up the fill tube and also accumulated on the intake. i knew that was new, because it has never done that before. I instantly think PCV is not venting like it should and too much crank case pressure, or maybe blow by through the cylinder walls. i check spark plugs because i know that if it was blow by they would be the first victim to the oil and more and likely fowl out. they looked fine. i was also looking to see if the car was smoking, it wasn't. It then while running started to make this awful screech sound, i instantly shut it down and knew it wasn't good. i spent the last week pulling the motor back out and got it torn down. i found that #8 rod bearing spun and egged out the crank..why? i still don't know why the oil started coming up the fill tube though, maybe the pump decide to quit and lost all oil pressure? I'm just running in circle looking for answers, i need my car and its the only one i have. I either need to have my crank welded up and taken back to 10/10 or find a whole new crank. the casting number is the same for the BB 400 and the BB 425 and is #384722. all the other bearing look fine even the mains, it just absolutely destroyed #8..i just want to know what could cause this, those cranks are not cheap and neither is the welding service. Could someone who know more about this than me please give some idea on what i can do to fix this and keep it some what cheap at the same time? I had a guy tell me to put a BBC in it. to hell with that idea. i want original rocket power, not to destroy the authenticity. All my money went into the first rebuild and it crushed me when it went bad. but i will not give up on this car, i am open mined to any thoughts. thank you guys so much.

Adam - Weatherford TX

cutlassgal

That sucks! Hopefully some of the knowledgable guys will chime in with some answers for you soon.

Rickman48

That particular crank, drilled for the pilot bearing, is almost impossible to find!
I just found one after 2 years of looking! $500 +!!

Get yours welded, and #8 rod rebuilt!
How many rpm had you been turning your motor?
Sounds like it ran out of oil at a high rpm to create that damage! 5000 max!!
Were the rings broken in? Usually blow-by causes the oil-out-the-breather thing - check for broken rings, too!
You also said it wasn't bored - what was the piston to wall clearance?
What was it after honing?
Too much can cause piston "flutter" and broken rings!

oldcutlass

x2, hope everything works out for you!

1965olds442

the motor was pushed only a couple of times, but never went into 5000 even though the cam say "powers through 1500-6500 rpm" i didn't want to risk messing thing up before everything broke in, and the rings i made sure all the openings were facing different directions and none broken, the man i did business with at the machine shop told me it didn't need bored and that the rings would make clearance, it had no lip worn, maybe thats where i messed up! Probably should of had it bored.. what do you think about about a remanufactured crank? like this one.. http://www.cleggengine.com/65-67-old...shaft-kit.html

Rickman48

Guess you didn't see the 'A/T' after the part#!
Also, I believe the '65 is a one year only crank, due to the stroke.
Drilling-out the pilot bushing is around $100, if you can find someone to do it!
Many make that mistake, and one part # tells me they did, too!
"Rings would make clearance" - how?? Never heard that one!
Cylinders must be at least honed, so the rings can seat - was that done??
I'd find a machine shop that wasn't lazy, and have them check it out, might be able to hone and use original pistons.

firefrost gold

You go dude . No really go and get some pictures of that thing.

droptopron

Did you assemble the engine or the machine shop? Just grabbing at straws but maybe thread lock wasn't used on #8 and the nuts backed off a bit?

1965olds442

here ya go! still being restored but getting there

1965olds442

ah i see that now. and yes it is only year, probably why its so rare. and yes they were honed here is a picture plus more

1965olds442

here is what the rod bearing looked liked.

boondocker

Did you check the bearing clearances when building?

1965olds442

all i knew to do with the bearings was get the crank turned 10/10 and then get .10 undersize bearing, applied engine assembly lube and tork them, i know the bearings and crank should always have a thin film of oil in between them, i just trusted the shop that they turned it right, but then again i am still fairly new to this and learning a ton. there are many tricks to this trade

Oldsmaniac

It is always a good idea to have the big end of the conn rods trued. It is also adviseable to have the crank checked for straightness. X2 on checking the bearing clearances with plastigauge. Assembly lube is recommended as well as brake-in oil and then make sure oil is used with ZINC. I do not think the 400 crank is a one year only...too lazy to check on that. Get a price on repairing your crank.

Oldsmaniac

1st big mistake.....

bigD

i'm guessing inadequate clearance. sometimes you can get by without checking the bearing clearances but it usually will bite ya in the ***!
you mentioned that it's the same crank as the 425, that was a 3 yr run. they are out there but if you have access to a good crank shop that might be the cheapest way to go.

1965olds442

the rods were polished out and i will look into finding another shop. perferably one that speacializes on oldsmobile. where can we find one of those? the 65 400 crank is a One year only 442 motor. The lifter cam angle bank was 45 degrees and changed to 39 degrees in 1966 other 400s are different. and thanks for the advise, i think repairing it is the way to go.

bigD

plastiguage sucks! use micrometers and get the true readings. when you get your replacement rod install the bearing in it, torque the cap and measure the bore of the bearing. use that number to determine the "target" for the final dimension on the crank journal and have the journal ground to that dimension.

bigD

the crankshaft has nothing to do with the lifter bank angle...

Oldsmaniac

The 65 400, 66 400 and 67 400 as well as all year 425's used the SAME crankshaft. There is a difference only in whether it is a stick or auto trans crank. Cam angle has NOTHING to do with crankshaft.

Oldsmaniac

Well it is not the best method but a useful tool in checking the work of the machine shop. Not everyone needs to purchase an expensive set of micrometers for checking. A good machine shop will machine the parts so everything falls within specs. If they do their job all will be well. My opinion only....

1965olds442

i worded that wrong.. i meant to say the 65 400 is the one year motor, not the crank, and every other BBO crank I've came across at swap meets have different casting #'s and i always heard put back what was in it if your not sure. bottom line i will just have my crank repaired

1965olds442

it was a shop thats been around since the 60's, that had a great reputation, i trusted their work, i guess i shouldn't of and should have bought expensive tools instead..I'm too young for this kind of money! i should of just sold the car to some old retired man and got a pos kia. man this is upsetting

cutlassefi

Thank you!! If you have an out of round journal or rod plastigage won't necessarily pick that up.
And you don't necessarily need an "Olds" shop, just one that does quality work. Take everything to them, have them check it and tell you ON PAPER what your bearing clearances are, then you can assemble it yourself.

Like the saying goes "if you didn't have enough money to do it right the first time where are you going to find the money to do it right the second time".

boondocker

Don't get discouraged, you've come a long way for a 17 year old...I'm impressed. Most times in retrospec the journey is the most rewarding...think of all you've learned.

1965olds442

I know that all you guys are a huge help, and that I've gotten more info off this forum than i have been able to get from shops. you guys are awesome and gave me a better idea of what i am looking at now.

1965olds442

Well thank you, I don't think I could ever get enough courage to sell that car anyways.haha I will get it done, and keep the OLDS alive, you are right i can't quit now.

bigD

indeed, hang in there! you have a car that a lot of people would love to have... granted there has been a hiccup along the way but it could have been a lot worse!

the shop you used is probably a fine reputable shop unfortunately everybody messes up... it just sucks when its on "our" stuff... go in and talk to them, show them the parts and see what they have to say. hopefully they'll help you get things back in order...

Run to Rund

As stated above, any 425 crank and any 65-7 400 crank will work. Some early cranks used a smaller damper bolt; all later ones used a 3/4" fine thread bolt with 1.125" hex head.
If a rod bearing fell into place easily, without any press fit, the rod needed to be resized or replaced. Definitely replace #8 now. Rods from the above engines will work. I install bearings with the backs dry ad the housing (block or rod) dry. I put assembly lube or cam lube on the face of the bearing.

Rickman48

If this shop is any kind of 'reputable', they should offer some kind of discount to fix things, and assemble the shortblock for 1/2 price!
$200 - 250 for assembly is well worth it, as they now must warrantee it!!

rocketraider

Dang, youngun- no need to go it alone. DFW area has a lot of Olds guys who can and are willing to help you. Several of them are on here regularly.

You have my utmost respect for not falling into the BBC trap.

Did you plastigage the bearing clearances when you set the crank? Possibly you already had some issues with the #8 cap that weren't apparent during assembly? You did match up the rod to its original bearing cap? Rods were resized correctly?

Lot of possibilities.

Still strange that it forced oil out the fill tube. One spun bearing shouldn't have created enough blockage to do that. Only thing I can think is that maybe the galley plug in the timing chain area fell out and all that oil sprayed up the fill tube. That could also have created a low oil pressure situation and starved the #8 rod which would be unusual, because the 7 & 8 rod bearings are among the first areas to get oil.

Keep us posted, and do not subject your Olds to the indignity of a frigging Chevrolet engine. No sense making a mongrel out of it.

67 Cutlass Freak

I also comend you for sticking with the Olds. If it was me, I would start fresh. Absolutely tear that engine completely apart and have it boiled out. You've got a ton of metal shavings throughout the entire oiling system. Minute particles are probably even in your lifters. Have everything measured again and check for cracks. One possability for the oil blow by, might be a blown head gasket or a crack, maybe even in the head. Exhaust gasses may have pressurized the crankcase. Even with this kind of low mileage "52,000", You might want to consider a stroker kit. The most common Olds crank failure is too tight of clearances. Find a reputable Olds specialist, and save your money.

ah64pilot

So is the general consensus that this IS detonation induced?

LOL! I'm kidding! Don't be mad, I had to...

ah64pilot

Too soon?

Lady72nRob71

Welcome Adam!
I merged your two threads together, as they were causing confusion and duplicate responses.
I hope you get this running soon - be patient and learn as you go - LOTs to learn though!
You are lucky. When I was 17, all I had was a 5hp go-kart. You have a 442!

stan 65 cutlass

way to go kid,at least your building the right year, these guys here will keep you on track but keep looking around too, heres a website thats 65 only, they have good advise as well you cant have too much advise unless its wrong advise.

http://ultra-hi-comp.proboards.com/index.cgi

bigD

as i sit here and think about it the only thing you'd need in order to measure both the ron and main journals, as well as bearing bore would be a 2"-3" micrometer and a 2"-3" snap guage.

you don't have to buy the high end stuff, fowler makes good tools at reasonable prices, if you spent a few extra dollars and got a 2" standard to verify the adjustment on the mic you'd always know that the readings that YOU took were dead on.

that my friend would be money well spent! the problem with plastiguage is that it only tells you what the clearance is at one spot on that particular journal, depending on the equipment and the crankgrinders experience or attitude that particular day you have no idea how concentric your crank journals or rod or main bores are...

1965olds442

crank looks really nice.

1965olds442

where the bearing spun