ddx77

ah64pilot

Nah man...the OIL is supposed to be there

It's that broken lifter that may be a problem, lol! Holy Crap man! I can see how it was still running as the plunger and bottom of the lifter are still under the pushrod...BUT...how on earth did the "floating" top of the lifter not make a hellatious noise?

I'd say it's time for a new cam my friend...you can't change one lifter without flattening that cam lobe. Sorry to tell you

ddx77

lol

Yeah, there was no noise, before I took it apart she was running great!

thanks for the response

jensenracing77

i have changed one lifter before and got away with it. it was a stock 307 engine from a 98 so maybe it didn't have enough spring pressure on it to hurt it? i know of other people that have done it also. i can't say it is the right way to go but i know people do it.

ddx77

Thanks.

I spoke to my mechanic and he said he had never heard of anything like that. Funny thing is that I drove it to his shop a few times with it running in front of him and he never heard anything either.

Well thanks for the repsonses, I will have to see what I do next.

ah64pilot

You can try to change one lifter and it may get you down the road a few months, and you may never notice a flat cam lobe...until you run the engine up into the upper RPM's. So technically, yes, it can be done...but with half the work already done to get to the cam, it can't hurt to do it the right way.

ddx77

Yeah a cam and lifters aren't going to cost much, I wouldnt do just one. Just aggrevating to find something like that, but I guess thats what this hobby is all about.

oldcutlass

Wow been along time since I saw that happen! You may be able to just run a new lifter if it didn't gall the poop out of it.

ah64pilot

No...I wouldn't. I had a whole thesis on what happens during cam break in and why you shouldn't put a new lifter on an old cam, but I lost it because my blackberry sucks. I'm not typing it again...just don't follow this advise.

oldcutlass

It all depends on what his budget is, when the motor was rebuilt, and if there was any damage done to the cam or block? I've changed single lifters up to a full set on an old cam in the past without any ramafications on non-performance motors and got another 50-60k out of them. I mean were talking concave and having to pry them out of there type lifters. That was after digging them out from under inches of crud!

It is not bad advice at all! Whats he got to lose, a cam that your suggesting he change now! He just needs to run a good oil in there for 1 oil change!

MDchanic

You can usually replace a bad lifter in a stock-type motor AS LONG AS you replace it with a NEW lifter, that has not been broken in with a cam already.

It MAY not work, but there's a decent chance that it will.

- Eric

ah64pilot

I guess I'm OCD when it comes to my stuff. I don't take shortcuts so to ME its worth $150 - $200 to put a new cam in.

I guess it all depends on your experience, I've got a 455 sitting in my garage with a replaced lifter. Symptom: won't rev past 4000 rpm. Problem: 2 flat cam lobes Reason: 15k miles ago #5 cylinder stuck lifters were replaced.

oldcutlass

Perhaps the stuck lifters wiped your cam prior to replacing, like I said, alot of variables! It's more like $350 with gaskets and new oil, he might be able to get away $50 including an oil change!

ddx77

Guys, thank you very much for all the feedback!

gearheads78

Wow I don't think I have ever seen that before. If it was me and its a stock cam I would take my chances with 1 new lifter and pour in a bottle of EOS for good measure. I have been lucky a few times replacing 1 or two lifters. If you plan of not ever going through the motor any time then stick a cam in it to be sure.

Jaybird

Drew: Great Pic! It makes me want to take off my left valve cover tomorrow. My spare engine is almost rebuilt, but I kind of want to take a peek at the noisy left side of my current engine. I believe that I can force myself to wait a week or two to see under the intake manifold.

Jaybird

ddx77

Can I access the bottom of the lifters if I remove that cover in the middle of the valley?

citcapp

Yes you can, I have use a bent screw drive to remove the lifter from the cam. As long as the lifter bottom is not splayed out it should pop right out

ddx77

Thank you!

costpenn

I am the owner/GM of an engine parts company in Dallas that sells over 100,000 lifters a month - have seen all kinds of tappet failures throughout the years - never seen one do that!!!

ddx77

Welcome to my world...

I just replaced and engine is my 2007 GMC Envoy Denali too that at 75000 miles had a bad rod bearing. 6 different mechanics also told me "never seen one do that"

gearheads78

I work in Chevrolet service and see that every now and then but its usually a Camaro or Corvette that has been run hard.

oldcutlass

I want to know what Drew did to fix it???

ddx77

Ordered new lifters today, I am going to replace them all for now.

The old lifters came out with little to no effort and maybe I am wrong but I am thinking thats a good sign.

If I have problems afterwards and end up having to go back in and change the cam and lifters again I will.

Again, I appreciate all the help!

MDchanic

To the extent that problems with new lifters not breaking in properly on used cams is a matter of chance, you have just made your chances of failure with this repair sixteen times worse.

Just change the bad one, OR change the cam as well.

- Eric

Tony72Cutlass'S'

I'm curious, for engine parts, did you buy the OEM stuff, and if that is the case, what is OEM stuff? (As in what company is a good reference for engine parts)

I've been liesurly reading articles that engine parts now-a-days aren't made with the same metals, materials and processes as they were maybe 20 or 30 years ago. So you can't really throw an "out of the box" part into your car without measuring, checking, then perhaps measuring again.

Thanks, cheers,

Tony

gearheads78

This is 100% what I would not do unless you are replaceing the cam. Chances are a little bit in your favor doing 1 but you are multipling your chance of failure x 16. Don't do it!!!

Just noticed you said the same thing

oldcutlass

I agree, I would just change the 1!!!!!

But I would also make sure the lifter hole did not gaul and I would take a good look at the cam lobe. I also would make sure that the one pushrod is straight and has no damage on either end. Also look at the rocker arm to insure there was no damage done there also!

ddx77

Changed my mind and going with my gut feeling, I will post if what some of you said might happen and take my "we told you so's" like a man. But the car was running awesome before I just so happened to notice the top of the lifter hanging out, so I am replacing all the lifters and gonna see what happens. That's my final decision

I will check the other components as well.

Thanks again for the help and I do appreciate and respect everyone's experiences and opinions.

I will repost when she's back together.

Rickman48

In over 40 years as a mechanic from 4-cyl beaters to Top Alcohol dragsters, I've never seen a lifter do that!!
That being said, a new lifter will seat on a used cam, provided the lobe is in good shape - and I'd only replace the broken one, after a close look at that lobe!
I'd be inspecting/measuring/magnafluxing that lifter bore - the only reason I can imagine this could happen would be a cracked bore that let the lifter rock, BADLY!
Unless the small-end of the lobe is desinagrating enough to let the lifter **** in the bottom of the bore!
Just popping a lifter back in would be like putting a pin back in a dud grenade that didn't go off the first time, without finding a cause!
Bad lifter isn't the answer, to me!

SBORule

If the lifter bore doesn't show any signs of damage, I would just replace the bad lifter.

If you already bought a set of new lifters, replace them all.

You can use new lifters on used cams.

You can't use used lifters on a new cam.

And when re-using used lifters on a cam they were used on, be sure each lifter goes back into the same lifter bore it came out of. Getting them mixed up will cause cam lobes to go flat.

I'm on my third set of lifters on the same 30 plus year old Crane Fireball camshaft in my hotrod.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

What company are you guys buying your lifters from? Does GM still make them?

Cheers,

Tony

ddx77

My car has a Comp Cam in it, so I bought Comp Lifters from Summit.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Cool, thanks!

What would you buy if your car was bone stock? (Mine is currently 72 350 never rebuilt)

I'm building my "box full of extra, Just-in-case" parts in the trunk and i figure why not throw a lifter into the mix.

Cheers,

Tony

66ninetyeightls

You should be able to go to any decent auto parts store and order stock replacement lifters.

oldcutlass

Lifters are not something the extra parts box needs to contain. Normally you buy them in a set of 8 or 16. Save the room in your trunk for beer and things neccessary for a road repair!

Tony72Cutlass'S'

The only beer i drink warm is PBR, and there's already a case of 12 next to my spare tire and the road signs i picked up off the beaten path.

Good times nonetheless!

Thanks for the feedback, good to know,

cheers,

Tony

ddx77

I kept meaning to post these and forget, but here are some close ups of the broken lifter, the end actually looks close to new in my opinion.

oldcutlass

Drew, I think what happened is your lifter collapsed and ultimately beat itself to death internally! I really do think that swapping the one will fix your problem! Like I said earlier, double check the two pushrods on that cylinder, the rocker assy's for that cylinder, the lifter bore, and cam lobe!

7D2455

Back when my '72 had a 307 in it we put a whole new set of lifters in it with the old original cam and ran it with no extra additives, just motor oil, and we had no problems, no noises, and no driveability issues. I put about 25,000 miles on that motor and it always ran great. I'm not saying I'd do that again knowing what I know now, but at the time I didnt know any better and it worked out fine, maybe it was just luck.