Cool Fuel Tips
July 5th, 2011, 10:05 PM
#1
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Cool Fuel Tips
Has anyone ever heard of these ideas to keep the fuel line cool for a 455?
1. Put wooden clothes-pins along the line leading to the carb to act like a heat-sync.
2. Wrap the fuel line with the same fabric used to wrap headers.
3. Add an additional filter between the pump and the carb, like some 442's came equipped with.
1. Put wooden clothes-pins along the line leading to the carb to act like a heat-sync.
2. Wrap the fuel line with the same fabric used to wrap headers.
3. Add an additional filter between the pump and the carb, like some 442's came equipped with.
July 6th, 2011, 03:33 AM
#2
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No, no, and no.
But what do I know?
The first one sounds about as effective as putting a piece of stainless steel in your gas tank to increase your fuel mileage. Wood can't act as a heat sink, since it is lousy at absorbing heat. That has to be one of the stupidest things I've heard lately (not you, the idea).
The second one could help.
The third one seems more or less pointless in the heat department.
What's wrong with using a factory "return-line" fuel pump, which I think all '71's were equipped with anyway? It keeps the fuel moving, so it stays cooler, and should eliminate the possibility of vapor lock.
- Eric
But what do I know?
The first one sounds about as effective as putting a piece of stainless steel in your gas tank to increase your fuel mileage. Wood can't act as a heat sink, since it is lousy at absorbing heat. That has to be one of the stupidest things I've heard lately (not you, the idea).
The second one could help.
The third one seems more or less pointless in the heat department.
What's wrong with using a factory "return-line" fuel pump, which I think all '71's were equipped with anyway? It keeps the fuel moving, so it stays cooler, and should eliminate the possibility of vapor lock.
- Eric
July 6th, 2011, 06:56 AM
#3
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While you're at it, why not get those magnets that go on the fuel line and increase mileage and HP? 
Seriously, the fuel return line as used on all high perf and A/C cars is the best defense against hot fuel. Wrapping the fuel line in aluminum foil can help, but eventually even the foil will reach engine temperature. A cool can full of ice is the proven drag racer's solution.
Seriously, the fuel return line as used on all high perf and A/C cars is the best defense against hot fuel. Wrapping the fuel line in aluminum foil can help, but eventually even the foil will reach engine temperature. A cool can full of ice is the proven drag racer's solution.
July 6th, 2011, 09:57 PM
#5
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With the exception of #2, I thought they sounded silly too, but it never hurts to ask. 
The Q-jet seems to be running out of gas, so it's either ready to be rebuilt, or there's vapor lock. It doesn't seem to get gas until you work the accelerator pump by hand. 
And I would wear a tinfoil hat with clothespins if it would make my car run right now.
The Q-jet seems to be running out of gas, so it's either ready to be rebuilt, or there's vapor lock. It doesn't seem to get gas until you work the accelerator pump by hand. And I would wear a tinfoil hat with clothespins if it would make my car run right now.
July 7th, 2011, 04:58 AM
#6
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Well now, it wouldn't be silly if the clothespins were made out of metal, which has a very high thermal conductivity. They would act similarly to fins on a radiator. Do they make metal clothespins?
Of course, maybe the idea is that you actually attach wet clothes to the wooden clothespins. The evaporation of the water from the clothes would draw away heat in the same way that evaporation of the sweat on your skin cools you down on a hot day.
So the clothespin idea isn't COMPLETELY dumb. It may be 99.99% dumb, but it's not 100.00% dumb.
Of course, maybe the idea is that you actually attach wet clothes to the wooden clothespins. The evaporation of the water from the clothes would draw away heat in the same way that evaporation of the sweat on your skin cools you down on a hot day.
So the clothespin idea isn't COMPLETELY dumb. It may be 99.99% dumb, but it's not 100.00% dumb.
July 7th, 2011, 06:54 AM
#8
I knew a guy with a 62 t-bird who used clothes pins on his fuel line. It seemed to sit a little too close to the exhaust and would start vapor locking on long trips. He would use 2 or 3 clothes pins on the line and put the back sides against the engine. It helped by moving the fuel line away from the engine by a few inches.
Its not a cure all, but in a pinch will help.
Its not a cure all, but in a pinch will help.
July 7th, 2011, 07:48 AM
#10
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While you're at it, why not get those magnets that go on the fuel line and increase mileage and HP?
Seriously, the fuel return line as used on all high perf and A/C cars is the best defense against hot fuel. Wrapping the fuel line in aluminum foil can help, but eventually even the foil will reach engine temperature. A cool can full of ice is the proven drag racer's solution.
Seriously, the fuel return line as used on all high perf and A/C cars is the best defense against hot fuel. Wrapping the fuel line in aluminum foil can help, but eventually even the foil will reach engine temperature. A cool can full of ice is the proven drag racer's solution.
How about something like an auxillary transmission cooler?
A few hardware store aluminum hold downs to the frame would also act as a decent heat sink.
I have seen wooden clothespins on a number of cars, carbureted vehicles.
Looks less and less stupid all of the time. Wood is a poor heat insulator.
Never liked pushing a car, even less in 110 degree heat.
Last edited by Warhead; July 7th, 2011 at 08:02 AM.
July 7th, 2011, 07:53 AM
#11
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With the exception of #2, I thought they sounded silly too, but it never hurts to ask. The Q-jet seems to be running out of gas, so it's either ready to be rebuilt, or there's vapor lock. It doesn't seem to get gas until you work the accelerator pump by hand. And I would wear a tinfoil hat with clothespins if it would make my car run right now.
The Q-jet seems to be running out of gas, so it's either ready to be rebuilt, or there's vapor lock. It doesn't seem to get gas until you work the accelerator pump by hand. And I would wear a tinfoil hat with clothespins if it would make my car run right now.Steve
July 7th, 2011, 08:50 AM
#12
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I don't think clothes pins woud give any real cooling or insulating benefit, with the exception of when you use the clothes pins to hold the fuel line further away from hot objects.
I also don't think that putting any kind of cooling material like aluminum on the fuel line would help much. Heat travels from hot to cold, and in this case the fuel would be cooler than the hot engine.
No expert here, but I think the clothes line idea is to restrict the fuel flow and get a higher pressure in the fuel line between the pump and the carb. Pressure and temperature affect the solid-liquid-gas state of any material. If temperature goes up, you can increase the pressure to prevent vaporization.
I suppose if your pump is on it's last leg, it won't be producing the pressure those Olds engineers wanted and the clothes pin thing could only make it harder for the pump to deliver fuel.
-Rich
I also don't think that putting any kind of cooling material like aluminum on the fuel line would help much. Heat travels from hot to cold, and in this case the fuel would be cooler than the hot engine.
No expert here, but I think the clothes line idea is to restrict the fuel flow and get a higher pressure in the fuel line between the pump and the carb. Pressure and temperature affect the solid-liquid-gas state of any material. If temperature goes up, you can increase the pressure to prevent vaporization.
I suppose if your pump is on it's last leg, it won't be producing the pressure those Olds engineers wanted and the clothes pin thing could only make it harder for the pump to deliver fuel.
-Rich
July 7th, 2011, 10:35 AM
#13
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Perhaps the purpose of the clothespins is not to conduct heat themselves or to constrict the fuel line, but rather to act as a clamp to hold whatever the fuel line is wrapped with more tightly to the line to increase heat transfer efficiency. If you wrap the line with, say, aluminum foil to draw heat away from it, but that foil is only loosely wrapped around the line, it won't be very effective because there will be air gaps between the line and the foil, and air is a good thermal insulator.
July 7th, 2011, 10:52 AM
#14
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I don't think clothes pins woud give any real cooling or insulating benefit, with the exception of when you use the clothes pins to hold the fuel line further away from hot objects.
No expert here, but I think the clothes line idea is to restrict the fuel flow and get a higher pressure in the fuel line between the pump and the carb. Pressure and temperature affect the solid-liquid-gas state of any material. If temperature goes up, you can increase the pressure to prevent vaporization.
-Rich
No expert here, but I think the clothes line idea is to restrict the fuel flow and get a higher pressure in the fuel line between the pump and the carb. Pressure and temperature affect the solid-liquid-gas state of any material. If temperature goes up, you can increase the pressure to prevent vaporization.
-Rich
Never seen that one.
Like I said, a far more effective way would be an aluminum clip to the frame would act as a heat sink, or like Joe said, return line to tank. Carb spacer.
July 7th, 2011, 11:54 AM
#15
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No expert here, but I think the clothes line idea is to restrict the fuel flow and get a higher pressure in the fuel line between the pump and the carb. Pressure and temperature affect the solid-liquid-gas state of any material. If temperature goes up, you can increase the pressure to prevent vaporization.
Either way, you would be simply wrong.
Decreasing the diameter of the fuel line will restrict the flow and decrease the pressure at the carb (though the pump will see a slightly higher pressure, but what would that help?).
If you wanted to raise the pressure high enough to change the boiling point of the fuel, you would need to increase it high enough that it would also overcome the action of the needle and seat and flood the carburetor.
I'm still not clear on why the OP wanted to try to decrease his fuel temperature, but that's another story.
- Eric
note: lots of interruptions while I wrote this - there are probably 20 posts between this one and the one I'm quoting by now...
Last edited by MDchanic; July 7th, 2011 at 11:58 AM.
July 7th, 2011, 01:57 PM
#16
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LOL, hold on. I am in no way endorsing the use of clothes pins here! 
The one thing I hate about emails, texts, etc. is there is too much room for interpretation on the other side of the screen. Noted, I will have to be more careful about this in the future.
"
"
-Too funny. Thanks for the response... got me thinking more about it.
The one thing I hate about emails, texts, etc. is there is too much room for interpretation on the other side of the screen. Noted, I will have to be more careful about this in the future.
"
If you need clothespins to keep your fuel line away from hot objects, then it's routed wrong."
-Yup, I agree.
"An aluminum heat shield (tin foil is not the best example) can reflect radiant heat away from an object, but is not an insulator. Look under any late-model car and you'll see one between the exhaust system and the body."
-True but we're not talking about super hot exhaust pipes... this is just fuel line between the pump and carb correct? I'm guessing any heat shield for the fuel line would be to reflect radiant energy away from the intake/engine block. It could help somewhat.
"Are you actually saying that you believe that putting clothespins on the steel fuel line between the fuel pump and the carburetor will increase the fuel pressure? Or, are you saying that putting clothes pins on a rubber fuel line that was incorrectly installed between the fuel pump and carburetor, in such a way as to restrict the inside diameter of the fuel line, would increase the fuel pressure?
Either way, you would be simply wrong.
Decreasing the diameter of the fuel line will restrict the flow and decrease the pressure at the carb (though the pump will see a slightly higher pressure, but what would that help?). "
-I didn't say I believed this... I was just speculating what the clothes pin advocates are trying to achieve. And I was thinking rubber hose. From your comments it seems that my fuel line may have been modified. With the clothes pins putting pressure on rubber fuel line I'm thinking it could slightly increase the pressure in the line by restriction and by the spring compression, kind of like an accumulator in a hydraulics system. If this did work it could hold the fuel at higher pressure until it reached the carb. In the float bowl there's typically a vent to handle any vapors that may form there.
"If you wanted to raise the pressure high enough to change the boiling point of the fuel, you would need to increase it high enough that it would also overcome the action of the needle and seat and flood the carburetor."
-I don't know if that's true or not because fuel properties are all over the map with different blends, and I suppose altitude also plays a role here. I can prove nothing, but generally an increase in pressure reduces the chance of vapor forming. Still not advocating clothes pins, just trying to figure out the theory behind this.
"I'm still not clear on why the OP wanted to try to decrease his fuel temperature, but that's another story.
- Eric
note: lots of interruptions while I wrote this - there are probably 20 posts between this one and the one I'm quoting by now...
-Yup, I agree.
"An aluminum heat shield (tin foil is not the best example) can reflect radiant heat away from an object, but is not an insulator. Look under any late-model car and you'll see one between the exhaust system and the body."
-True but we're not talking about super hot exhaust pipes... this is just fuel line between the pump and carb correct? I'm guessing any heat shield for the fuel line would be to reflect radiant energy away from the intake/engine block. It could help somewhat.
"Are you actually saying that you believe that putting clothespins on the steel fuel line between the fuel pump and the carburetor will increase the fuel pressure? Or, are you saying that putting clothes pins on a rubber fuel line that was incorrectly installed between the fuel pump and carburetor, in such a way as to restrict the inside diameter of the fuel line, would increase the fuel pressure?
Either way, you would be simply wrong.
Decreasing the diameter of the fuel line will restrict the flow and decrease the pressure at the carb (though the pump will see a slightly higher pressure, but what would that help?). "
-I didn't say I believed this... I was just speculating what the clothes pin advocates are trying to achieve. And I was thinking rubber hose. From your comments it seems that my fuel line may have been modified. With the clothes pins putting pressure on rubber fuel line I'm thinking it could slightly increase the pressure in the line by restriction and by the spring compression, kind of like an accumulator in a hydraulics system. If this did work it could hold the fuel at higher pressure until it reached the carb. In the float bowl there's typically a vent to handle any vapors that may form there.
"If you wanted to raise the pressure high enough to change the boiling point of the fuel, you would need to increase it high enough that it would also overcome the action of the needle and seat and flood the carburetor."
-I don't know if that's true or not because fuel properties are all over the map with different blends, and I suppose altitude also plays a role here. I can prove nothing, but generally an increase in pressure reduces the chance of vapor forming. Still not advocating clothes pins, just trying to figure out the theory behind this.
"I'm still not clear on why the OP wanted to try to decrease his fuel temperature, but that's another story.
- Eric
note: lots of interruptions while I wrote this - there are probably 20 posts between this one and the one I'm quoting by now...
-Too funny. Thanks for the response... got me thinking more about it.
July 7th, 2011, 02:33 PM
#18
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Richard,
I understand the hydraulic accumulator concept, but I think that the real-world physical characteristics of the fuel pump, rubber fuel line, and needle and seat would not go where you (or the other guys who came up with this) would want to go.
Fuel pump pulse too weak (pressure delivery too even), fuel line compliance too low compared to working pressure, and needle and seat too susceptible to large pressure variations.
You're talking 4-6psi here, and I would bet that hydraulically, that fuel line acts like an iron pipe, which gives you a choice of a big iron pipe, or a narrow iron pipe
.
Also, the needle has to move to the tune of its own drummer (the float), and not be influenced by outside forces, the way a diesel injector nozzle would.
I just wouldn't worry about the whole thing.
- Eric
I understand the hydraulic accumulator concept, but I think that the real-world physical characteristics of the fuel pump, rubber fuel line, and needle and seat would not go where you (or the other guys who came up with this) would want to go.
Fuel pump pulse too weak (pressure delivery too even), fuel line compliance too low compared to working pressure, and needle and seat too susceptible to large pressure variations.
You're talking 4-6psi here, and I would bet that hydraulically, that fuel line acts like an iron pipe, which gives you a choice of a big iron pipe, or a narrow iron pipe
.Also, the needle has to move to the tune of its own drummer (the float), and not be influenced by outside forces, the way a diesel injector nozzle would.
I just wouldn't worry about the whole thing.
- Eric
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