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I am doing research on what I want to do for the engine rebuild for my 71 W30 4 speed. Obviously I want the builder to machine, recondition, or replace everything as well as balancing the rotating assembly. Is there anything beyond that anyone can suggest that would help make the engine last a long time? Years ago I read that there are things that OBBs would benefit from like drilling out oil passages, not sure what else, its been years since I research an engine build. When I had the engine in my other 71 442 rebuilt the guy said it was pushing ~450 hp. I have been reading quite a bit and 450 hp seems a bit high, since all the guy did was step up the cam. Don't get me wrong I am extremely satisfied with that engine build and the car runs strong. It will burn tires through second gear without missing a beat and with the 4.66 gears I think that's saying something, but I've never had it on a dyno. Is 450 hp + achievable without detracting from the value of the car? I would really like to see the engine in the W30 have 500+ hp if possible.
The other side of the coin is, what would happen to the value of my car if I upgraded the engine to include higher compression pistons and a nice stiff cam. I plan to have Cliff at Cliff's High Performance tune the Q-Jet for it and have the engine appear stock. Back in the day there were not very many choices for cams, but from the reading I have done there are a lot more cams available these days. Not to mention custom grinds. I am looking for an engine that is driveable, but has more hp than my other 71 442, which supposedly has 450 hp.
Send it to BTR, Bill Trovato, in Rochester. You will not be disappointed Or purchase his book on trade secrets of BBO survival and high out put builds ( books avail on amazon).
Bottom line is find a machine shop well versed with BBO...A BBC shop may know Chevy but these aint Chevys. A Buick Pontiac Engine guy could have the know how as well.
Internal mods to the ...well the internals will not effect the value of an original car IMO unless the cam and gears are un-street-able.
The other side of the coin is, what would happen to the value of my car if I upgraded the engine to include higher compression pistons and a nice stiff cam.
Since the engine came with ~8.5:1 compression from the factory, you can't do a whole lot to increase performance without increasing the compression ratio above factory spec. And as said above, no one will have any idea what the internal parts are so I see no issues with that affecting the vehicle's value.
Thanks guys! I'm not going to send the engine to NY, but if anyone knows a good BBO builder in Cincinnati please let me know, otherwise I'm considering BES (Bischoff Engine Builders) or Suder Engine Service. Both do great work and have built some impressive motors for the drag strip, but not sure how versed they are with BBOs engines. I wish I could find the guy who did the engine in my other car, but that was 1993. Motor Specialists, they were in Clifton in Cincinnati, but the city took his building, eminent domain, and he never reopened. He loves Oldsmobiles all most as much as me.
I will definitely check out the books by Bill Trovato.
Having trouble finding the books suggested by Bill Trovato. I found Oldsmobile V-8 Engines: How to Build Max Performance by Bill Trovato, but not trade secrets of BBO survival and high out put builds. Do you have links?
Also ask Cliff for cam recommendations. He's one smart cookie. Lots of dyno experience. He knows what works and what doesn't. The best nugget I got from the Trovato book was not to modify the oiling system on an Olds 455. It's fine just the way it is. Good luck.
I’ve done a few W30/442 builds. Hp ranged from about 415 to about 480, depending on specs. All had iron heads and stock style intakes.
I have lots of builds on here. Let me know if I can be of help in any way.
Thanks.
Make sure whoever does your machine work is either familiar with Oldsmobile engine machining methods, or won’t argue with the required specifications. Oldsmobile engines need a little more bearing clearance, if the bearings aren’t loose enough during the build, it will “ clearance” itself during operation.
I spent a day at Bill Travto shop during a family vacation ( the rest of the family wanted to do other things than hang out in a machine shop, can you imagine?!) and I picked his brain as to why he does some of the things he does. He told me he cane up with the huge bearing clearance theory by trial and error, if he noticed bearing wear during engine freshening, he opened up the clearance a little more. When the bearings showed no wear, he knew the clearance was enough for things not to flex and move around, the crank/rod/bearing contact is what caused the wear.
He he also reminded me of a old machinist saying, “ if the clearance is too loose, I’m the only one who will know it. If it’s too tight, EVERYONE will know”.
Having trouble finding the books suggested by Bill Trovato. I found Oldsmobile V-8 Engines: How to Build Max Performance by Bill Trovato, but not trade secrets of BBO survival and high out put builds. Do you have links?
That is the book the poster was referring to. It's not ALL about MAX performance.....mostly about what parts need to be replaced on anything from a warmed-over street motor on up the scale.
I'm with the others....some place that "builds drag race motors" doesn't necessarily mean much when it comes to street motors and Oldsmobiles in this case. You REALLY need to find someone that is VERY familiar with Olds big block builds. Folks like Mark ("cutlassefi") and Travato or Rocket Racing up in Wisconsin.
Thanks all, lots of great information! Looks like I have my work cut out for me looking for the right shop. I really don't want to ship it out of state.
I would not raise the compression ratio. A lot of fast street driven cars run that way with low compression. If it is an actual '71 W-30, I would rebuild the engine to stock specs.
I would not raise the compression ratio. A lot of fast street driven cars run that way with low compression. If it is an actual '71 W-30, I would rebuild the engine to stock specs.
unless the vehicle in question is a ultra rare model, why on earth wouldn’t you take advantage of almost 50 years of innovation and technology? Generic cam profiles are far beyond anything that was available in 1971 (custom grind would be even better) torque converters have improved as well, it’s easy to have your cake and eat it too. GM had to design their cars and engines for the typicle tightass people (premium gas is 50 cents more than regular?! Fill it with the cheap stuff!!) who cares if the engine rattles? You can have a camshaft grind that is as smooth as stock and perform better than stock ever would.
Last edited by matt69olds; October 27th, 2018 at 12:02 PM.
I would not raise the compression ratio. A lot of fast street driven cars run that way with low compression. If it is an actual '71 W-30, I would rebuild the engine to stock specs.
I guess you missed this part of his post:
Originally Posted by friesjh
I would really like to see the engine in the W30 have 500+ hp if possible.
Can't get anywhere near that goal by rebuilding the engine to 1971 factory specs.
Roller cams and more stroke seem to be two good ways of upping power significantly. The choke points will be the carb, intake and exhaust manifolds. Things like porting and extrude honing can be done but better done with reproduction parts, which will still look correct. Example the Thornton exhaust manifolds with 2.5" outlets, then port and extrude hone on top of that should add power.
Bore and stroke it out to 496 CID. Ported H heads, W-455 intake manifold with an 800 cfm performance built Quadrajet. Lightweight rotating assembly with a modern ring pack, roller cam matched to the driveline, 10:1 compression. That will give you a shot at 500 hp and be stock appearing. If you come up short of 500 hp who really cares? That combination will be more than enough for any street car.
Bore and stroke it out to 496 CID. Ported H heads, W-455 intake manifold with an 800 cfm performance built Quadrajet. Lightweight rotating assembly with a modern ring pack, roller cam matched to the driveline, 10:1 compression. That will give you a shot at 500 hp and be stock appearing. If you come up short of 500 hp who really cares? That combination will be more than enough for any street car.
Not a bad suggestion😎. However not sure what his budget is.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,719
A good NHRA blue print rebuild @ 461 cu in with the correct cam could get you to 500 HP using the factory intake and carb. A low drag light weight piston setup would be used with very specialized machine work with a flow bench developed head. My stock 315 HP 71 Buick makes over 500 HP, although the cam is not steetable, with the W30 Olds engine specs I think you could do it with a steetable cam. BTW my Buick @ 3635 ran 10.60s with 520 HP.
One other thing you need to consider is how to get enough fuel to the QJet with 500 HP, this will be a problem if you plan to race the car at all, driving around on the street, will be ok. A steetable fuel system will not feed 500 HP under racing conditions.
Last edited by VORTECPRO; October 29th, 2018 at 05:19 AM.
I am doing research on what I want to do for the engine rebuild for my 71 W30 4 speed. Obviously I want the builder to machine, recondition, or replace everything as well as balancing the rotating assembly. Is there anything beyond that anyone can suggest that would help make the engine last a long time? Years ago I read that there are things that OBBs would benefit from like drilling out oil passages, not sure what else, its been years since I research an engine build. When I had the engine in my other 71 442 rebuilt the guy said it was pushing ~450 hp. I have been reading quite a bit and 450 hp seems a bit high, since all the guy did was step up the cam. Don't get me wrong I am extremely satisfied with that engine build and the car runs strong. It will burn tires through second gear without missing a beat and with the 4.66 gears I think that's saying something, but I've never had it on a dyno. Is 450 hp + achievable without detracting from the value of the car? I would really like to see the engine in the W30 have 500+ hp if possible.
The other side of the coin is, what would happen to the value of my car if I upgraded the engine to include higher compression pistons and a nice stiff cam. I plan to have Cliff at Cliff's High Performance tune the Q-Jet for it and have the engine appear stock. Back in the day there were not very many choices for cams, but from the reading I have done there are a lot more cams available these days. Not to mention custom grinds. I am looking for an engine that is driveable, but has more hp than my other 71 442, which supposedly has 450 hp.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!
HEY JOHN
The higher compression pistons are not seen... internal upgrade.
They will require high octane fuel
A stock valve job and mill the heads and maybe the block too will give you an HONEST 400 horses with a good cam
If you need 500 use aluminum heads / headers etc
no sense turning your w parts into trash
Didn't Oldsmobile release booklets for the 69/70 & 71/72 models with 350 & 455 engines, to improve performance for the street and track. Just a suggestion.
So the more I think about this the more I am leaning towards keeping the motor stock. Maybe bumping up the compression a little and a little stiffer cam, but still trying to decide. I wouldn't mind getting a little more hp out of this, but don't want to change much.
I do have one question. From talking to different engine builders the term "squish" has come up and I can't get an answer on what this is. I am assuming this is when the piston comes up to the top of it's compression stroke, but the statement he made in his email does not make sense to me. Can someone please explain? The context from the email is and I quote, "I do NOT lower the compression for pump gas, that just cuts the ***** off of them. I do tighten up the squish considerably, and use big cams on wide LSA’s to lower dynamic compression for pump gas use and optimum power on pump gas." Don't think this person realizes that compression ratio for the 71 W30 is only 8.5:1.
If it's the original numbers matching block and H heads I'd be real hesitant to make massive modifications. I'd say bump the compression a bit, get a good valve job and decent cam. Replace all the normal wear items: oil pump, timing chain, etc. And keep it looking original from the outside.
If you want to build for power, get a spare 455 build that up and keep the original safe.
If it's the original numbers matching block and H heads I'd be real hesitant to make massive modifications. I'd say bump the compression a bit, get a good valve job and decent cam. Replace all the normal wear items: oil pump, timing chain, etc. And keep it looking original from the outside.
If you want to build for power, get a spare 455 build that up and keep the original safe.
I agree with the suggestion of using another engine block to make modifications, and leave the original W-30 engine stock, both internally & externally, with no modifications.
Here's the numbers on a 71W30 4 speed motor Mark built for me. Super streetable, great low end torque.. runs excellent. Mark, if you don't want this posted, I'll remove.
Last edited by Vader; November 14th, 2018 at 05:36 PM.
Here's the numbers on a 71W30 4 speed motor Mark built for me. Super streetable, great low end torque.. runs excellent. Mark, if you don't want this posted, I'll remove.
No problem!! Thanks, forgot about this one!
Forged pistons, H beam rods, modern cam (none of which you can see from the outside).
Glad you’re happy with it, thanks again!!
Request was for pump gas, street driven, torque motor.
Build specs;
.060 over 455, Icon pistons
N crank
Eagle rods
H heads, stock 2.07/1.62 valves, no port work
W30 intake, stock
7041253 Qjet,
stock W/Z manifolds
9.6:1
Custom Lunati Hyd roller, 229/234@.050, .542/528 lift
33* timing
414hp/546tq. without fine tuning..
Thanks Mike, that's really what I wanted to see. What someone else has built and how it turned out. Is the 414 hp and 546 tq at the wheels? I am not sure what the headings on the report you posted mean.
Thanks Mike, that's really what I wanted to see. What someone else has built and how it turned out. Is the 414 hp and 546 tq at the wheels? I am not sure what the headings on the report you posted mean.
im pretty sure that’s flywheel power. I have had my cat on a chassis dyno, 398hp, 458 torque. My car runs mid 11s and runs on pump gas. It’s really hard to compare chassis dyno numbers, things like torque converter and exactly how the test is done make the numbers vary. A chassis dyno (assuming atmospheric conditions are the same, and the test is done exactly the same) is good for checking for progress on a engine change or tuning Don’t get hung up on big horsepower numbers, it’s the torque that make a car fun to drive. The build discribed will shred tires with ease.
Thanks Mike, that's really what I wanted to see. What someone else has built and how it turned out. Is the 414 hp and 546 tq at the wheels? I am not sure what the headings on the report you posted mean.
looking at the build (which is a mighty fine one) there is no chance that the posted numbers are to the wheels. To achieve that (or even come close) you are going to need more displacement and compression as I suggested several weeks ago.
Last edited by oldsmobiledave; November 15th, 2018 at 09:30 PM.
im pretty sure that’s flywheel power. I have had my cat on a chassis dyno, 398hp, 458 torque. My car runs mid 11s and runs on pump gas. It’s really hard to compare chassis dyno numbers, things like torque converter and exactly how the test is done make the numbers vary. A chassis dyno (assuming atmospheric conditions are the same, and the test is done exactly the same) is good for checking for progress on a engine change or tuning Don’t get hung up on big horsepower numbers, it’s the torque that make a car fun to drive. The build discribed will shred tires with ease.
October 24th, 2018, 08:48 AM
