Cam Lube for break in - hydraulic flat tappet
July 9th, 2018, 12:12 PM
#1
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Cam Lube for break in - hydraulic flat tappet
I slathered the cam and the bottoms of the lifters with sticky green Lucas Semi-Synthetic assembly lube and installed.
Since doing so I have turned over the engine several times for various reasons. Including to prime the engine. This cam lube is really sticky stuff. Brake cleaner barely cuts it.
My question is would it be wise or overkill to pull the lifters out again and put cam lube on the bottoms of the lifters? Since the lifters wipe off the cam lube fast when the engine is rotated by hand.
The cam is an Erson Hi Flow. 228 @ .050 and .504 lift. Valve springs are 110 on the seat. I did not pre-pump the lifters.
Since doing so I have turned over the engine several times for various reasons. Including to prime the engine. This cam lube is really sticky stuff. Brake cleaner barely cuts it.
My question is would it be wise or overkill to pull the lifters out again and put cam lube on the bottoms of the lifters? Since the lifters wipe off the cam lube fast when the engine is rotated by hand.
The cam is an Erson Hi Flow. 228 @ .050 and .504 lift. Valve springs are 110 on the seat. I did not pre-pump the lifters.
July 9th, 2018, 12:24 PM
#2
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Location: St. Paul Minnesota
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Do your lifters rotate when the engine is turned ? This is a must ! You could try rotating each lifter by hand to make sure you get the "goo" on the whole bottom. I believe the lifter bottoms are ground with a 40" radius, so they aren't really flat.
July 9th, 2018, 12:43 PM
#3
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When I assemble engines I use Isky Revlube, I usually hand rotate the engine a few times to do valve adjustments and other things. Then I fire it up using the cam manufacturers suggested break in process.
July 9th, 2018, 01:21 PM
#4
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That's interesting. From what I have been seeing lately, every cam grinder recommends a certain "magic potion" and procedure for breaking in their cams.
From what I have been learning lately, there seems to be cam/lifter failures with "flat tappets". It has crossed my mind that they are not heat treating cams and lifters deep enough. After finish grinding, there is not much "case hardening" left.
I don't remember what cam grinder mentioned it, but they were using 8620 steel for the cams. I know that steel is not a full hardening steel, so its case hardened. If they used 8640 steel, it could be hardened to the core.
The reason I mention this is because I will need a cam or two for my 57 Olds and they had a huge problem with soft lobes on the cam for a while.
...just my two cents worth
July 10th, 2018, 06:38 AM
#5
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After the pain in the butt I experienced 20+ years ago with two new different engines that flattened cams for no apparent reason using proper assembly lubes and high quality parts, I vowed to never again mess with a flat tappet hydraulic cam after getting those engines rebuilt.
I was finally able to safely break the cams in on them using the comp cams cam lube and pouring GM engine oil supplement on top of the cam and lifters. I also ran stock springs (check for coil bind and don’t worry about the springs pressure being weak, you are not revving it to 6,000 for cam break-in)on the engine during the cam break-in which was likely another major reason why they both broke the cams in properly the last time they were built.
It is is a big pain to swap the springs on a new engine in the car, but I feel it is the cheapest and best insurance against flattening a lobe on your newly built engine.
We built a homemade break-in stand and broke both engines in on the stand and swapped out springs before installing them into the cars.
Even back then, I should have just swapped to a hydraulic roller cam after seeing the increased power, extra lift, and extra torque that a hydraulic roller cam can give, as well as most importantly, the huge increase in reliability and decreased worry of failure of a $200 cam and lifter set wiping out $2,000 worth of machining and parts... a roller cam has and will always be a huge cost difference over a flat tappet setup (figure $800 for a roller setup vs. $200 for flat tappet), but it is probably the best and cheapest insurance against a high failure-rate new part. If you don’t want to run a bronze distributor gear, make sure and purchase a SADI cam core instead of a steel billet cam. You can run a nitrided or melonized distributor gear with a SADI cam, but you have to run a bronze gear on the steel billet cams.
This was the era when oil manufacturers had decided to quietly and secretly remove all or almost all of the zddp from the oils and that was obviously very bad for performance flat tappet cam users... I highly recommend Joe Gibbs break-in oil and their other performance oils after break in.
I was finally able to safely break the cams in on them using the comp cams cam lube and pouring GM engine oil supplement on top of the cam and lifters. I also ran stock springs (check for coil bind and don’t worry about the springs pressure being weak, you are not revving it to 6,000 for cam break-in)on the engine during the cam break-in which was likely another major reason why they both broke the cams in properly the last time they were built.
It is is a big pain to swap the springs on a new engine in the car, but I feel it is the cheapest and best insurance against flattening a lobe on your newly built engine.
We built a homemade break-in stand and broke both engines in on the stand and swapped out springs before installing them into the cars.
Even back then, I should have just swapped to a hydraulic roller cam after seeing the increased power, extra lift, and extra torque that a hydraulic roller cam can give, as well as most importantly, the huge increase in reliability and decreased worry of failure of a $200 cam and lifter set wiping out $2,000 worth of machining and parts... a roller cam has and will always be a huge cost difference over a flat tappet setup (figure $800 for a roller setup vs. $200 for flat tappet), but it is probably the best and cheapest insurance against a high failure-rate new part. If you don’t want to run a bronze distributor gear, make sure and purchase a SADI cam core instead of a steel billet cam. You can run a nitrided or melonized distributor gear with a SADI cam, but you have to run a bronze gear on the steel billet cams.
This was the era when oil manufacturers had decided to quietly and secretly remove all or almost all of the zddp from the oils and that was obviously very bad for performance flat tappet cam users... I highly recommend Joe Gibbs break-in oil and their other performance oils after break in.
Last edited by Battenrunner; July 10th, 2018 at 07:22 AM.
July 10th, 2018, 05:12 PM
#6
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I wouldnt worry too much about the assembly lube. More important is using the correct break in oil. I have been using the Gibbs BR oil because it is easy for me to get but there are several others that are just as good.
July 12th, 2018, 06:24 PM
#7
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Thanks guys.
The bottoms of the lifters are nice and convexed. When I put two together on the bottoms and rotate them there is a nice wobble.
When the lifter bores and lifters were bone dry I ran one lifter through each bore to make sure the lifter was not tight inside any of them. The lifter was nice and relaxed in the lifter bores. They should have no problem rotating.
Im using Lucas 20-50 break in oil.
The bottoms of the lifters are nice and convexed. When I put two together on the bottoms and rotate them there is a nice wobble.
When the lifter bores and lifters were bone dry I ran one lifter through each bore to make sure the lifter was not tight inside any of them. The lifter was nice and relaxed in the lifter bores. They should have no problem rotating.
Im using Lucas 20-50 break in oil.
Last edited by VinMichael; July 12th, 2018 at 06:26 PM.
July 12th, 2018, 06:49 PM
#8
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I am still using flat tappet cams, many times with high lift and aggressive lobe profiles. I coat the lobes and the lifter feet with Crane black moly paste lube (I believe HRL makes it), and add Comp 159 to the oil. After the 20-25 minute break in at 2000-2500 rpm with outer valve springs only, I change oil and filter, add the inner valve springs. I add 1/2 pint of old formula GM EOS to the 15-40 CI4+ rated oil (not meeting CJ with supposed backward compatibility). After 1/2 to 1 hour running, change oil and filter again.
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