deadeyejedi

want to get started on a new thread for building an engine i picked up.1976 455 out of a 1974 toronado.was told it was running and driving when pulled 20 yearts ago .still has the turbo 425 and differential attached to it,which will be coming off soon.originally wanted to start it up and hear it run but after cleaning things up a bit and trying to preprime it using a drill ive blown the seal on the oil filter twice (nice mess).it is in a unheated building and its been in the single digits every morning so maybe the oil is too thick for this method (10w30)or maybe a plugged pick up screen,at any rate ill be tearing it down over the next few weeks to have a look inside.will post the progress and im sure ill have plenty of questions.

deadeyejedi

couple more pics ,the old timer i got the engine from was certain its was the original motor. but not according to that block stamping

deadeyejedi

spent a good part of the day on tear down of the 455 ,lots of stubborn rusted bolts,didnt look half bad inside though.looks to have the original timing chain and gear and everything is moving freely.did have some carbon buildup on the turkey tray as seen in the pic

deadeyejedi

got more stuff done today doesnt look too bad but does have some rusty lips at the top of the cylinder walls ill see what the machine shop says about it.would like to get by with just a hone if possible.would like some piston and cam advice at some point.

matt68F-85

What are your goals for the rebuild? Probably going to want better cylinder heads.

deadeyejedi

As it stands now the plan is to use a good set of earlier heads or maybe aluminum depending on price and availability.looking for 10 to 1 compression or there about,so new pistons , Edelbrock performer intake, a good cam and set of headers. I would like to see 400 hp over 500 for torque.i would like to go with a hone on the block and the factory rockers and bridges if possible. It’s still early so there is room for the “might as well “ stuff . I have no idea what it’s going in yet !

cutlassefi

Can't do both, you'll have to decide on which way you want to go. Same with pistons. If you're buying new pistons there's no sense in getting std ones again, especially considering the current condition of the bores.

deadeyejedi

I see what you saying mark . Do you think I could reach my hp and torque goals with iron heads new higher compression pistons and retain factory rockers ?

cutlassefi

Yes, I’ve made 415-425 with iron heads etc.
BUT you have to believe you’ll be happy with “just 400 or so”.
AND I made that with real good machine work, good parts and a well thought out plan.

deadeyejedi

well id be happy with 400 hp, but you got me on the well thought out plan

deadeyejedi

well it doesnt look great inside ,i hope this isnt game over .had a lot of rust scale throughout the water jackets and the rod bearings were a little scored .as the pic shows the crank had a pretty good gouge in it .the rest of the main bearings looked ok cam and lifters looked great.ill get it all to the machine shop and get his opinion.at the least it just got more expensive

deadeyejedi

brought the block and crank to the machine shop today.my machinist recommends turning the crank and going with undersize bearings ,do to the depth of the scratches.but thats all contingent on the condition of the block after the hot tank and magnaflux.time to clean up the mess i made in my garage!

deadeyejedi

getting closer to boring the block.my machinist tells me he doesnt have a torque plate for olds .any thoughts on how critical it is to have one for the boring process?

cutlassefi

I hope it’s you asking about boring with a torque plate and not your machinist.
The torque plate isn’t necessary for boring, only honing. And yes it does make a difference.

deadeyejedi

no, i asked him if he had one and he said no they dont build enough olds engines to justify buying one.my worry would be after the bore ,IF the pistons didnt meet the proper clearance in the bore, wouldnt it need a final hone? or am i overthinking this.ive read alot of aftermarket .030 over pistons can be tight (the internet can be a dangrous place )

cutlassefi

Oh dude, you either need to quit reading stuff on the internet or get a new machinist, or both.
You typically bore the block approx. .005 under the anticipated final size. So, if you're going .030 over then he would bore the block .025 over. THEN you hone the final .005 or so out. You never bore it close to the final size as you won't be able to remove the tool marks before you reach your final size.
The clearance is built into the piston. If you buy a .030 over piston, it may be .003 or .004 under that. Bore it .030 and your clearance is automatic, to a point. It still needs to be checked.

deadeyejedi

Thanks for the clarity I’ll leave the technical stuff to him . He is a good engine builder I’m probly driving him nuts with my questions

ScottM

Jeff,
Are you using Clifton Park Engine Rebuilders? They were recommended to me by some Olds friends here in the area. Decided to go with Mark (cutlassefi) for my build as I wanted efi also.

Scott

deadeyejedi

Hi Scott ,no I’m using the Napa machine shop in Wilton . I did speak to the builder in Clifton Park he said he has done alot of olds engines over the years but he doesn’t have a torque plate for olds either.

deadeyejedi

rebuilt the quadra jet for this motor over the weekend stayed with all the factory primaries and secondaries for now.

matt69olds

When your ready to really dial in the Q-Jet call cliff ruggles. He wrote a book a couple years ago about working with and modifying the Q-Jet. He has all the air bleed, metering rod, jets, hangers, almost anything to make that car run great. The Q-Jet is a excellent carb once the are calibrated and dialed in

deadeyejedi

Thanks Matt I’ll make a note of that.the more I worked on theses Quadrajets the easier it gets

deadeyejedi

spoke to my builder today, hes got the block bored 0.030 over and sent the crank out to be turned down 0.010 and polished, also decked or squared the block?(not sure of all these terms) block was 0.020 taller on one side than the other. ordering speed pro flat top forged pistons.still not sure what heads ill be using and have to pick out a cam.my plan would be to put it in a 3400LB ish car with turbo 400 and 308 rear.

cutlassefi

You were doing well until you ordered the speed pro Pistons

deadeyejedi

yeah i know there were better options but the price was right.any thoughts on a cam mark?

cutlassefi

Erson Tq50 if you’re using the stock valvetrain.

deadeyejedi

i am leaning more towards the stock valve train mostly because of cost .i am trying find a good set of iron heads ready to go for a decent price .i looked at the aluminums (which are pricey)and all the valve train stuff that goes with and the budget goes to hell.

442fanatic

Are you aiming to always have to fill up with 90+ octane?
I am at that compression and have to use 90+ otherwise it will ping. Adjusted timing back as well to accompany the 91. Updating to some MSD multi spark would help I have been told.
You can make that HP mark without ultra high compression. Good heads, valves, cam, free flowing exhaust, carb/intake

deadeyejedi

I’m not too concerned with running high octane as it is available locally with no ethanol . I use it in my lower compression cars as well just because it’s nonethanol and I don’t drive them nearly enough.

442fanatic

I have local stations as well, however when is plan on road trips is the issue. I am going to carry a few bottles of Lucas Octane in case.

A few years back the fuel we get in Iowa, be it Ethanol or non is now all 87 octane... Prior the change the e10 blend was 89 octane and the non was 87. Some stations but not all have 91 octane. Noticed a few walmart's with pumps have 94.

Have been told by many that hi compression doesn't equal out to high HP. The cam, the timing, flow of the heads...

In regards to the machining. I had my 455 decked as well the block and the heads. You may want to look into a different intake gasket set from Mondello racing, he has a 3 piece set. When assembling my engine I used the stock style valley pan gasket, had a vacuum leak. Then went with a rock auto re builders valley pan with more mesh around the passages, then had a coolant leak. It finally sealed after we went with the three piece and using sealant.
Point being when they decked the block and heads, changed the angle at which heads meet the intake...

Choosing heads can be tricky. I had a set of E and Ga. The Ga already had the hardened seats in them, so went with them. The machinist put a fresh grind on them, new valve guides, magna fluxed them etc.. I put in new valves, springs, rocker arms... Like you the E brock option blue the budget.

deadeyejedi

Thanks for the advice .I found a set of g heads for sale all done and ready to go but they're 9 hours away. So maybe look for something closer.ive heard that the intake may have to milled after the machine work on the block. I’ll wait and see.

deadeyejedi

Anybody with thoughts on the speed master aluminum heads from jegs ? Site I looked at has a pair for a little over 1000 dollars and they’re complete ? http://www.jegs.com/i/Speedmaster/74....2152/10002/-1

deadeyejedi

Never mind I see now it says sold as a pair but they’re 1060.00 each I didn’t read it through

HWYSTR455

Bernard Procomp heads are $1400 a pair, complete:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BERNARD-MON...YQG9SQ&vxp=mtr

Bernard heads are well respected and quality pieces. It's hard to go through a set of iron heads for that price.

.

deadeyejedi

its a great suggestion ,i actually spoke with Bernard today regarding this option .was a nice guy to talk to and helped me out with a bunch of questions.it will add a good amount to my budget ,but if i dont find a good set of iron heads .i am thinking that is the way to go.

rad

I just bought a set of heads from Mondello, I bought mine bare but the castings look great.

deadeyejedi

got the short block back from the machine shop today.will have to save up some more money to continue but im pretty happy so far. pistons are sitting between .005 and.009 below deck is this a normal variation ?we're using my stock rods which were reconditioned.all other specs were checked and fell within tolerances.double checked all the pipe plugs, oiler plugs and freeze plugs everything looks good to me.want to clean the block down and paint.any suggestions on how to keep it oiled and prevent rust on the newly machined surfaces?

deadeyejedi

cleaned down block with solvent and painted tonight

deadeyejedi

installed the melling oil pump and pick up screen ,had to fashion a driver for the pick up tube worked quite well.also installed the oil filter housing from inline tube no issues there, was a nice fit.still torn between the heads .got a quote from mondello for most everything to finish this build its pricey but but would make it a pretty bad *** 455.

RetroRanger

Did you end up spot welding the pick up too. When I did mine I spot welded it for insurance but I wish there was an easy retainer option like there is for makes.