costpenn

I am working on a resto of a friend's 70 442 with A/C. (Alas, another car that has had a OAI hood put on it) It is claimed to be a original M/T car, and based on my inspection I am pretty sure it is due to the following items usually overlooked during a conversion:

Has the correct accelerator rod - no provision for kick down
A factory looking correct transmission shifter hump with undisturbed hump to floor sealant
Firewall steering column support plate has not been hacked through
Reverse lamp switch on top of column only has the two terminals

So, the engine block ID number matches the VIN, the casting date for the block and heads are 288, the intake casting date is 287 - all good for a 10D car assembly week.

So, long wind up to my question is, my intake manifold at first glance appears to be correct - it has the W30 style PCV nipple - and has the small heater valve hole diameter - correct for 70. The nipple does not appear to have been recently added, (and frankly from everything else associated with this car, it is highly doubtful anyone would even know to add it) but the casting number on the intake is 404521 (automatic) and not 407567 (manual trans) Is this one of those where the P/N and casting numbers do not match, or is there actually a 407567 manifold with those numbers cast into it?

Further complicating matters is the carb is a 7040251 instead of a 7040253 - enough to make my head hurt. It appears to be the original, is it possible some were "subbed" at the factory? It looks like a non 442 A body with 455 and manual tranny could get the 251 if I am reading the charts.correctly.

Any help or guidance would be appreciated.

allyolds68

Doesn’t the MT trans have the partial VIN in 70? You don’t say anything about the tranny being missing.

tru-blue 442

Along for the ride Joe.

allyolds68

I just went back and looked at some notes I have about my engine

My motor was an original 4 speed motor from a 70 442. I have no proof of that but I bought the motor complete from carb (incorrect Holley) to oil pan. The heads had never been off (the intake had been off at one point), the crank was drilled for a four speed, it came with the clutch still attached with the bell housing and the guy still had the correct console shifter. The person I bought it from was a chevy guy who bought the motor for the tranny before the car was junked. The intake had the correct four speed nipple as well and it was a 404521.

FWIW I sold the intake for $100 in 2007 to a hard core Olds guy from the Boston area who was restoring a 70 442 four speed with a friend. He knew exactly what he was looking for because I had to send him numerous pics and he wanted all the casting numbers

droptopron

That's a question you can ask, but I doubt you'll ever get a definitive answer. Considering the stories from back then, I don't think its beyond the realm of possibilities.

When I bought my car (70 442 auto Oct 69 build date) it had a Quickfuel carb but I was given a Quadrajet that the PO said he took off. Build date on the carb was in line for the build date of the car but it was for a W30 automatic. The car was originally bought by an old man and was never hot rodded in any way. I know most of the ownership history and asked the PO who rebuilt the engine about the carb. He said it was on the car when he bought it. Was it swapped at the factory? No way to say for sure but it doesn't sound crazy to me.

joe_padavano

Let's clarify this thread a little, since the data at 442.com is not completely correct (I know, you're shocked...).

First, yes, this is a case of the P/N and casting numbers do not necessarily match. Specifically, Olds used the same AT intake casting to make an MT intake by simply drilling the hole and pressing in a nipple. Since this became a different part, it was assigned a different part number despite using the same casting number.

As for correct intake numbers, the 1970 intakes are not the same as 71-72.

1970 AT casting 404521, P/N 404521
1970 MT casting 404521, P/N 404848
1971-72 AT casting 407567, P/N 407567
1971-72 MT casting 407567, P/N 407568

costpenn

Thank you Joe! Any commentary about the carb?

joe_padavano

The parts list table in the 1970 Engine assembly manual shows the '253 carb for all A-body 455 manual trans applications except W-30. '251 is only shown for the AT motors. The "TU" code engine in this table is the SMT 455 for A-body use.

allyolds68

I know in 68 251's were used for MT applications but the assembly manual documents this pretty well because the 253's weren't added until late in the 68 production year


How close is the carb date code to the cowl tag build date? That may be a way of ruling it out. There were lots of service replacement carbs with early to mid 70's dates too. I have a 7029253 with a 74 or 75 date code

joe_padavano

To add to Mike's post (and bring us back to the OP's question), here's an excerpt from the Dealer Service Bulletins that specifically lists carb usage. Note that for 1968, it clearly shows both the '251 and '253 carbs for SMT 400 motors, but only shows the '253 for 1970 SMT 455s.

costpenn

Pretty definitive for me. Thank you.

Paladin31

Joe just to throw this out, perhaps the car went into the dealership, and needed the carb replaced, tech goes to a shelf...and replaces it with a 251

My auto 70 442 has a 251 carb, my car was born on/about 8/18/69, carb is a 9/2/69. I know it isn't original of course dates don't match.

Just a theory for you

Regards, Brett

joe_padavano

Brett,

Certainly a viable option. The point is, that's not how it came from the factory. These cars are half a century old. A lot can happen. Back in the late 70s, my 1972 442 (350 car) had a 442 emblem on the glovebox and a cutout back bumper. Both are incorrect. Of course, I'm the one who put them there.

Paladin31

Joseph, should I start calling you Capricorn II.....?

testing your memory my friend

Brett