Front Crank Seal behind the Harmonic Balancer

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Old August 31st, 2017, 10:26 PM
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Front Crank Seal behind the Harmonic Balancer

Replacing the HB, and fixing a leak. Without the Kent-Moore BT-6405 seal installation tool, how do you know how far to install the seal?

455, 1969 442.

As far as seals, I'm looking at National 472082. I have the 1050026 sealer, but what is the lubricant 1050169 that's called out in the 1969 repair manual?
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Old August 31st, 2017, 11:15 PM
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I have always installed the seal so the front metal part is about flush with the timing cover.
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Old September 1st, 2017, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Fun71
I have always installed the seal so the front metal part is about flush with the timing cover.
It should actually be slightly past flush, though the reality is that this is not critical. If there is any groove on the HB at all, install a repair sleeve.
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Old September 1st, 2017, 05:16 AM
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At this point, I feel compelled to point out that with the HB off, you MIGHTASWELL pull the front cover and replace the timing chain...
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Old September 1st, 2017, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by joe_padavano
At this point, I feel compelled to point out that with the HB off, you MIGHTASWELL pull the front cover and replace the timing chain...
Yer killin' me, Smalls! But for real, I probably should. Damn I didn't want to drain the cooling system.
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Old September 1st, 2017, 09:01 AM
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Lol, see how small jobs just snowball...
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Old September 1st, 2017, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by oldcutlass
Lol, see how small jobs just snowball...
Wanna see me turn this into a body-off resto?
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Old September 1st, 2017, 09:14 AM
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I already have a date with the harmonic balancer and replacing the power steering system. Then I'll be crawling under the dash to straighten out 47 years of wiring no-no's from all the stereos and accessories that someone had wired in. Need new carpet, too. And those bumpers. Trumpets. Paint looks like it was put on with a broom. New new disc rotors/pads. Probably should flush the brake lines. Motor on the rear defroster sings a nice howl when it runs. Doors need re-aligned, then the front fenders/hood. Firewall grommets. For some reason, the car has a lean...not sure what that's about. Yeah, body off, soon enough!
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Old September 1st, 2017, 10:02 AM
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Its an affliction, you have the tell tale symptoms.
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Old March 13th, 2018, 04:07 PM
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Does the seal come out and go back in without having to remove the timing cover?
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Old March 13th, 2018, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Mustfire
Does the seal come out and go back in without having to remove the timing cover?
Yes, in fact the Chassis Service Manual shows you exactly how to do that. Of course, there is a special Kent Moore tool to make this easier, but it can be done without that tool.

The only question you need to ask yourself is, how confident are you in the condition of the timing chain and cam gear?
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Old March 14th, 2018, 11:39 AM
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Pretty confident. The engine has less than 1K miles on it. New H B installed when engine rebuilt. It has leaked since day one. BTW, how likely is it that the new H B's "shaft" diameter is not correct? What should it be?
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Old March 14th, 2018, 01:15 PM
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If the neoprene is off the the factory timing gear, plan on pulling the oil pan to clean the chunks out of the oil pump pickup screen . It's like hitting a wasp nest with a stick.
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Old March 14th, 2018, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by joe_padavano
If there is any groove on the HB at all, install a repair sleeve.
Or install the seal in a different spot😉.
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Old March 14th, 2018, 06:04 PM
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I bought an aftermarket HB for my last build that leaked. The builder measured the old HB and the new one was bigger by just enough to roll the seal and make it leak. He turned it down on a lathe and solved the leak. May not be your issue but easy enough to check. Good luck.
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Old March 17th, 2018, 12:26 PM
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Do you know what the actual specified diameter of the H B is?
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Old March 17th, 2018, 04:06 PM
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My old one is at the shop so they can compare size with what they buy. I'm off next week. Will try to get by there and measure the old one for you.
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Old March 17th, 2018, 06:20 PM
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Or they neglected to install the oil slinger.
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Old March 18th, 2018, 09:30 AM
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okay, thanks!
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Old March 22nd, 2018, 12:08 PM
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Measurements from my used balancer

You can see there is wear at the seal area so don't go with the smaller measurement.
Drawing represents balancer with main body on top, hub and then shaft at the bottom.
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Old March 22nd, 2018, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary M
Drawing represents balancer with main body on top, hub and then shaft at the bottom.
There is a career for blue print drawing in your future.
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Old March 22nd, 2018, 04:44 PM
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thankyouverymuch

I took a drafting class in high school. Was absent the day they covered neatness.
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Old March 22nd, 2018, 10:13 PM
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The material of the seals today isn't as robust as the original seals. I have had more than my share of seal failures after purchasing present day seals. In the end, I sourced NOS seals, installed them, and no more problems. If you still have the original seal, compare it to the replacement and decide for yourself if it is comparable. Sometimes they are, but most of the times, they are not.
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Old March 23rd, 2018, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Mustfire
Pretty confident. The engine has less than 1K miles on it. New H B installed when engine rebuilt. It has leaked since day one. BTW, how likely is it that the new H B's "shaft" diameter is not correct? What should it be?
Mine did this from day one after rebuild in 2013 and the HB was aftermarket. First they tried putting a sleeve on but it still leaked. Took off sleeve, turned down HB shaft on lathe to match old one (except wear groove) and fixed the leak. They said if the shaft is too big the seal material rolls over enough to loose effectiveness. May be a good idea to change the seal again and check diameter as well.
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Old March 23rd, 2018, 05:53 AM
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I'm guessing this is in millimeters?
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Old March 23rd, 2018, 07:30 AM
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Yes

50.81 MM or 2.005 inches
50.87 MM or 2.025 inches
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Old March 24th, 2018, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Bryan Burch
I already have a date with the harmonic balancer and replacing the power steering system. Then I'll be crawling under the dash to straighten out 47 years of wiring no-no's from all the stereos and accessories that someone had wired in. Need new carpet, too. And those bumpers. Trumpets. Paint looks like it was put on with a broom. New new disc rotors/pads. Probably should flush the brake lines. Motor on the rear defroster sings a nice howl when it runs. Doors need re-aligned, then the front fenders/hood. Firewall grommets. For some reason, the car has a lean...not sure what that's about. Yeah, body off, soon enough!
That sounds like I did the paint job on that one.
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