ReallyWildStuff

I made an album and captioned the (low)lights:

https://flic.kr/s/aHsm1YduY3

I'd appreciate any tips re: getting this weight-saving part on the car. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

I bought this starter new - although it has been rebuilt once re: superficial fire damage. 15 years ago I was running this mini starter on this engine and with this pan too - but I also remember I had to shim the S out of it even then, and it always seemed like a dicey installation.

Now that I have it on the stand I've looked again. I did not take a picture before I started removing material from the pan lip BUT in the photos you can see the mini starter motor housing doesn't clear the pan even after all the material has been removed.

A standard GM starter with solenoid heat shield has always fit as shown.

oldcutlass

That is quite the antique. Why not just invest in a more modern ministarter that can be clocked. Shims were not meant to be use for clearance issues, they set the gear mesh between starter and ring gear only. With that many shims you may shear the teeth off.

joe_padavano

I don't think clocking will fix this problem. The adjustable ones I've seen all clock around the armature axis of the motor. All this changes is the location of the solenoid, not the main body of the motor. In the photos it appears that the main body is what is hitting, not the solenoid.

ReallyWildStuff

I made another album with photos of the starter:

https://flic.kr/s/aHsm1YDMuu

There are three open threaded holes in the starter's mounting block. One of the mounting bolts is apparently accessible only from inside the housing.

I guess the provenance of this part is somewhat suspect. Perhaps it was not re-assembled in the correctly-clocked holes? What's the procedure to remove that third bolt?

oldcutlass

But yet a full size bolts in.

joe_padavano

The new photos show that the pinion shaft is not concentric with the armature, so rotating it WILL provide more clearance. It's hard to tell how to reach that third bolt since you haven't showed it to us. PS, back off a little on the photos. Most are too close up to be useful.

oldcutlass

Looks like you can clock the body to the mounting block as I see an extra hole. Take the 3 mounting bolts out and see. You may have to remove the motor from its mount to access the 3rd bolt.

joe_padavano

A photo of the flywheel face of the mounting block would also be useful.

joe_padavano

I'm not convinced there is a third bolt there. Have you removed the other two and tried to separate the plate?

oldcutlass

Based on the position of the other 2 bolts, I would say there is a 3rd bolt.

joe_padavano

If there is, I'm at a loss to see how one would access it. I suspect the starter is from another (Japanese) application and that third bolt is used and installed from the other side into a threaded hole in the starter nose. I bet whoever designed this starter ignored it.

ReallyWildStuff

I added more photos of the starter to this album:

https://flic.kr/s/aHsm1YDMuu

I marked three mounting bolts 1, 2 & 3. The bolt heads on 1 & 2 are externally accessible and you can see the empty threaded holes clockwise from existing bolts.

The head for bolt 3 is not externally accessible. Its similar empty threaded hole is also visible and seems like it would accept bolt 3 if the entire housing could be rotated...

I do not know how to take the motor apart - from the end? Loosen/remove the huge Phillips heads in the middle of the motor casing?

joe_padavano

If there is a third bolt, you will only be able to access it by removing the motor. Remove the two hex bolts on the back cover of the motor. You should be able to slide the motor, armature, and back cover out of the starter nose with some effort. Expect the housing to be stuck in the starter nose - some force will be required. Either take extreme care not to dislodge the brushes from the commutator or bite the bullet and pull the back cover and stator windings off the armature first. You'll need to carefully spring the brushes back into place when you reassemble in that case. You should be able to see the third bolt down inside the starter nose.

wr1970

Well i never could get the first two post of pictures to open. What car is this starter off of? What brand of starter?

ReallyWildStuff

Damn, I knew I should have majored in EE. Do you want to talk about Exchange Database Availability Groups or Windows High Availability Cluster Arrays instead?

The housing I have seems to match this item:

http://www.supercarsunlimited.com/Su...rter-i250.aspx

I've removed bolts 1 & 2. I also removed the front cover - "there's a motor in there". I have to find some literature or directions or something to know what to do next - I can't follow Joe's advice above without knowing the vocabulary. Fing amateur hour...

oldcutlass

There are 2 long screws that hold the motor to the front housing. That would be the part that you are holding in the first group of pictures in your hand. Once those 2 screws are removed the motor should slide back and you will see the 3rd bolt that holds the assy to the mounting plate.

ReallyWildStuff

i now recall that the starter when New was a McLeod-branded item

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mcl-810152

I've since talked to Joe @ McLeod, who recommended I contact "JR @ Powermaster".


I pulled the two long screws off with the cover. Im trying to pull the motor out of the case. It came a little ways out - then something went click at the other end, and now the motor won't go back in where it was. It also doesn't seem to want to come out any further.

oldcutlass

May be the brushes popped off. We can only go by what we saw in your pictures and past experience with other brands. I for one like the Powermaster units.

ReallyWildStuff

i see what the deal is now. I wish I hadn't pulled up on the motor.

i wonder what torque values to use for reassembly...

wr1970

Okay this is the smartest thing i have read from all these post.Go get a power master starter. To the op being as you never told me what car. Being as i don't know if you are using headers. I have no clue other than you posted in the BBO forum. On a side note i see no need for a damn heat shield on my 1970 442 with headers using a 9510 power master starter. Why the rest of you get hung up on the use of one is beyond me. I guess because the car came out with it and you think you need it.LOL

oldcutlass

Just tighten the screws, I wouldn't worry about torque values. So what is the deal that you see?

joe_padavano

That is exactly what happened. I've never worked with a starter that had brushes in the nose, only at the back under the rear cover.

ReallyWildStuff

JR called, he was nice.

I took the starter apart and clocked it. I made a new album:

https://flic.kr/s/aHsm7vN5MB

I took the photos of the innards after I'd pulled the brushes back and reinserted the...commutator, is that the right term?... back into the assembly.

I don't know what the application could be with it clocked like it was. It fits pretty good now - granted without an exhaust manifold mounted (repro W/Zs only now coming back in stock this week).

Thanks for all the help. I am trying to stave off the cabin fever down here in Planet Houston.

oldcutlass

Glad you got it set right. It looks to be a rather well built unit. Don't forget to bench test it before the engine goes back in and set the gear mesh if necessary. Stay dry in Houston.

joe_padavano

Pontiac, perhaps? The pinion doesn't look too happy, unfortunately.

oldcutlass

The pinion doesn't look too bad in the original pictures up top.

Run to Rund

If you can't get this starter to fit right, get a RobbMc.