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This is JMO, if I'm wrong so be it. In 1971 they lowered the compression. The Delta I had was like 8.2 CR. They lowered the ratio in the "pistons" not by the G/Ga heads in 1971/72. In 1973 the pistons have less dish but the J-heads are where they lowered the ratio to 8.5 CR. This is the main reason J's are not desirable because to flow numbers are down a bit in stock form compared to earlier heads but add in the bigger volume of the combustion chamber hence the term J stands for junk. I'd put my money in older heads first. Jmo.
Dwight Kohout runs ported J heads, and with a small cam and quadrajet and runs low 12s high 11s.
Lol, thank Kenny. Long story short, the "J" heads I bought have been ported, polished, etc, etc. They're basically "C" heads but with the smaller valves.
As for the fuel pump outlet, I believe Copper is right; I'm pretty sure this outlet is a pipe thread. I just talked to Summit and they're stumped as well. He said this pump is for a non-AC car which makes no sense to me. So I think I need a pipe thread-to-AN adapter.
After looking at the application for this pump, it's for an 88, 98, or Toro. I just saw that it was for Olds 330, 350, 425, 455 with a stock outlet and thought I'd be fine. Guess i was wrong. As long as I can find an adapter I should be good to go, yes? The arm that engages the eccentric wouldn't be different, would it? It seemed to bolt up just fine and looked the same as my small block pump.
Yup, it's pipe thread. I picked up a 1/4 NPT nipple at the hardware store and it screws in two turns by hand and another easy 1/2 turn with a little effort.
I just picked up this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/380661558131
I'm falling down a rabbit hole now Anyone ever use these stainless radiator and heater hoses? I think they look kinda' cool. They probably don't flow very smoothly. Any other downsides?
You can buy some thinwall stainless tubing and have an exhaust shop bend the tubes and use silicone boots with high psi clamps like turbo cars do and it polishes up.
If you like them that's all that matters. I would suggest to mount them, or hold them down, in the same fashion the factory did, per the assembly manual.
I had them, they can be a pain. I didn't take into account the twist of the motor, my alternator fan cut into one hose. Plus all the hoses, including the thermostat bypass should be the stainless hoses or all the pressure is exerted on that hose. I had my lower hose an inch too short plus unless you buy the larger cover, the covers in the kit won't fit most Oldsmobile's water pump outlet. Mine was fine till the uncovered 2" adapter deteriorated and the replacement leaked at the water pump outlet so I went back to regular hoses since it was on my G body.
Yup, it's pipe thread. I picked up a 1/4 NPT nipple at the hardware store and it screws in two turns by hand and another easy 1/2 turn with a little effort.
I just picked up this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/380661558131
It is just strange to be like that but good to know.
I had them, they can be a pain. I didn't take into account the twist of the motor, my alternator fan cut into one hose. Plus all the hoses, including the thermostat bypass should be the stainless hoses or all the pressure is exerted on that hose. I had my lower hose an inch too short plus unless you buy the larger cover, the covers in the kit won't fit most Oldsmobile's water pump outlet. Mine was fine till the uncovered 2" adapter deteriorated and the replacement leaked at the water pump outlet so I went back to regular hoses since it was on my G body.
The things we don't think about until they happen. Good info here.
Originally Posted by olds 307 and 403
It is just strange to be like that but good to know.
I just didn't check the application. I just saw summit listed it for the 330, 350, 425, and 455. Turns out it was for an older 88, 89, or Toro.
Copper to the rescue, as usual. Thanks dude!
Hey fellers, I started fitting the Champion 4 row today and yeah, it's going to be a challenge. It's like trying to fit a stack of cinder blocks in there! I've pounded the top plate into shape (mine doesn't have separate saddles) and modified the bottom saddles but I'm going to have to relocate the shroud holding tabs on the bottom.
But I was on the Champion website and found where they said not to go too big or the engine won't warm up enough. I'm hoping I don't have that problem
Crap, that is a big monster of a rad. I think the 2 core with 1" tubes is the way to go, also $100 cheaper. In theory it should cool just as well or better, due to better airflow over the cores and fit better as well. I would rather have too big than too small.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; February 17th, 2018 at 02:44 PM.
Crap, that is a big monster of a rad. I think the 2 core with 1" tubes is the way to go, about $150 cheaper. In theory it should cool just as well or better, due to better airflow over the cores and fit better as well. I would rather have too big than too small.
I was on the Champion website and found where they said not to go too big or the engine won't warm up enough.
That doesn't make any sense to me. The thermostat will ensure the coolant in the block gets up to operating temp. But yeah, oh what a problem to have...
This is, indeed, the mc161. I'll get it in there one way or another. Maybe I'll just zip-tie it to the grill
I't s going to be a while, Retro, but I will certainly post the results. The engine is pretty much done. I need to install the intake and fuel pump and rejet the carb. And I bought a whole bunch of -6 AN fittings and steel line for the trans lines. I know I just re-did the engine bay a few years ago but it's going to need it again. MAWS!
Ken, that's kind of what I thought. And am hoping, lol.
That's a nice radiator! However, looking at the width of the radiator of 2.800 (according Champion web site). This will be issue with the fan shroud as the shroud will be forced/ moved toward the engine, thus, causing interference with the fan and shroud. Maybe some how move the radiator toward the front of the car (away from the engine), modify the shroud, or use electric fans. Good luck.
That's a nice radiator! However, looking at the width of the radiator of 2.800 (according Champion web site). This will be issue with the fan shroud as the shroud will be forced/ moved toward the engine, thus, causing interference with the fan and shroud. Maybe some how move the radiator toward the front of the car (away from the engine), modify the shroud, or use electric fans. Good luck.
I jumped on here this morning to ask this very question, Joe. I did stick the pulley and fan/clutch assembly on with the radiator in and the distance looks good. BUT, this is with the small block still in the bay. I know the 455 is a little wider and taller but is it longer? Or will I have an issue using the small block engine mounts and pads moving the block closer to the front?
As of right now that distance looks good. I am having trouble with the top plate-to-bottom shroud tabs distance but I think it's because the shroud is sitting too far back on the tabs.
Also, I have considered moving the AC condenser forward a bit but that would mean elongating the mounting holes (or drilling new if there is room). That would gain me 3/4-1 inch.
Anyway, I'll report back but I don't have a lot of time for work right now. But spring break is only a few weeks away
In theory, the fan blade should be in same position for both engines. However, if you use different engine mounts, then, that may move the center line of the engine. Could be lowered or raised. In general, there may be issue with the fan blade hitting the bottom part of the shroud. Are going to leave the 350 frame mounts, and engine mounts?
Yeah, Joe. I was thinking I would reuse the 350 mounts. They're only a few years old, maybe 5k miles. They should still be good. One less unknown for the equation.
I got the condenser out this morning and spent the next couple of hours cleaning off all the bugs! But it looks like I can gain maybe an inch moving the condenser forward. I'm betting I'll still have to relocate the shroud lower tabs.
When all else fails just make your own shroud mounts. I had to do that when i ran the stock stuff. I had to massage the plastic too as i had a slight clearance issue between the fan and shroud. The radiator brought the top plate up and it brought up the shroud with it.
When all else fails just make your own shroud mounts. I had to do that when i ran the stock stuff. I had to massage the plastic too as i had a slight clearance issue between the fan and shroud. The radiator brought the top plate up and it brought up the shroud with it.
I haven't compared the old radiator to the new, height wise. But it's supposed to be the same. I get the geometry here, it's just forcing it into what I want that's the problem, lol.
If the radiator is taller, can I just use a few washers between the top plate and shroud to re-center it? I'd need longer bolts, though.
I used a cheap radiator comb on the condenser tonight. That worked surprisingly well. A quick spritz of paint and it looks great. But I don't want the grill and everything behind it getting that trashed again. Anyone ever use screen-wire and magnets to make "driving grills"?
I'll see if I can make any progress on the fitment this weekend.
Hey, what fuel filter are you fellas running on your big blocks? A friend gave me a -6AN Earl's with a sintered bronze element (35 micron) but it's only meant to be a pre-filter. I'd like a -6AN if possible but it looks like those go for big bucks.
Okay, now I'm confused. The Earl's filters 35 microns but is meant to be a pre-filter only but this Russell Competition filters 40 microns and is meant as a real fuel filter.
You will be ok. Its a much better filter than anything stock or stock replacement. The q jets only had that tiny filter . My old canister was only 10 microns and its all I ran. It was mounted right after the fuel cell. I now am running a 40 micron fuel lab filter and that is all. Its a reuseable element.
Last edited by coppercutlass; February 22nd, 2018 at 05:26 PM.
You will be ok. Its a much better filter than anything stock or stock replacement. The q jets only had that tiny filter . My old canister was only 10 microns and its all I ran. It was mounted right after the fuel cell. I now am running a 40 micron fuel lab filter and that is all. Its a reuseable element.
10 microns sounds like you'd starve for fuel but you're running an electric pump. That makes a big difference from what I've read. Does it being metal with a metal element mean it soaks up more heat though?
How are you cleaning your element? Brake cleaner?
I was/am running mechanical and that's one of the reasons I did away with the crappier filter. although I don't think flow was an issue on my end with -8 lines through out and it being one of the coke can canister filters. The top of the canister also cracked lol.
Yeah brake cleaner would work. The filter with the steel mesh will allow up to 200gph.
I was/am running mechanical and that's one of the reasons I did away with the crappier filter. although I don't think flow was an issue on my end with -8 lines through out and it being one of the coke can canister filters. The top of the canister also cracked lol.
Yeah brake cleaner would work. The filter with the steel mesh will allow up to 200gph.
Why did I think you were running an electric? It's a mystery. And 200 gallons per hour? So I'll be filling the tank every six minutes? I'd better find another hobby!
JK. I think the Holley you gave me is rated for 80 gph. From my research, that should be plenty for my needs.
Hey, quick question for the group;
When it's time to break-in the engine, I'll need to also make sure the 200-4r has enough pressure. That's a lot of stuff to keep track of at 2000-2500 rpm. Can I just leave the torque converter disconnected during break-in? Does the trans even need to be at the correct pressure if it's in park?
Just an update: I moved the AC condenser forward about an inch and this gave me the room needed for the 4 row without having to relocate the shroud tabs on the bottom. But now I'm looking for some sort of replacement for the rubber that was a part of the saddles. Mine were in bad shape and no longer fit anyway. I've tried several types of weatherstripping including open cell, closed cell, and dense foam rubber but they all shrivel and die when put in the over at 180* for ten minutes. Copper suggested cutting up and old radiator hose so that's my next experiment.
As for the new engine, I'm finalizing plans and gathering parts for the new fuel system and lines (AN-6 fittings and braided hose) and replacing the trans cooler lines, also with AN-6.
A couple of unexpected issues with the Edelbrock intake: the brake booster vacuum port seems to be on the passenger side rear instead of the driver's side (weird). And the pad that holds the carburetor linkage AC plunger thingy (that keeps the throttle from closing too quickly) is tapped for a much smaller bolt than my small block intake so I'll have to drill and tap that hole.
I have spring break next week so I'm hoping to get most of these list items finished up. I need to get the small block out of the bay so i can start cleaning and repainting but I've got no where to put it
Radiator and fuel line or cooling hoses, rubber spring blocks for coil springs, the rubber bottom of garage doors or freezers and refrigerator door gaskets and more are all possibilities for re-purposing. Hardware and plumbing stores can be your friends.
Thanks Firewalker. I wasn't sure that I could use just any ol' rubber. Isn't the ignition temp like 250*, something like that? I mean the "plan" is never to get that hot, of course.
February 10th, 2018, 08:02 AM
Anyone ever use these stainless radiator and heater hoses? I think they look kinda' cool. They probably don't flow very smoothly. Any other downsides?
I've pounded the top plate into shape (mine doesn't have separate saddles) and modified the bottom saddles but I'm going to have to relocate the shroud holding tabs on the bottom.
