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Like me, you never need something until after it's gone
I'll post an ad as soon as I know more about the condition of the cylinders.
I called our machine shop and like I feared, they're 6 months out, at least. Copper, do you have a reputable shop up your way that could get to it soon-ish?
Borowski in Rockdale did the engine work on pretty much everyone's engine that I talk with at car shows in my area. A few were olds engines as well. You may want to touch base with them too.
Opel is booking out at least 6-8 months. Brian, Borowski is the same and doesn't want to work on an Olds.
I have more leads. Waiting on call-backs.
Thanks fellas.
Okay, I called a friend that knew a race shop that doesn't advertise but builds racing engines and will do the work. He said a few weeks. He also sounds like he knows what he's talking about, at least to me he sounds very legit.
Pricing:
$350 for clean, deck, and bore + the cost of the cam bearings.
Another $300 to line hone (or was it line bore?)
Plus the cost of going over the rods and he said he could get a better price on pistons than me. Of course he wants me to go forged over cast.
So, do I need a line bore and will cast pistons serve my needs?
He said he wouldn't build an engine without a line hone but that it was up to me.
Okay, better get back out there. More disassembly to do.
Last edited by Macadoo; July 13th, 2017 at 11:32 AM.
Okay, I called a friend that knew a race shop that doesn't advertise but builds racing engines and will do the work. He said a few weeks. He also sounds like he knows what he's talking about, at least to me he sounds very legit.
Pricing:
$350 for clean, deck, and bore + the cost of the cam bearings.
Another $300 to line hone (or was it line bore?)
Plus the cost of going over the rods and he said he could get a better price on pistons than me. Of course he wants me to go forged over cast.
So, do I need a line bore and will cast pistons serve my needs?
He said he wouldn't build an engine without a line hone but that it was up to me.
Okay, better get back out there. More disassembly to do.
Google the term "align hone" or "align honing". He probably doesn't want a come back.
Align hone. Looked it up. I get it. Makes sense. But $300-$350 for just the align hone sounds high.
Since I'm getting new pistons, do I need to make sure each rod goes back into the same cylinder?
Oh, and here's some fun stuff from today's [short] work day:
1. The timing set and cam were aligned for a chevy, NOT an Olds.
2. One of the pistons is in backward with the notches facing the back of the motor.
3. Not sure this is necessarily bad but the crank gear slid off by hand. I was trying to get my puller on it and it kept sliding out. Took me a minute to realize I didn't need the puller, lol.
This block has been hot tanked already. It's just too clean inside the water passages and under the intake. I just checked the decks with a straight edge, applying the pressure to the surface between the middle two bores and I can't get a 0.0015 feeler gauge underneath, checked from one end to the other and diagonally. And that's on both sides.
So my question: will this be checked by the builder and skipped if found straight?
The cost to bore and hone alone will be about 350 , balancing about 180 pressing pistons on and off 90 , grinding the crank about 150 . prices are what i have paid. Milling heads about 120 decking block about 150 ,
if its straight just skip it. the align hone is another thing that could be skipped , Now boring for new pistons and the the hone with a torque plate is a must.
My current 355 all it got was bore&hone, grind crank, balance . plus install of the pistons.
Copper - I asked around about FX since they're in my back yard. A few Chevy guys said they had them some work. Mac - may be good to ask them. I can scope them out for you if they sound interesting.
I know a very well respected olds guy who uses them. Lets just say his stuff is top notch and he works with them on his projects but does not work there. So they know olds
Shoot, I forgot to ask about the torque plate. Is that the common method or is it just for Olds?
I'll call FX tomorrow and see how far out they're booking.
What do you guys think I should do with my small block when all this is said and done? I'm leaning towards parting it out. Might make more money selling the intake, headers, 7a heads, etc. than selling a motor that has a tired, low compression, short block. I'm going to need to recoup some of these expenses. Heck, I could sell off all the pieces and give the block to you, Copper, if you want it.
Since I'm getting new pistons, do I need to make sure each rod goes back into the same cylinder?
No, I don't think it matters.
Originally Posted by Macadoo
3. Not sure this is necessarily bad but the crank gear slid off by hand. I was trying to get my puller on it and it kept sliding out. Took me a minute to realize I didn't need the puller, lol.
That is how my 350 is. Never used a puller to get the crank gear off. Just make sure the woodruff(?) key is in the slot.
That's what i figured. I think this guy had a good start but petered out pretty fast.
The pistons have new rings and the crank journals look really good. Not even a tiny bit of scoring. I haven't mic'd them yet, though. I had a couple buddy's come by today "to help me work" but I didn't get anything done once they got here, sigh...
I also got my bore gauge today but didn't get a chance to check the cylinders yet. I'm 99% sure I need to bore but the pistons, with the new rings, didn't catch at all when I pushed them out. I wasn't expecting that and I had to catch the first one mid-air
Do new bearings have a white-ish coating on them? Because these do.
Lastly, I have a friend going to the nationals in a few days. Should I have him look for anything for me? Original high-compression pistons, maybe?
Sounds like you don't need a re-bore. The bearings and rings if the motor hasn't been run are reuseable.
Oh, I wish it were that simple. There IS a ridge at the top of the bore but it's so incredibly shallow I can't even catch a nail on it; or apparently a piston ring. But I can feel it with the skin of my index finger. Hard to explain. I also need to check the taper of the bore and see if it's within specs. And some dumb-a$$ didn't hone the bores correctly. The scratches aren't cross hatched but almost completely horizontal.
And I'm starting to think that having my buddy look for pistons at the Nationals is a bad idea. There would be no way to check the ring lands or skirts.
Okay, so I figured out how to use the bore gauge. I haven't measured the actual diameter yet but I took a couple readings of cylinder #1. I'm trying not to get my hopes up but the taper looks to be 0.0002". Not 0.002, but 0.0002. Out of round I think is 0.0003. According to the book this is well within specs. Hoping for the best, planning for the worst.
If the rest check out just as good I think I'll pull one of those new piston rings, check the gap and see if it catches at all on the possible ridge in each of the cylinders.
The plot thickens....
Yeah, I used one in high school. I think they are meant to cut the ridge so you can get the pistons out. I'll try my ring test and if it catches, I'll have the block bored.
So, I picked up a set of heads today. They are J heads but allow me explain:
This dude ran an engine rebuilding/machining company for over 50 years. They just closed last summer. Something to do with zoning changes and he just wasn't up to moving and starting over. He sold off all (or most) of his equipment and retired. A really cool guy. We talked for almost two hours after I handed over my cash. He had his garage (looked like a new house) packed with boxes of car parts; boxes of crane springs, assembly lubes (I should have asked him for a bottle), cam shafts for all makes, pistons both forged and cast hypereutectic, 17x15" wheels (lots of them), gaskets galore ( he gave me a set of exhaust and intake gaskets for free), torque converters, other sets of heads, oil pumps, etc., etc. He seemed kind of bored with his retirement which might explain why he was so talkative. The original ad for the heads reads as follows:
"OLDS 400/455 HI-PERF CYL HEADS PR - Competition Valve Job - Heads PORTED & Blended COMPLETELY w/ ENLARGED Valve Seat Pockets - all new HD VALVE GUIDES - RESURFACE MILLED - Machined for HD Teflon Seals & EXTRA VALVE LIFT Clearance - CRANE VALVE SPRINGS, RETAINERS, SEALS - C.N. 411873, Suffix J - APROX 80 cc - OK Unleaded Gas - HELLUVADEAL ON REALLY GOOD HEADS, w/ Gasket Sets Included Can be used on HP 403 engine"
I ignored this ad once I saw they were J heads, thinking "right, performance J heads, whatever". But then I saw a post by Joe P that said they could flow as well as any others with proper porting. So I took another look.
I took one of my original, non-ported, J heads with me to compare and he showed me everything that was different with his ported heads. All the AIR bumps are gone, all the sharp edges around the valve guides are gone, the bowls(?) under the valve heads are larger and smoother (he pulled a valve for me), the combustion chambers were polished so the pockets for the valve heads don't seem as deep, they were surfaced for straightness, and on and on.
The price was more than fair. He said the customer paid half up front and didn't come back to claim them and he just wanted what was owed. It doesn't seem like he even charged me for the heads themselves, just what was owed for the work and parts.
As soon as I got home, I CC'd the chambers with plexi and windex and they look to be right at 81 CC's. Not bad. I suppose the surfacing compensated somewhat for the chamber polishing.
Maybe I made a mistake and maybe I didn't but I really liked this guy. He even offered to look at my block and crank for me if I would drive them up. It's a pretty good drive but would be worth it.
Anyway, I feel like it was a good day.
Last edited by Macadoo; July 31st, 2017 at 12:57 PM.
It sounds like some "Customer unknown" (and not even _your_ customer) may one day yet show up at your door, looking for their heads. "More than Fair" could be construed as "Too Good To Be True - and that usually equals "It Ain't".
Sorry to get poop in your ice cream. If the machine shop guy had filed a mechanic's lien and "seized" them properly to satisfy the outstanding balance then they could have maybe been his to sell - your post didn't go into that detail.
All I asked was if the owner would come looking for them. He laughed and said "no, it's been more than a year and he sold his project".
I would never intentionally screw anyone but I would also never abandon a set of heads and expect them to still be there when I change my mind more than a year after they were ready to be picked up. And the machinist deserved to get his money out of them. I have no guilt over this. Hey, for once, I'M the one that got lucky, lol.
So I set out to do this build right and I feel I'm on the right track. The block cleaned up nicely at .030 over. The crank looks good but will get a polish. I'm having the block line honed and decked, leaving .015". I'm putting in the Wiseco pistons with molly rings and having the rods rebuilt. ARP rod and main bolts. And the rotating assembly will be balanced. Compression ratio should be right around 9.6 but that will depend on the head gaskets but shouldn't be any lower than 9.5:1. I scored an Edel aluminum intake from a CO member and with Copper's 512/512 cam, this motor should be a beast.
I'm at the end of my budget for now but I have all winter to gather the remaining parts and assemble and paint.
I'm very much enjoying this.
The used intake cleaned up pretty nice but some of the paint is really baked on; fused into the pores or something. I went three rounds with Aircraft Paint Remover and then hit the spots with a wire brush on a drill but they persist. I haven't researched yet but does anyone have a good experience with aluminum colored paint? VHT maybe?
The used intake cleaned up pretty nice but some of the paint is really baked on; fused into the pores or something. I went three rounds with Aircraft Paint Remover and then hit the spots with a wire brush on a drill but they persist. I haven't researched yet but does anyone have a good experience with aluminum colored paint? VHT maybe?
July 13th, 2017, 09:01 AM
