Ascadian

Hello,

Like promised in the Newbie forum. This is the link to the engine:



https://youtu.be/79u0yV_O_R8

Probably a rod knocking. I just hope for the best scenario. Otherwise i will be in need of a new engine.

oldcutlass

That sounds valve related.

don71

The most audible sound I can hear in the video sounds external. It could be a dozen things.
Flexplate broken or loose.
Exhaust-broken hanger-loose parking brake cable-
it could be debris in the inspection cover on the transmission.

Have you done any recent work on the car in the past couple of months? If so, go back to that area and re check everything.

BTW, I'm usually wrong on these type of questions when sound and video are included. Its still fun to try and guess though, good luck.

classicmuscle442

Hate to say it but that's a rod knock. Probably has an exhaust leak too.

wr1970

I am going with rod knock also.

droldsmorland

Oh ya...Rod knock...start with cutting open the oil filter just to verify. Pull the valve covers too as I have heard a busted trunion sound almost as deep as a rod. Its just good trouble shooting procedure. Hard to assess when not standing over it. My money is on a con rod. Out she comes.
Circle back with photos of the carnage when you pull it down so we all can put a visual with the audio.

MDchanic

You'll need to check more. Not hard to pull the valve covers.

Don't exclude the flexplate. You can't always see cracks in it until you have it off and in front of you.

If you don't find anything in those places, then just keep going...

- Eric

Ascadian

Found this in a cylinder. Took it out with an inspectioncamera.

Ascadian

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts

Ascadian

I have no idea what the metal could be. I put a new carb on. Maybe something dropped in? I found the metal because the gap of the sparkplug was closed.

oldcutlass

Well how does it run now?

Gary M

Hope you didn't run it long with all that in the cylinder. Look for damage in that cylinder , on the piston, and valves with your inspection camera. Any cracks or damage, fix it before it gets worse. I would run that camera down the intake with the carb back off and cover as much area as possible.

76olds

Heluva an ear off the cuff, post #2, Put-r-ther Eric !!

MDchanic

I'd be inclined to pull the head, just to satisfy myself that nothing was damaged, but if you wanted to just run it and keep a close watch over it for a while, I couldn't fault you.

Glad it wasn't something worse!

- Eric

wr1970

I think you still have a problem with that much metal being found in the cylinder.JMO

Gary M

If those pieces dropped into the intake, How do pieces that big make it past the valves into the cylinder without getting stuck or causing damage?

Option A- run it and hope you get lucky
Option B- take off the valve covers, intake, heads until you are sure you know you're golden.
Option C- run it and maybe find out something failed inside and is still damaging the motor until you need to rebuild it.

p.s option A has never happened to me.

76olds

Dam, those metal pieces aren't just shavings or metal thinning, wow they are chip loads as we would call it in a Tool & Die shop. Shrapnel!!

Ascadian

The 2nd picture is the metal piece of the first picture that i unraveled.
It's really thin material.

I think i am going the check down the intake with a camera. Knowing my luck it's going to be option "C" Gary.

I won't start her yet.

wr1970

Without knowing where the metal came from i wouldn't even think about option C. I think the damage may have been enough to warrant a tear down. You need to pull the oil filter and take the oil filter apart to look for metal shavings. If you find nothing check piston and cylinder for damage where metal was removed. You also need to pull rocker covers as was suggested by others. Once you done all of that then maybe option c fire up to see how it runs.JMO

m371961

Leak down and comp. test certainly. Maybe a piece of metal head gasket? Just guessing.

classicmuscle442

First metal picture looks like a chunk of a piston, x2 on not starting. That's a whole lot of metal. Definitely pull oil filter and check for bearing material.

Gary M

I would not run it again till it's been apart and problem found.

MDchanic

I'm still trying to figure out what this thing is.

Here we have a picture of it all balled up, which is what will happen to something that is not already compact:




And here is a picture of it "unwrapped":




And here is, I guess, one more "unwrapped" piece:




This looks to me like mild steel, in part because it was able to be unwrapped without cracking all to pieces.

I am having trouble thinking of what could be that size and made out of mild steel that could get into the cylinder (and past the valve).

Usually it's nuts, bolts, washers, or clips, but this does not look like any of these.
It doesn't look like a piece of a valve or a valve seat, and it doesn't look to me like a spark plug electrode.
Throttle butterflies are much bigger, and are brass or aluminum.

I'm just stumped as to what it is.

- Eric

wr1970

That looks like part of a valve spring!You know the dampner.

76olds

I have to agree with your mild steel hunch, cast pistons would chunk out similar to the first small pick, but I see it has a fold in it, which wouldn't make it a cast piece, unless annealed with the heat and then reformed internally, but still no crack?? Weird . The second pic looks almost like a turning but split sure looks like mild steel to me as well.
The third pic could be a piece of a stainless valve or spring covered in oil, hard to say.

Eric

wr1970

If the op would pull the rocker cover on the side where the pieces were found common to cylinder i think he would find some dampner damage. One of his valves is screwed up.JMO

MDchanic

Yeah, I like that. It does have that quality to it, though those are fairly hard steel, they're thin and blued, and could fold up like that.

Here's a photo, for those who can't picture the part in question:




Here's the problem, though: In order for that part to get into the cylinder, it would have to get past a valve guide, which it can't, unless the valve stem is completely gone, which would probably be noticed.

I am curious to see what's under his valve cover.

- Eric

76olds

I don't know much about an engine internally however I'm curious as well. Thanks for posting the picture in question Eric, I'm taking notes in the event I feel mechanically inclined in the near future.

Eric

oldcutlass

Like Eric, I can't see how an inner spring damper can get out past the valve cover, through the carb/ manifold/ intake valve, then into the cylinder. Unless it was done prior to the intake going on and fell into the valve port.

wr1970

I agree someone had to be doing some work on it for it to migrate. I am just guessing what it is. How it got there i dunno.

76olds

Hopefully ascadian will pull the valve cover off as many of you suggested and shine some more light on this.
Interesting thread.

Gary M

He only mentioned putting on a new carb. Didn't say if motor is fresh or old that I saw.

m371961

Unless the intake was changed and that is a piece of a metal intake gasket.
Curious minds gotta know!!!

seansolds

Does that carb have a divorced choke spring? Similar to this.

don71

You guys made some good guess's.

The what and how is a good mystery.

I got nuthin.

74sprint

If the engine has never come apart, timing chain is factory, and from the way the car is running I'd say that some of the nylon teeth are missing off the timing gear to make the knock. I lost some nylon teeth off the cam gear and everyone said it was rod knock, I even thought it was rod knock until I pulled the timing cover off. I would also pull the valve covers off, pull out all the spark plugs, and manually turn the engine over feeling for tight spots and watch the valves go up and down checking for bent sticking valves. I agree that the metal is either foriegn to the engine or metal intake gasket material. The metal unfolds but is not springy. Does the metal stick to a magnet?


Ray

Ascadian

Hi guys, I pulled the valve cover and took some pictures.

Ascadian

The metal sticks on a magnet. I pulled the oilfilter long ago and there was some debris in it. But not much. And not all of it was magnetic. Sadly I don't know the history of the engine.

MDchanic

Visually, they look fine.

Check the bearing surfaces of the rocker pivots when you take them off, and check the pushrods for bends.

Use egg cartons, cardboard boxes with holes made in them, or whatever you can devise to keep the valvetrain components in order as you remove them.

- Eric

MDchanic

Oh?? You didn't take any photos, did you? Was it lots of fine glitter?

That tends to be a bad sign.

- Eric