Satellitecentral

I,ve just been swapping out my Stock Intake Manifold on my 66 Dynamic 88 , to an Edelbroke Torker , after all the trouble I,ve had , reinventing Hoses, Brakets for A/C ,Alternator, Power steering pump etc , getting all new bolts sorted an cut, new Gasket , an suck , .
We fired it up a couple days ago, , Runs Great apart from the friking leaks , the Antifreez has been leaking out in a few places , an now it,s all gonna have to come off again

A buddy an myself , did the swap , and used all new stuff , Full Metal Vally Pan Gasket etc, and we were Insanely careful about everything fitting etc , just to find it leaks .
What a frikin BUMMER!!!

I,ve read someplace , after the fact off course , that Olds engines , dont like either Aluminium Intakes or heads , an I should have used some

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...6&autoview=sku

From Car Craft Magazine:

"Olds engines use a one-piece metal valley pan to seal the intake manifold to the heads; it doesnt work well with aluminum heads and intakes."

Has anyone else run in to this issue ?

jasoneswan

I used the turkey tray on my intake (performer RPM on SBO) did you put a good ring of RTV around the water ports? thats really important

Lady72nRob71

Bummer - sorry to hear all the trouble you are going through...
Good news is that this is a common issue with a known fix.

This article may shed some light on your situation...
http://tlentz.oldsgmail.com/howto.html#manifold

While the article refers mainly to the factory alum. intake on the 307, this may still be your issue due to reasons mentioned within.
As Jason pointed out, RTV is your friend here...

Take a break from it for a little while before diving back into it with a fresh mind.
It will get better.
Best of luck to you and let us know how it goes!

joe_padavano

X3 on the info above. I've used the factory metal gasket exclusively on all my Olds motors (iron and aluminum intakes) for nearly 40 years with no problems. Keep in mind that the factory used the metal gasket with the aluminum W-30, W-31, and 307 intakes. The CSM shows the use of RTV around the water ports on both sides of the gasket. Also, you cannot reuse this gasket. I assume you ensured that the little locating bosses were fully seated in the four bolt holes.

Oldsguy

I hate those things.

Satellitecentral

It just annoyed the crap out off me , after we were so dam careful ,
I,m getting over it now , just have to accept the fact that it has to re done .
The good news is if there is any is that , as I said , We don,t have to reinvent all the brackets etc, they do fit now properly.
I,m guessing it wont take that long now to tear it back down , now that we are familiar with where everything goes .

I think like one off you guys said
leave it alone for a few days , an go back with a clear mind

Lady72nRob71

Yes, do let the frustration pass. I find that some cold beers and loud classic rock help me out a lot right after I do something like that...
The next day i will go out, do it over, and all goes well.
It is a hazzard of the hobby I tell myself; a learning process...

Not having to redo the brackets is a huge plus, and you already know how it goes together and come apart; things should go well the next time around (with RTV and new gaskets in hand!)

At least you did not reassemble and install a transmission and find the main input shaft seal laying on the workbench...

citcapp

To help you through this is to know we have all been there and done that. I have both aluminum heads and intake on my 455 and used the RTV method on the endsn no rubber gaskets and it worked fine.

f-85

I like to use Permatex ultra grey. This stuff works great! Good luck with it.

hamm36

I would re-tork it down before taking it apart. 35 ft lbs.
start in the middle jump side to side, and work your way out both ways at the same time. Tighten them a little at a time, and repeat until 35 is reached on all bolts.
if you used sealer on both sides of the gasket, re-tork it.

Olds luvr

I had the same problem with my 350. Make sure when you have it off that you clean up all the old gasket and RTV. Like stated above use alot of RTV and make sure it is all lined up after it is cleaned up so you have good contact and seal..

Good luck

Satellitecentral

Have any off you guys tried these instad off the turky pan ?

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...6&autoview=sku

Satellitecentral

By the way
This is a quick video off me starting it a bit earlier today , ignor the false starts , the electric choke isent wired yet , an it was like 28 deg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i353WSDtrWo

Olds luvr

I actually got frustrated with the turkey pan and bought the felpro ones as I did not have the patience to get the dimples lined up and the manifold on without the pan moving so I got those to do one side at a time to get tacky enough to stay put

Satellitecentral

Thanks for the reply,
So was it a lot easier to do the Fel-pro Gaskets ?
And have you had any problems with them ?

Olds luvr

For me it was easier and I have not had any problems that I am aware of. I do not know what the pros and cons are to not using the tray. but for me the istall was easier. I would also check your oil and make sure that the coolant did not leak in the block and if it did and others can correct me if I am wrong but you will need to do few oil changes. Hope this helps

Olds64

You can also use the bottom part of the turkey tray as an oil shield with the high quality Fel Pro gaskets to seal the intake to the heads. This eliminates tinkering with the entire turkey traybut keeps the bottom part there as an oil shield. I used the stock turkey tray and got it to work after tinkering with it for awhile.

Satellitecentral

Thanks for all the info.
I was out running it 2 or 3 times again today , checked all the bolts an after adding some stop leak , it seems to have virtually stopped.
I know the stop leak is a Snake Oil measure , and my new gaskets arrived today anyway.

We are pulling it again no matter what , but just in the mean time , i wanted to see if it would stop.
I have some other things I have to address anyway,
I pulled the Gas Pedal an all it,s silly linkage out , and will be fitting a new Pedal , with a Cable , dont like linkages :-)
I think cause this Car has a Switch Pitch Trans , I,ll be inventing a toggle or another dip switch on the floor to control it , as the kick down switch is now gone

I just want to be able to drive it across town to a Friends Shop , who is going to Re Do all the Brakes, and Bushings on the front
I would LIKE it to stop , lol
From a 2 BBL with Stock Intake to a 4 BL with a Torker

I have been checking the oil , every day , and after each run , for water , but so far there is no sign at all , off any contamination ,
not that it matters , it,ll be coming apart again in a week or two anyway , it,s been a bit to chilly outside to do a strip down .

Not to change subject , but has anyone done a Brake Swap/Upgrade to disc,s on this type off Car 66 Dynamic ?

Satellitecentral

Oh , an by the way , does anyone like/hate my Reinvented Air Cleaner assembly ?

hamm36

I use a FelPro set and the lefter cover from Mondello(?). You will still need to tork it down, and the directions for sealer was not to tighten all at once, but to let it sit for a few minutes and then tork to specks. The install was not that bad, but it took for ever to get RTV on both sides of the four peaces.

The cover looked great.

Redog

I used the Felt-Pro Metal gaskets. NO RTV needed, but you need it on the rubber thingy on the front and rear of the engine. That's where I had problems.

Don't use that valley pan gasket either. Get a Upper Windage tray, put it in and be done

Satellitecentral

I found a decent picture off the Air Cleaner set up

mcutlass1969

Below Olds64 mentions just using the lower half of the turkey tray as a sheild. Do you just wedge it into place below the lips of the heads. I have a 456 with the aluminum heads and intake and have been battling these leaks through 3 intake pulls. If the felpro way is to go what is the ramifications of the hot oil getting on the bottom of the intake?

tonycpe

take the turkey tray and cut of all of the metal at the ports then use the felpro to seal the ports

If i remember correctly i kept the 4 locating holes on the turkey tray. took a couple hours to do .

By the way doesn't anyone use gasgacinch?

Warhead

Loper's here in Phx, Az sells the same paper style gasket as you show from Summit for 16.95 a set.
Google it.
Put sealer on anything water is contained in (water crossovers-I like permatex, and Indian head).
Jim

wolfman98

I ALWAYS KEEP ALL THE COLORS HANDY ,GREY , RED, BLUE FOR DIFFERENT JOBS OF COURSE

Satellitecentral

Just a quick , silly question
Where the hell is the oil filter on this 425 , lol

citcapp

Passenger side rear under the exhaust manifold. Hard to see from the top. You have to look under the car

71 delta88guy

rtv has come a long way since the -awful pathetic junk -blue rtv. Now we have ultra blue,grey etc. All far superior to blue. I am not a fan of the factory gasket but with the others posting their successes with it who is to say which is best. I have always used the 4 piece-not using the end pieces in lue of the ultra grey or better still the ford diesel rtv used for the oil pans for the 7.3. Just don't use the OLD OLD blue rtv. It should not be sold anymore. Good luck hope your leakfree soon.

Satellitecentral

OK,
Its been a few weeks since we did the intake swap,
after re tightening a few bolts on the intake , using 2 gaskets on the water neck,
getting the new Lokar Gas pedal an throttle cable installed , adding some stop leak(not a fan off that) , but I seem to have zero leaks.

I have been checking the oil constantly, on the dip stick, looking for coolant contamination/condensation etc, and have found none, I,ve driven the car on a few short test drives, 5/10 miles at a time, but I want to change the oil an filter mainly to see for sure i,m not getting any coolant in the oil.

I have the felpro gaskets here in case i need them , but everything seems fine , i i have to pull the intake an use the felpros i will , but at the min , it seems not necessary

I have a bit off an issue with the gas pedal , i,m not getting WOT yet, i,m going to have to shim it up off the floor with an angle piece off solid plastic i,m cutting to allow the pedal to get a little more movement to get WOT

I also have to change the cable to a shorter one, the one i bought was a 36 inch , an its a good bit to long , so i just got the 24 inch one in the mail today, this should help , an look a lot more tidy.

Have to work out a kickdown set up on the car, mine is a 66 with a Variable Pitch , electrically operated , so i guess i,ll have to use a toggle switch , or as my boss suggested a headlight dimmer floor switch mounted near the gas pedal.

Still thinking about it .......
I,ll keep posting with updates

Satellitecentral

Oh yeah
I have a set off after market gauges installed now , Water temp/Voltage, an Oil Pressure ,
Whats a decent Normal oil pressure reading for this 425 BB ?

88 coupe

Bruce Roe used to make an electronic/vacuum switch, that should work.

Try bcroe@juno.com to see if they are still available.

Norm

Lady72nRob71

Glad to hear you are leak free now! Why two water outlet gaskets?
I am not a fan of that stop-leak stuff, but GM has even recommended it in select later model cars and even requires it in some, like in my '97 Caddy. It lists using it in the '97's factory service manuals! Although it has a GM part #, i heard it was the same stuff as Bar's Stop Leak pellets you get anywhere...

Satellitecentral

Used 2 water outlet gaskets because , the oulet leaked , probably because , either the Torker , or the aftermarket Chrome neck wasent properly flat.
Another thing I,ll deal with down the road a bit
At the min its sealed an dont leak , Thank GOD !!!

Steve O

An easy way to tell if there is water/coolant in the oil is to let the car sit overnight... Slowly crack the drain plug and if there's water in there it will come out first...

DAN76

I've just installed an Edelbrock Performer intake on my 425 Super Rocket.

When I took out the original manifold, I found it was sealed in by the "Vally Pan" without any trace of sealant apart from at the top and bottom ends where the rubber strips sit.

I had previously purchased a gasket kit from SUMMIT but when compared to the openings of the intake and heads, there appears to be a hole missing. The centre holes on each side of the manifold, which appear to be a crossflow, are not catered for on this gasket and there are just 6 bores on each side instead of 7. Is this correct?

Assuming I had the wrong gasket and as an immediate solution, i just re-used the Vally Pan and plenty of Gasket Glue. Haven't started the engine yet as it needs finishing off but will let you know if it springs any leaks.

As for brackets, there was no need for any fabrication and everything fitted straight on (well the alternator bracket needed some persuasion but a hammer did the trick).

joe_padavano

The center holes are for the exhaust crossover. This is a passageway that is used to route exhaust gas under the carb to assist in warmup of a cold motor. A common hot rod trick is to block this crossover to let the carb run a little cooler for a denser intake charge at the expense of rough running when the engine is cold. The aftermarket gasket set should have also come with a couple of small stainless steel shims that should have also been used to block the ports on the head to prevent burning through the gasket.

It is not advisable to reuse the factory valley pan, as the embossed ridges around each port are what provides the seal. Once the gasket is used, the ridges become compressed. There's a lot of debate on the use of the factory gasket vs. aftermarket. Personally I prefer the factory part, even with aftermarket aluminum intakes.

DAN76

mmmmmm, in that case I will expect that a re-fit is probably on the cards!


I had a fair bit of oil in and around the pushrods, under the Vally Pan. Is this common?

Also, can the long oil filler tube be removed?
I managed to manouver the intake around it but wasn't ideal as it went in at an angle instead of setting straight down.

joe_padavano

Yes, oil in the lifter valley is common. The oil fill tube comes out with lots of swearing, usually involving damaging the tube in the process (it's pressed in). On the big block Olds, it's usually necessary to pull the distributor to swap the intake. At least, it does make life much easier. Of course, the distributor is often stuck in the block as well...