prrc

Hi Guys, I need your help. We have a customers car in our shop a 1962 starfire. Seems to be a very nice car. The 394 is on its last leg so he's wanting to swap motors and have us install a over drive trans in the car.
So my question is this. Is the 394 worth saving? is there any aftermarket parts available for the 394? or should we be looking for a 455. Will a 700R bolt up to the 455 or is there a source for a adaptor plate to mate the 2 together.Any light you guys can shed on this would save me a lot of time searching for the info we need. We are open to suggestions and the purchase of a motor.or advice on the 394.
Thanks in advance
Tim & Jim
Paradise Road Rod & Custom
Indianapolis, IN
317 541-9590

88 coupe

Welcome to the site.

http://www.transmissionadapters.com/Pricing.htm
http://www.forwhatyouneed.com/transm...conversion.htm

If it is rebuildable, Yes.

By aftermarket, do you mean for modifications? If so, not many.

Or do you mean rebuild kits/parts? If so, they are readily available for both the engine and trans.

Depends on the owners needs. Is he/she concerned with the cars value? Is he/she looking for more power? Fuel economy? Will it be used as a daily driver?

In can be adapted, but 2004R is a better choice. Any competent trans shop can modify either trans to handle the extra torque of the 394 or 455.

My question is, does the owner know, that Starfire is not "just" another Oldsmobile?

Norm

prrc

Hi Norm , Thanks for the info. The 62 is pretty much stock except for paint. the 394 is pretty tired and the owner wants a mild street motor. So thanks for the heads up. I figured there wasnt much out there for the 394 but it didnt hurt to ask. The 200R is a good choice, But were prefer the 700 for a car that heavy. The low first gear works well in them.
Thanks for the trans adaptor link. That sure saves us alot of time.
The owner would like to keep the car stock appearing. So we are trrying to find a clean swap.and without damaging the car. So if some day he would like to return it to stock form it will be easy to do.
Thanks for the help.
Tim

88 coupe

"Mild" is a subjective term. A 394, rebuilt by a competent machinist, an advance curve to match, a properly jetted carb, and optimum gears for the application, will surprise most people.

That low first gear was originally for use behind low powered Chevs. High torque engines are most efficient when they are given enough work to do.

Brackets need to be fabricated to match the 455 mounts to the '62 frame, along with a new crossmember to match the late mount, at the rear of the trans. I bolted all three of mine ( a '50 but very similar) to the frame, in case I wanted to go back.

Drive shaft will likely need to be shortened, the yoke changed. Radiator outlet needs to be moved to the right side.

Norm

f-85

there is also an adapter that will let you bolt a th350 onto the 394 if you decide to rebuild.
http://www.transmissionadapters.com/

Olds64

You will have to use this universal crossmember to get the 455 into that car.

http://www.tdperformance.com/categories/?id=3289&rsku=0

rocketraider

Heh- a 700 will make the owner think his original Slim Jim is still in there, with that deep first and outrageously wide 1-2 gear spacing. I also think the 200 is a better choice because Starfires have 3.42 gearing and don't really need that deep a first gear.

Other things that will have to be considered are whether such a swap will require surgery on the trans tunnel for the later transmission to fit. If so, find a 61-64 Pontiac Bonneville or Star Chief and cut and paste the trans tunnel to the Olds floor. They used what they called "Super HydraMatic" which is about the same trans as the 56-60 Olds Jetaway and will give more working room. THEN you get into fitting the console to the larger tunnel. Lot more to consider with this car than first meets the eye.


Bottom line is, time he's gone thru all that he could have rebuilt the 394 and Slim Jim for same or less money.

Yup. Ask the Mustang punk who was naive enough to try my blue 64 Starfire one night, and who got his mouthy teenage *** spanked by a big car with whitewalls and wire wheel covers, in front of all of his buddies.

prrc

Thanks for your input guys. I agree the 394 would be a much better option just being rebuild. What was the standard HP for the 394 ?
Thanks for the link to the cross member. We do all our own Fab work in house so the cross member is no problem. Hes pretty much stuck on the trans swap. So we will have to deal with that. My need to use a shifter conversion kit from a chevelle to retain the ouginal shifter and have it gated right for the OD trans.
Thanks For your help. I will keep you posted on how this all works out.
Tim

88 coupe

Good thing, because that adapter is for Chev mounts.

Looking forward to seeing pix, if you can.

Norm

daves62

Hummph
least its not a 350

citcapp

Interesting trans swap show some pictures on how you handle the tunnel and the shifter

Olds64

Don't forget that you will have to modify the drive shaft to fit the new transmission. This is something that could be easily overlooked.

prrc

Thanks, We had figured the drive shaft in our quote. We will keep you posted

KQQLCAT

Call Bendstends transmission in Minnesota. They have done this many times.
http://www.transmissionadapters.com/index.htm

Pat

64Rocket

Norm,
http://www.tdperformance.com/products/?id=3296

Did you see part number #9591

Gene

88 coupe

No, it was not in the link I referred to.

Norm

64Rocket

Norm,
I guess you did not click on the link then.

Gene

88 coupe

Are they not Chev mounts?

Norm

f-85

You do know that the 2004r are weak transmissions. Good gear ratio, but If not built up real strong they will not hold up to abuse behind a big block.

rocketraider

Like a 700 in stock form is going to be any better? I'll give it to it, it might fit the tunnel without cutting it up.

My personal preference would be a 400 or built 350/375B, or even a Jetaway HydraMatic, but if he wants overdrive, it's going to take the same amount of work and time to do one as the other.

Shame you can't find old-timers who understand and can build Slim Jims anymore. I can't say that I understand why Oldsmobile stuck with it thru thick and thin, when Pontiac realised early on it wasn't going to be adequate for their long wheelbase big cars, and Cadillac would simply have nothing to do with it.

f-85

Actually yes the 700 is stronger in stock form. (but i didnt take any chances and got a built one) LOL It was just to much money for me to have a 200 done. But like i said i do like the gearing in the 200 better. If i had lots of money i would have had a 200 built, but since i dont. I did the 700.

f-85

I just sold my 64 Super 88 to my buddy. Thats something we where talking about. He likes the 394 and wants to keep it. But like me he doesnt have the cash to spend on the adapter crap to convert the mounting. What do you think about the old Hydromatic? What would be the difference to the slim jim?

64Rocket

Norm,
When you click on the link "Olds64" provided and the pic you showed, it gave you the link for the Olds. Looks like you didn't go that far.
Gene

f-85

How dare you question NORM! If norm says it for a Chevy then its for a Chevy!

prrc

Thanks for the info guys, Here's were we are with this car. After getting up on the lift today. The trans swap will require some major surgery as there is no room for the bell house to clear the trans tunnel. I'm not sure this is really the best solution to this customers needs. Any recommendations on rebuilding the Slim Jim trans. Anyone had any luck dealer with anyone to rebuild the trans? I just hate to cut up a nice car like this.
Thanks Tim

prrc

Ok, Just a quick update. Just got off the phone with Dave. At Coleman transmission(A sponsor of this board) and they seem to know and have delt with this trans in the past. Anyone ever use them? Past experience? good or bad?

Thanks Tim

rocketraider

I smell a 62 Starfire coming up for sale...

Olds64

If you want rebuild parts for the Slim Jim check out Fatsco Transmissions.

http://www.fatsco.com/

IMHO, the Slim Jim isn't worth rebuilding. I owned a 64 98 with the Slim Jim. It wasn't a very "fun" car because it alway had transmission problems.

64Rocket

Here is one already done.
Gene
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/pts/1052620843.html

prrc

OK Guys here's a little up date, The motor and trans are both staying in the car. The Trans is on its way to A-1 Automotive for a rebuild. Thanks to one of your own Charles Tuma for suggesting A-1.
At some point a aftermarket A/C unit was fitted to the motor and is in great disrepair, So that's going.
Here's were I hope someone from here can help once again, We need the Generator brackets for the right head. Anyone have the brackets? And how about valve cover color? The ones on the motor are original but painted a dark cast grey. from what I can tell they should be a light silver or chrome? maybe some people have just chromed there's, not sure on that part. air cleaner? the customer is bringing the original. should it be black? I have seen them chromed as well.
Thanks for your help. I will post some pics if we can do that on this forum.

Tim

Paradise Road Rod & Custom

trdbrd

Yes they will, they came in the Buick Ttype & GN I have a handfull of friends in the 10's with them. I run one on my 67 Firebird behind a 498 Pontiac that makes over 650/650 on the motor, I also run a 300 shot to bring it to just under 1000. This car weighs in at 3600, not light not heavy. I dont use the juice on launch or in OD just the same this trans has done me well. It does have a transbrake also, can you say wheels up ,bumper on the ground. It is far from stock but it still has the auto shift feature that most transbrake transmissions do not allow. I know that a BRF code 2004R with some basic mods can take what most 455's have to offer, I ran one in this same car when it was a slow 11.50 car with a mild 455 pontiac.

rocketraider

Good move. The Kaspers are as good HydraMatic guys as they come. Wasn't sure where you were is why I hadn't suggested them before, but they'll get it right and work you thru the setup and adjustments.

Just remember it may be iffy fitting a modern aftermarket system to this engine if the customer is determined to have it. EVERYTHING will have to be custom built. Might be able to adapt a Sanden compressor to OE type A5/A6 brackets.

Common to any early 62 GENERATOR equipped big Olds. Alternators came on board for factory A/C cars late in the year.

1962 4-barrel Ultra High Compression engines in Super 88, Ninety Eight and Starfire should have chrome: valve covers, aircleaner assembly, and road draft tube (except California PCV system).

justinj

My father-in-law's 62 Super 88 didn't come with that chrome. It was all aluminum colored paint from the factory. Car was manufactured here in Canada, though so might be different in the US. It was the 4 bbl, high compression 394.

-Justin

daves62

The 62 starfires came with chrome v/c, air cleaner and oil tube filler caps.

prrc

Well guys the motor and trans are back in the car. It has an Edelbrock carb on it and the linkage bolted to it. The shift points are all messed up. Tom gave me suggestions to get it straighted out but not much success today. the 1/2 shifts are way to high and after it shifts to 2nd it will not down shift so when you come to a light it kills the motor.
Tom and I suspect the linkage is the bighest problem. Can anyone supply a good clear picture of the original linkage set up so I can see whats missing. you can send it to
paradiseroadrc@sbcglobal.net

Thanks Tim / Jim

rocketraider

With that AFB on there, you'll have to fiddle with the carb and TV linkage to get it adjusted right. This thread may help with a critical adjustment dimension.

http://forums.aaca.org/ubbthreads.ph..._adjust#UNREAD

And once again you'll find Tom Kasper's name mentioned.

88 coupe

For the linkage to work properly, the ratio and the start/end positions must not be changed.

Set the original carb on a flat surface.

Measure the distance from the Center Line of the throttle shaft to the C/L of the mounting hole for the TV rod. Draw a line between the two C/Ls.

With the carb fully open, find the angle of the line in relation to the flat surface.

Set the new carb on the same surface. Drill a new hole at the same distance, and the same angle, in the new carb.

Norm

prrc

Thanks Norm , But the Edelbrock was on the car when it came in. We don't have the original carb. I'm sure the linkage was the death of the last trans. I'm just looking for a starting point. As this think has become a nightmare.

prrc

Thanks for the link. We had already read that one. But its not much use to us being we don't have the original carb on there.
Thanks Tim

KQQLCAT

Do you have the original linkage from the pivot on the manifold? If not you will have to get it.
Pat