When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
The bearing clearances, bores, journal diameters, and a host of other required rebuild info is in a table at the end of chapter 6B in the Chassis Service Manual. If you don't have one, you should. Always try to work from factory sourced if possible, since third party info may or may not be correct (especially when it's from the interwebs... )
The bearing clearances, bores, journal diameters, and a host of other required rebuild info is in a table at the end of chapter 6B in the Chassis Service Manual. If you don't have one, you should. Always try to work from factory sourced if possible, since third party info may or may not be correct (especially when it's from the interwebs... )
Yeah, i have a 1971 CSM, my fault, after looking twice, i found the main bore and Rod Bore specs in it.
Interesting on Dale's take on the thrust button, not being needed with a roller cam. I wonder why everyone else recommends it? It looks like you found a nice core. Talk to an Olds builder you trust on clearance, there are many more 455 failures than 350's. It looks like Speed pistons are half the price of everything else through Summit, including their cast pistons. Good luck on your build.
i said a special one isn’t need on factory style rollers because the oil pump and distributor load pull the cam into the block. I’ve pulled apart factory rollers where the spring on the thrust bumper was missing…it didn’t cause any problems.
roller apps that that use a dry sump and crank trigger is where you get the most cam walk and a forward bump stop is needed
i said a special one isn’t need on factory style rollers because the oil pump and distributor load pull the cam into the block. I’ve pulled apart factory rollers where the spring on the thrust bumper was missing…it didn’t cause any problems.
roller apps that that use a dry sump and crank trigger is where you get the most cam walk and a forward bump stop is needed
Ok, thanks for sharing your expierience!
I was always thinking that the "chamfered" form of flat tapped lobes is, what forces a camshaft backwards the most, not just the distributor gear!
Personally, i would prefer the bronze plate as a cam retainer for a roller cam the most. For me, this looks like the cleanest/safest solution.
But, since i dont have my own expierience in this topic, i apprechiate to get any thoughts about it!
I looked at different "modern" pistons, and it seems like the Icon/KB IC886, maybe .030 over, would be a very good piston. What bothers me is, for sure, the price.
OR Keith Black 277 Hypereuthetic?
OR Wiseco PTS537A3? They seem like a good deal, since the come with Rings.
Are there other recommendations beside Speed Pros?
Maybe the best combination would be my N-crank, eagle rods and the IC886 Pistons, but im really not sure if its a good deal for my goal, simply because of the price.
Is bushing stock rods for floating pins a common thing to do? The IC886 come with Pins and Spiro-locks, so IF i would purchase them or a different "modern" piston set, i really want a floating pin. I always have to decide if buying parts that are "ready" out of the box like eagle rods will be cheaper/better in the end than for example having stock rods bushed.
Im sure, stock rods are more than good enough for my goal, since i heard/read that many people are racing them. What counts for me, is to find the "easiest/best" way to go, depending on keeping machining costs, shipping costs, taxes and so on as low as possible to get the best possible result and thats not that easy, specially living in europe .
Last edited by 71OldscutlassS; January 3rd, 2023 at 03:32 AM.
I looked at different "modern" pistons, and it seems like the Icon/KB IC886, maybe .030 over, would be a very good piston. What bothers me is, for sure, the price.
OR Keith Black 277 Hypereuthetic?
OR Wiseco PTS537A3? They seem like a good deal, since the come with Rings.
Are there other recommendations beside Speed Pros?
Maybe the best combination would be my N-crank, eagle rods and the IC886 Pistons, but im really not sure if its a good deal for my goal, simply because of the price.
Is bushing stock rods for floating pins a common thing to do? The IC886 come with Pins and Spiro-locks, so IF i would purchase them or a different "modern" piston set, i really want a floating pin. I always have to decide if buying parts that are "ready" out of the box like eagle rods will be cheaper/better in the end than for example having stock rods bushed.
Im sure, stock rods are more than good enough for my goal, since i heard/read that many people are racing them. What counts for me, is to find the "easiest/best" way to go, depending on keeping machining costs, shipping costs, taxes and so on as low as possible to get the best possible result and thats not that easy, specially living in europe .
Bushing of connecting rods is very common here! Almost all trucks have bushed pin bores as well so you should be able to get that done where you are.. Have you removed a piston from a rod yet and weighed it? What size pins do those pistons have?
Bushing of connecting rods is very common here! Almost all trucks have bushed pin bores as well so you should be able to get that done where you are.. Have you removed a piston from a rod yet and weighed it? What size pins do those pistons have?
I think it should be no problem to get the stock rods bushed here too. The question is just for how much. Machine work is pretty expensive here, and if its 200-300€ to get them bushed, i have to think if im going with eagle Rods, since this would be the ~ half the price of them. I have to get the whole rotating assembly rebalanced anyways when going to lighter pistons, so it makes not much of a difference.
No, pistons are still on the rods. I have to press them off still.
Are there some things to know for pressing them off? Should the Pin-end be slightly heated for pressing the Pins out? Or just press them out?
I know, best would be a fixture to support the rod itself, so that i dont have to press on the pistons to get the Pins out. But i assume that the stock pistons arent worth to safe?
I would like to press them off without damaging them. Maybe i can fabricate a fixture.
Today, i torqued all Rod bearing caps to 42 ft.lbs (CSM spec), cleaned the bores and measured each rod in 'around-the-clock' positions with my (quality) digital caliper to check for roundness.
Every measurement-results came out to 2.6245" - 2.625".
CSM says 2.6243" - 2.625" so i guess the big ends of my stock rods are fine.
Today i took a look on my C Heads valve guides. I measured the inner diameter to get some idea how good or how worn they already are.
Theyre all around .344-.347. Exhaust guides seem to be a bit more worn (or SHOULD be a small amount larger) than the intake guides. Replacement valves are mostly .042 what ive seen and CSM clearances are .0010-.0027 for Intake and .0015-.0032 for exhaust. Maybe i have to get the guides replaced.
BTW, which Brand for Valves is mostly recommended? Are the Valves available on Rockauto like Melling or Qualcast (never heard of that brand) good to go?
I found a set of bronze valve guides i bought some time ago lying in my garage:
As i already have them, im thinking about taking these for replacement. I heard different opinions on bronze guides. Some people claim theyre just for racing applications and not good for street use because of durability, some others claim bronze guides are a forever repair.
Whats youre all opinions on that?
Thanks a lot for the help!
Last edited by 71OldscutlassS; January 6th, 2023 at 10:01 AM.
I decided to go with a standard Volume Melling M-22F oil pump + new pickup and new drive shaft.
For main bearings, i purchased the Mahle-clevite in standard size, since the main journals of my crank are all well in spec range. They will get just polished for a slight clean-up. I havent ordered the rod bearings yet, because it seems the rod journals are worn slightly more (still in CSM spec range), and i want to verify the specs again after polishing.
Because i really like learning stuff by doing, I think about trying polishing the crank by myself, just for a slight clean-up/surfacing of the journals. Ive seen some videos where people show how its done with fine grit abrasive paper and shoe laces and it seems like this method is working very well.
Lucky, I have a junk crank lying around where i can practise before polishinh my 455 N-Crank.
Last edited by 71OldscutlassS; January 10th, 2023 at 08:04 AM.
Im currently searching for a set of new valves for my C-Heads. Intake is the small 2.000" size.
I looked at rockauto, but it seems the 2.000" from melling are not available anymore.
The heads will get new guides too, so i want to have the new valves here to bring everything together to the machine shop.
still not sure which guides to use. Cast iron or bronze.
What is a good brand for valves and where to purchase them?
my stock valves seem to have 45° seat angle. I found some on ebay with 30° seat angle. Whats the difference here? Is just the seat cutted to 30° angle if using 30° valves?
I guess i dont need fancy stainless valves like Ferrea or similar. Also, im not sure if its worth to go for the 2.072" intake valves instead of the 2.000" on a street engine.
Old TRW Catalog for reference #'s Valves with the same head size fit just about every size engine 350 to 455 Olds put them in some have about a .012" difference in length but still work fine with adjustable rockers. Old TRW rest of engine #'s for reference A lot of cross reference numbers here from different manufacturers for the intake valve. You should be able to find a lot of reasonable stock replacement parts on EBAY which should work fine for you. I don't believe you are going to be revving to 5000 rpm's very often or will need to. You won't need the larger Intake and you want to stay with 45* seats for sure. The machine shop should most likely have a Serdi or similar type head machine and can do the guides and a 3 angle valve job with a 15* top cut, 44* seat and 55* to 60* bottom cut, then you can clean up the bowl area. You don't need to go crazy just as close to the same in each bowl. I will talk to a couple of engine builders I know about which guides to use.
Last edited by drolds442w30; January 23rd, 2023 at 05:52 PM.
Reason: Add some information
Old TRW Catalog for reference #'s Valves with the same head size fit just about every size engine 350 to 455 Olds put them in some have about a .012" difference in length but still work fine with adjustable rockers. Old TRW rest of engine #'s for reference A lot of cross reference numbers here from different manufacturers for the intake valve. You should be able to find a lot of reasonable stock replacement parts on EBAY which should work fine for you. I don't believe you are going to be revving to 5000 rpm's very often or will need to. You won't need the larger Intake and you want to stay with 45* seats for sure. The machine shop should most likely have a Serdi or similar type head machine and can do the guides and a 3 angle valve job with a 15* top cut, 44* seat and 55* to 60* bottom cut, then you can clean up the bowl area. You don't need to go crazy just as close to the same in each bowl. I will talk to a couple of engine builders I know about which guides to use.
Thanks a LOT for the information!!
So i guess ill stay with th 2.000" intakes.
When i rebuilt my SBO's #7a Heads, i used Melling V1457 as Intake Valves. I was already thinking about to disassemble them and use the intake valves in my C heads, since im not sure if i will ever need them again. Unfortunately, theyre not available on Rockauto anymore.
I found 2.000" SBI Valves on Ebay, 8 pieces would cost me about 195€ till they would be here, very pricey, since i need 8 exhaust valves too. But im sure i will find a good deal.
I will talk to a machine shop as soon i sove the valves here.
Again, thanks a lot for the help!
EDIT:
After some more research on ebay, it seems like the 2.072" ' s are cheaper, i guess more people buy them. Also, offerings as whole kits (all 8 intake and all 8exhaust valves) are mostly the 2.072".
Havent found a whole set of 8 pcs. 2.000" Int. and 8 pcs. 1.624" exh. :/
Last edited by 71OldscutlassS; January 24th, 2023 at 03:45 AM.
Go for the 2.072" intake valve. There is a reason, even factory performance motors went with the larger intake valve. Olds heads don't flow a lot of air, a bigger valve and bowl hog will help.
Go for the 2.072" intake valve. There is a reason, even factory performance motors went with the larger intake valve. Olds heads don't flow a lot of air, a bigger valve and bowl hog will help.
this could be true, makes sense when even the factory used the larger valves in 442's.
Maybe this could be the better way, since it seems that the 2.072" are better available.
January 1st, 2023, 06:28 AM
.
