allyolds68

How big a job is it? I'm guessing everything comes off the front of the motor but I don't need to drop the oil pan. I assume I have to be ready to put a new sealing surface on it from the threads I've researched. The motor only has maybe 5k miles on it so this isn't going to turn into a bunch of MAW's.

It's not a bad leak (I don't even lose a quart in 3K miles) but I hate a messy underside of my car.

pogo69

crankshaft seal or the bottom cover seal

MDchanic

For the front crank seal, you could theoretically just pull the balancer, yank the seal, and tap in a new seal, but, of course, you'd need clearance to pull the balancer. With the fan, shroud, and radiator out, working from underneath, you may be able to do it.

- Eric

allyolds68

Crankshaft seal



Eric,


I'll have to look again. I don't know if I could get a seal removal tool in there (although I don't have one). Pulling the radiator isn't a big deal, just a little messy.

Octania

Tool?
drill a hole in the old seal's face
screw in a metal screw
pull on the screw to remove the seal

allyolds68

I might have to get me one of these:

pogo69

you may also need a repair sleeve for the balancer and an installation tool unless you can get the key out then slide the balancer back over the snout then reinstall the key...and of course you have to be careful not to disturb the timing

Octania

totally bitchin!

Less time than it would take to find the drill bit and screw.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Lisle...item4ac6afed28

see also
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Snap-On-S612...item4867096efa

allyolds68

I agree you have to get the key out to reinstall the seal and the possible repair sleeve but the key stops before the seal, correct? And the balancer stops before the new sealing surface. I don't understand needing a repair sleeve for the balancer. How could taking this apart affect the timing? I'm not taking the timing chain out and the balancer can only go back one way. Am I missing something?

pogo69

no not really likely but the cam gear can move without the key and if turning the crank for whatever reason will cause a problem

MDchanic

Guys, I don't have a disassembled engine in front of me, and may be wrong about this, but why are we talking about removing the key?

When you pull the balancer, the key usually remains behind in the keyway.
When you install the balancer, you install the key first.

The key has nothing to do with the front crank seal, and is unlikely to be dislodged or messed up by removing and reinstalling the balancer or the seal.


Yes, you are.

The end of the crank has a keyway in it.
The key sets in the keyway, and the lower timing sprocket slips over the end of the crank and engages the key, thus maintaining timing.
Then the balancer slips over the end of the crank, with the keyway in its own bore engaging the key, thus maintaining alignment of the timing marks.

The inner bore of the balancer slips over the end of the crank and the key, completely covering them, and keeping the lower sprocket from moving forward on the crank.
The outer part of the balancer is all the way in the hole, and the seal rides on the outer part of the balancer, where is can sometimes wear a groove.

None of this has anything to do with the key or the keyways.

- Eric

allyolds68

Eric,


Thanks. If the balancer has the sealing surface on it then I should just have to remove the balancer to get the seal out (and all the other crap that has to get out of the way). I looked at it quick this morning at 5:30 and for some reason I thought some portion of the crank was what rode on the seal.


Pogo, now I understand why I'd have to put a new sealing surface on the balancer and I assume it's possible you could drag the key out with the balancer





Thanks,

MDchanic

Exactly.

pogo69

the only point i was making is with the key removed there is sometimes enough clearance to slide the balancer back on then drive the key back in if the key is on then the balancer most likely wont go back on without some type of installation tool or a longer crank bolt to start it ...or i could just be crazy

MDchanic

I dunno. I always just slipped the balancer over the end of the crank with the key installed (kind of hard to set up the timing with the key out), and got it pretty darned close to bottoming, then just pulled it in the rest of the way with the bolt.
They are all different, though.

- Eric

allyolds68

So as much as I don't want to get into spending money I think I'm going to replace the 44 year old year old balancer. Is there any real reason to spend over $100 on a balancer for a street car?

These two have timing marks to 60 degrees which would save me buying a dial back timing light and I could return my neighbor's dial back light that I borrowed 8 months ago.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pfs-80022

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sca-d-80022


What's the difference between internal and external balanced for these cheapies?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb-594-158

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb-594-117

pogo69

you probably have the external balanced one... remember these things come from china so the inside diameter is pretty critical you can have your original one rebuilt as an option

very inexpensive china is risky higher priced china is probably ok

VinMichael

yours is probably just fine. you seem to be getting a case of "might-as-wells"

'oh since ive done this, might as well do that, and since im doing that, etc. etc.'

Pretty soon you've spent way more than you ever intended and maybe even messed it up worse

Fun71

If you keep your original balancer, make your own timing marks.
Measure around the balancer to get the circumference.
Divide the circumference by 360 to get the number of inches per degree, or
divide by 36 to get the number if inches per 10 degrees.
Use the number you get to mark a line on the balancer every 10 degrees.

I used white paint and made a mark every 10º up to 40º. Now I can use the 30º line along with my timing tab, which has marks every 2º, to get accurate full advance readings in the 30-40 degree range.