VI Cutty

Starting to put together a plan for my 455 build and looking for input from the knowledgable and experienced members here! I've been crawling through the Big Blocks threads and gleaning what I can but I still have questions.

The engine will be going in my '70 Cutlass and I'm aiming for something streetable...it's not likely to see track use but undoubtedly some stop light racing. I have the entire driveline (engine, Th400 (longtail), driveshaft and limited slip rear end) from an unknown donor car, previously installed by someone else in another '70 Cutlass. I think the engine is a 69 but not certain as the VIN derivative isn't readable.

I'm debating a 4 speed conversion at some point. I don't have the components yet, although I have a line on an M21 from one friend and possibly the pedals, zbar and some of the other components from another. I'm starting to get the feeling the engine is going to blow through the budget faster than I would have liked, so the 4 speed dream may have to wait for another day.

I don't currently know what gears are in the rear end (I have 2 to choose from) but will determine that soon.

The engine I've mentioned will most likely to be used for the build, and I have other complete 455s from 71 and 75 full size cars. This engine ran well when the car was parked about 16ish years ago, and still turned over easily by hand when I got it a couple years back. It has C heads, a Torker intake and the rest appears to be stock.

I have another set of C heads I plan to use. These ones had some work done by a local Olds "guru" who spent some time learning head work from Joe Mondello back in the day. I haven't measured the chambers or determined what exactly has been done, but I plan to get together with the guy to find out what's been done.

While I'm starting out saying it's a fairly stock build, I have a feeling that might slip somewhat...but a lot will depend on costs. I don't have specific HP or Torque goals although I don't really want to get into the range of having to spend big bucks strengthening the rest of the driveline. I know my budget won't let me go wild, but it isn't going to force me to skimp either. Flexibility in the budget will come at the expense of other less critical areas of the car until my wallet's recovered.

I've already had a chat with a local machine shop/engine builder who built engines for several of my friends and it's far from his first Olds build. With the variety of engines his shop builds though, I don't expect that he's necessarily totally up to date with what parts might be currently available or recommended for an Olds specifically. My goal is to be as well informed as possible without cramping his style or coming off like an internet wannabe.

So here's what I'm thinking and needing input on at this point, based on what I've read in here so far.

Carb - Quick Fuel or Holley (I've seen various recommendations for them here, and my builder also mentioned them as preferred. I don't think EFI is in the budget this year)
Intake - RPM (Torker or Performer) as recommended by my builder
Cam - Erson TQ something to be determined as decisions are made on other parts. I suspect a roller cam/roller rockers might send my budget out of control quickly?
Crank - stock. Hoping I have an N crank but haven't opened things up yet to see. Will have him machine for pilot bearing in case the 4 speed conversion comes to fruition
Heads - C heads that have been reworked as mentioned earlier
Pistons - Open to suggestions. I've seen the comments pointing to something lighter...what are good options that are easy on the wallet?
Rods - I'm assuming he'll use what's in the engine already. We haven't discussed parts to that granularity yet. Pros/cons?
ARP fasteners - worth doing everywhere, some places, or nowhere?
Compression Ratio - we have 94 octane non-ethanol gas here that I will run, but I should probably plan ahead in case it disappears. I know a lower CR will cost HP so where's a good place to aim for?
Exhaust - probably headers, I have a set that came with the engine but they might be due for replacement
Ignition - I haven't seen this discussed much. MSD, or is there something at a similar price with better performance/reliability?

I'm open to any and all suggestions, especially ones that translate to best bang for the buck. What considerations have I missed? There are bound to be more questions as things get refined!

cutlassefi

So what IS your budget? HP goal?

VI Cutty

I'm up in Canada so my budget amount probably won't align with USD. I'd like to be in the $7500 range, possibly up to 10k. The higher I go, the less I can do elsewhere on the car for now. If it wound up going over 10k I'd need to reassess and figure out how to fund it.

I don't have a specific HP goal partly due to being somewhat budget driven and honestly not knowing what a realistic target within my budget would be.

stan 65 cutlass

hey Clay , how have you been? a new motor, awesome. unfortunately i dont have anything big block thats extra for you. other than extra C heads which you already have. i need the Torker for my rebuilt 425. ill be watching this thread

VI Cutty

Hey Stan, doing good here...retired a year ago so no more commute! We need to get together for a beer and a yarn soon. I'll put your name on the Torker.

stan 65 cutlass

definitely a get together is in order, congrats on retiring, im along way off seen as how i dont have any retirement plan at work. i already have a Torker in my parts pile but i need it .which one of your fine steeds is in line for the new mill?

VI Cutty

This '70 I picked up in Crofton a while back. Came to me with a 260 in it.

stan 65 cutlass

very nice, and a 70 to boot, even better

Koda

This board is usually stock engine purist, but I don't think anyone likes the 260 V8, and it's too new for that car anyway. Bring on the 455!

oldsmoboogie

Here is how i approach a build on a budget listed in order of importance. Build the best short block your budget will allow and add on from there.
1. Quality machine work, final honing with torque plate, align the mains, cut the deck for proper height with pistons chosen etc.
2. Lightest rotating assembly your budget will allow
3. Quality timing chain, roller cam.
4. Quality headwork, guide, valve job, porting.
5. Aftermarket ignition
6. Aftermarket carb

VI Cutty

Yeah, I like to keep things close to "proper" too. But to give that engine it's due, the car sat in a storage locker untouched for 20 years. Primed the oil, cleaned the points, fed it some gas and she started and ran. Fuel pump was still good as well. Put air in the tires and drove it home (about a 20 minute ride). That engine did have to go, though..along with the GM wheels.

VI Cutty

Makes sense, thanks!

The machine shop I'm using has a solid reputation around here and many of my friends run engines built there. Any suggested brands for quality budget minded components?

oldsmoboogie

I bought the Weisco pistons from Mark on here and would do so again. Connecting rods are a toss up, if yours need work you not be much more for the off shore ones. Definitely have someone spec you a cam for YOUR combination and wants. A lot of people have Mark spec them a cam but i used Bullet cams on my big block build and i am probably using them again on my 355. You have a decent budget and should have a nice engine when done.

VI Cutty

One of the challenges I'm finding is that I don't have a clear picture of what kind of numbers I can realistically expect from a given combination of parts, and realistic expectations within the budget. I've increased my budget from earlier posts, and will go as high as 10k - 12k (CDN) or thereabouts. So let's say between 425-450 HP, (what would be a good torque target?), between 9.5:1 and 10:1 compression (we have 94 Octane ethanol free gas here). I'm after a good driving Street car that's unlikely to see the track.

I'm still narrowing things down but wondering if I'm going overkill anywhere, lacking something elsewhere...and what sort of HP range my current choices would put me into.

1969 455 Block bored .030 over
Between 9.5:1 and 10.0:1 compression target
Stock N crank
Forged pistons (probably something a step or two up from Speedpro L2323Fs)...maybe Icon, Wiseco, KB
H beam rods, possibly Speedmaster or Eagle
Flat tappet camshaft that delivers good power over the RPM range for street driving (open to suggestions) with hydraulic lifters
Roller rockers probably something from Comp Cams (Harland Sharp maybe overkill/budget kill(?)
Cloyes double roller timing set
Edelbrock Performer RPM
Holley or Quick fuel Carb (what's a good CFM for an engine like this?)
C Heads that have been ported. Not sure what the chamber volume is yet, or how they flow but they were worked over by someone who learned under Joe Mondello
ARP fasteners
Headers (I have some used long tubes were previously on this engine, but not sure offhand what brand or diameter...haven't decided whether to go with these or get new yet.

So, what does the reality check do to my current budget and expectations? Open to suggestions, too.

cutlassefi

I’ve done a half dozen or so with the following combination, all made just over 500/560.
Ractec 15cc piston (there’s hp in using a better ring pack)
Speedmaster heads with Econoport mods (255-260@.600 lift)
10.0:1
Lunati Hyd roller, 238/246@.050, .580 lift.
Performer intake, center divider cut 1 1/2”.
850 QF
1 3/4 Dyno headers with 2.500 pipes and Magnaflow mufflers
Hope this helps.