Allan R

Today I started the teardown of the 455 I bought last summer. I knew it was a 73 and that the PO had drained the oil (all over his floor by accident ) so I wasn't surprised by the lack of oil. But I wasn't prepared for what I found.

1. Even with a snipe, I cannot get the crank to budge. So I assumed it is siezed or I need to grow some better guns.
2. I pulled the intake (huh..all of 3 bolts holding it) and found the remaining bolts and a clamp on the valley pan. Wait, it gets better
3. One side of the engine has pushrods, the other doesn't. Hmmm, someone was either looking for spare parts or started disassembly and decided it wasn't worth it. (that may be my case too)
4. The DS head was missing 1 bolt, and the other 4 came out pretty easy. Don't know where the missing bolt is. How hard is it to knock or wiggle a head loose? I brained the darn thing with a rubber mallet on all corners and sides. Nuthin. I got a BF screwdriver (Paul Bunyan special ) and gentle tried to pry up the head. The absolute 'tiniest' bit of movement. But the darn thing won't lift off. What do you have to do to get the head loose? I don't want to damage the block if it's worth saving.
5. Once I get the head off, I'm afraid I'm going to see rusted pistons and bores.
6. There is no clamp holding the distributor, and no matter what I've tried it won't budge. Methinks I might have bought me an expensive boat anchor . Not ready to give up on it quite yet. I need advice from you wrench pullers about how to defeat this bugger.

Here are some pics of the darn thing so far.

Well damn, this would explain why it wasn't running
IMG_1496.jpg?t=1312931848

Inside doesn't look too bad from what I can see. The heads look like crap. Oh yeah, I found sunflower seed husks below the turkey tray along with another pile of bolts that God only knows where they came from.


IMG_1497.jpg?t=1312931835

Inside the heads looks pretty rusty and the pushrods are rusty probably from the engine having no oil in it. There was also a big glob of carbon right in the middle of the valley pan under the center of the intake. Broke off easy enough

IMG_1498.jpg?t=1312931835

As you can see, someone was already in here. Note; one of the head bolts is missing. How come the 2 end ones are 9/16 and the middle ones are 5/8? This is the one I tried to take off and couldn't get it to budge. For those who want to know, yes, it's a 73 with J heads

IMG_1499.jpg?t=1312931835

Well this side looks like it should. everythings there and it doesn't look to bad. The oil drain holes in the valley aren't all plugged

Any help or advice you can give is greatly appreciated.

66ninetyeightls

Get a block of wood and a 5 pound swing press. Hit the wood so as not to damage the head. It will come off.

A rubber or plastic mallet aren't going to cut it because they will absorb most of the hit and not shock the rust holding it together.

As for the distributor I would try to use some heat first but have had to destroy distributors before to get them out.

defiant1

Doesn't each head have 10 bolts holding it on?? Confused by your statement above..

d1

copper128

In your pics above, your LH (driver side) head appears to have all 10 bolts intact. The RH (passenger side) has 4 out and 6 still in place. If all 10 aren't out of each head even a BFH ain't gonna budge them!

Bill in NC

You sir have an engine that spent a long time sitting in the rain lol. PB Blaster is going to be your best friend. Absolutely soak everything. Make sure you spray a ton down the intake ports also and spin that engine over on the stand trying to get that dripping blaster to move around inside that thing. Remove the pan and start soaking the crank/rods and cylinders. Don't worry about breaking the distributor, if it spent that much time in the rain, it's junk already anyway.

To remove the heads you could try putting that big pry bar in the heat riser port and pull/pry up against the top of the port. That will usually free a stubborn head. Good luck man!

Allan R

Ah HAH! I just looked more closely and there are more bolts holding the head down by the spark plugs!~! I'll go try them after din din. I didn't see them. You are right. Man I like that. Gives me confidence. Also I think I need new glasses.

Oldskeeper

Hi Allen, I'm still seeing 6 head bolts still holding the head in place, you will need a real big hammer to remove the heads if you leave the bolts in.
the engine looks like it's a candidate for a rebuild, if it is rusted in the bores you will just have to send her out for a rebore, then order the right size pistons and so on and so on.
Have fun
Steve

defiant1

No problem. Just started to question my sanity for a second. Let us know how the pistons look when you get the heads off.

d1

66ninetyeightls

jensenracing77

far from a boat anchor. you should have seen the the engine dre started with. all the rusty stuff will clean up when it is at the machine shop. after a bore and line bore of the manes, checked for cracks.... it will be good as new. most of the trouble you see would have been delt with even on a better core. as for the 9/16 and 5/8 heads on the bolts. look close at the ones with 9/16 heads, do they have ARP on them? i know they have some bolts with differant sizes of heads on them.

66ninetyeightls

I just thought of something.

Who wants to place bets on whether the oil filler tube will come out??

Lady72nRob71

Man, you might have bought a USED boat anchor, given all that rust inside.
On the flip side, your valve train looks 10x cleaner than mine was.
And no, I will not pull my intake...

Allan R

Thank you guys!
Turns out the other head bolts were not on tight at all. Someone definitely has been tinkering in this engine. The bolts came out and the head popped right off cause there wasn't even a head gasket there. OMG OMG OMG OMG. I think I'm going to puke. Look at the bottom of the heads and the pistons/bores. Is this even salvagable? If it is, I'm not sure how much over I'm going to have to go with the machining.

Here are 4 shots from different angles that show some nasty ugly rust just like I suspected it would be. Sad face!

IMG_1508.jpg?t=1312939388

This almost looks like it's not that bad. Don't be fooled by the pic
IMG_1507.jpg?t=1312939388

The bottom of the head looks like it was left in a swamp!
IMG_1509.jpg?t=1312939388

There are valves in there .... somewhere under the rust.
IMG_1510.jpg?t=1312939388

Tomorrow I got some errands to run, but in the afternoon I might be able to get the rest of the teardown done. Not much really left. 1 more head, water pump, dist, fuel pump, oil filter bracket, cam (if it's still there) and the crank. I'm going to have to get someone with better mech skills than me to look at the block and heads to see whether they're worth salvaging.

66ninetyeightls

OMG those heads are NASTY!!!! Not sure about those but the block is definately salvagable. A dip in the hot tank will take care of that rust in no time. Then a little machine work and it will look like new.

I'd bet money that it sat outside for years full of water. Thats why the previous owner said the oil "drained out by accident"

Allan R

Well I just went and checked. The 9/16 are not ARP, they are grade 8 with a capital I in the middle. My bad on the 5/8, they are actually 11/16. I don't know whether I should just order new bolts so they are all the same or go out to the boneyard and look for engines. I personally don't care which parts I get as long as they are from 73-76 Olds. Those are getting harder to find up here.

Nice to know that machine shops can cure this crap. Wonder how much machining. Also, do you think I should stay with stock valve size or go oversize? I am not building a race car; just something with around 300 hp.

You rotten ba$turd! I already tried that and it's wedged in there tighter than a bankers hands in your pockets. I'll get it though. I want to find out if the numbers on the filler tube match the engine block.

By tomorrow I'll have a better idea what the DS head and cylinders look like. I'm hoping this is not a boat anchor. I really wanted to have a 455 in my car. What do you mean you won't pull your intake. I just saw a W30 aluminum one for a 350 the other day for for a paltry 650.00 You know you want it, and besides you've got the engine bay almost stripped bare. Pull the darn thing. Go Rob go!

Lady72nRob71

You musta missed this thread...
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post294407
My neighbor is trying to convince me to replace it with a 350 Chevy...

You have one heck of a rusty hulk, but I would think a competent shop would be able to clean it out. You might have to take at least one piston out in pieces though...

Jaybird

Allan R. : That is one butt ugly engine. I've just spent the last two hours tearing into my very tired and d.o.a. engine tonight. My '67 425 looked very greasy but not rusty (except the water ports). My #6 piston has been slapping itself against my "C" heads. Damn! Hopefully the damage there is not too bad. I haven't gone any deeper yet. I hope that my old (tired) block will be ok. While I was driving to my friend's place to receive the new engine, my old one seized up and I had to tow it the rest of the way there.

Meanwhile, the freshly rebuilt spare engine is almost ready to be dropped in. It has a new Comp cam, Comp valve springs and Comp lifters. The block was bored .030 over and new low compression pistons were installed. I can hardly wait to hear it fire up for the first time!

F.Y.I.




Jaybird

TK-65

Yikes. Looks alot like this 400 I had not too long ago. It sat outside without a carb in a 442 with no hood. Some of the pistons were spalled and rotted away, basically the tops of the pistons were eroded away.

DSC03943.jpg

DSC05476.jpg

jensenracing77

i would get new bolts. with some missing and some being from who knows what, i wouldn't trust them. if you are not looking for high performance you could just go with stock replacement bolts and not spend the money on ARP. ARP don't have the accessory bolts either if you need them.

442_Mustang

Gotta say... you will love the power of the 455. but Cmon... Gotta shoot for an honest 400 horsepower.It's easy and still really driveable these days.I bet someone could whip you up a cam and BOOM!!! There you go:-)

442scotty

Might be cheaper to scrap it and get a running one from a beater...there are still lots around...not worth saving in my opinion

66ninetyeightls

Completely disagree.

Its nothin a machine shop can't fix without breaking a sweat. As long as the pistons come out its no different than doing an engine covered in grease. Its going to require all the same processes. Why waste money purchasing a new engine before you even let a machine shop check it out. Which would still need to be done on any new engine.

442_Mustang

I agree with 66ninetyeight. Gonna bore it anyways... Seff is doing one over in Sweden or somewhere and he started with a pretty rough piece. It looks like it cleaned up fine. Go for it Allan...

Allan R

Well today was fun! Got into my coveralls and started to tear the rest of it down. The DS heads had all the right bolts except one, and my torque wrench made short work of getting the bolts undone and out. The number 7 cylinder was thick with rust for some reason and the head gasket looked really not that bad. The other cylinders were in decent shape with minimal rust.

Off came the water pump, fuel pump, and oil adapter. Then the pulleys. Peeked at the timing chain and it looked surprisingly new with very little stretch on it. Cam looked pretty decent with no easily visible marks.

The oil pan had the worst collection of gummed up oil and (you won't believe this) small pebbles - yeah, rocks!! - in the bottom. The oil pump screen was coated with the slime of the Exxon Valdez and (more) small rocks. Now I know the engine is a Rocket 455, but I'm seeing a 'Rock' It 455 . Anyway the oil pump is trash but the pan will clean up nice.

Then I got some penetrating fluid out, soaked it the 'odd' cylinders for about 3 hours. My bro in law dropped by so I took a break while we talked cars and stuff. After he left I got my drill and attached a wire wheel and wire wheeled the hell out of the DS cylinders. Followed up with some 180 wet sandpaper to take down the roughness and it came out not too bad. I would guess that machining it out .020 to .030 would put it back into production.

While I was at it I put a straight edge across the top to see if there was any warping or damage and it came out straight. Did the same for the head and it also showed no gaps. So far so good. Spent about 2 hours on that puppy.

Keep in mind I'm trying to get this to a stage where I can rotate the crank and move the pistons so I can get the pistons and cam out, so it's not going to be that pretty. I gave the bank a shot of wd40 to keep it from drying or surface rusting again.

There was hardly any carbon -if any- on the pistons so I'm guessing this engine was either really low miles or it was rebuilt once already. The pistons were stamped (in order) A, B, blank, A. By the time I was finished I gotta say I was feeling pumped and actually quite proud of what I had accomplished. Here's how it turned out:
IMG_1514.jpg?t=1313025819




Well I'm starting to gear up for the other side because I really wanted to get both sides done today so tomorrow I can put a snipe on her and try to turn it. So this time I figured I'd start by wire wheeling the cylinders before I saturate it in pentrating fluid.

Attacking the #5 cylinder first because it looked the ugliest I started getting rid of the built up rust. It literally peeled off with that wire wheel attachment on the drill. I'm stoked.

On to number 8 because I'm right handed and it's on the right. Out of the corner of my eye something caught my attention. Got my trouble light and looked into the cylinder. Then I said, "Well son of a Bee atch!" "I bought a boat anchor!"


Folks, there isn't anything that will make your heart skip a beat like looking at a cracked cylinder! Don't know how I missed that the first day. Musta been excited. So here's what I found in the #8 cylinder
IMG_1516.jpg?t=1313025819

I guess you could say I was really disappointed. Am I discouraged? Nope. I learned how to teardown an engine the last couple of days. I was doing something that I like to do. I now have some spare parts for anyone who might need pulleys, intake, or some slightly rusted (Hah) heads.

FWIW, the previous owner told me that he had absolutely no idea of the engines history. He had bought it to build for his car, and I hold no grudge against my purchasing it. It was a totally fair transaction and I got a free engine stand out of it.

So, ALL YOU 455 CAPTAINS!! Join me as I hoist tribute to a fallen rocket! Oh, I checked the block and the engine was cast in Jan 73 for a Lansing car with VIN ending 123193. No idea if it was Cutlass, Delta, 98 or CC. Tomorrow it's off to the boneyard for maybe a couple bucks salvage. RIP Olds 455, there will be another to replace you.

66ninetyeightls

Ahhh thats too bad Allan.

You had me all excited at the beginning of this post then crushed me in the middle. Have the block sand blasted and paint it. Would make a great coffee table for the garage!!

MDchanic

I take it you don't have a boat?

Sorry for your cast iron loss...

- Eric

Lady72nRob71

Bummer - two cracks at that.
That could have been an oil pan off my engine. I have found rocks in some of the strangest places in my car.

Just clean that block up real nice, put a thick piece of glass over it and use it for a coffee table.
Or, put it on a stand out front and bolt your mailbox to it...

66ninetyeightls

ummmmmm...... LOL

442_Mustang

Lol... Great little "Look Up" pixsure

Allan R

Actually I do, but if I used that for an anchor I think I'd end up sinking it! Not to mention that I'd probably never be able to haul it in.

Thanks Eric. For my next experiment maybe I'll toss it into a swimming pool to determine its exact displacement. Probably won't be too popular with the swimmers though.

FWIW, when I turned the engine over to do the pan I got about a quart of coolant coming out of the block. Is that normal?

Thanks to all the others who have been following this thread. With luck I'll find a new block soon to work on.

442Scotty - Nuts, you were right this time. I will go hunting for another one of those wascally 455s. Don't worry, your 65 is safe until you put a 455 in it! Wait till the Stamps play the Esks next. I'm going to tie that 455 to all of Hufnagals best recievers - Bryant, Forzani & Parker.

Allan R

Sorry Craig. It is what it is. Not what I expected. Don't think I'll do the table in the garage; got way to much 'junk' out there already. Had to build shelves just so I had room to work on the motor and still park the Cutlass in there. Right now the wife (who has always parked in the garage for the last 19 years) has her car sitting out on the drive pad. She will actually phone me in the house to come out and bring an umbrella if it's raining. She's so precious I just can't say no. Little does she know that that smile on my face as I bring out the 'brolly' is a suppressed laugh....

Fakser

Now now guys depending on if that block has been bored previously or not it may still be salvageable with a very solid machine shop. I had a pretty good relationship with my machine shop before he retired and he showed me things I thought were not possible. Every engine guy on here probably has a cool machine shop engine saving story that could bring some light to this. May be sleevable may not, low cost machine shop is not where you wanna take it. High cost doesn't mean good neither, look for previous miracles they've worked you may get surprised. Good luck........lol better you than me my wife would've smacked me for bringing that home.

ah64pilot

Hey, you should boil it and make a coffee table out of it! ~

Allan R

And what makes you think she gave me a big hug for bringing it home? According to her it just took up valuable space, and what was I going to do with it anyway? Lucky for me she's good at managing the $$$ around here.

What the heck? $200.00 including the stand? Oh well, I still got an engine stand out of it, and the wife's happier that it's going away so she can park in the garage. She doesn't know that I'm googling 455 engines on the computer.....next, CL and Kijiji.

442much

Geeze Allan, I feel bad. Guys, I was the fellow that sold Allan that engine. I found it on Kijiji a few years back. The fellow I bought it off of said it ran when it was pulled from the car. The engine was under a tree on the guys acreage but had a blue tarp over it. I bought the dang thing for $400 an was going to rebuild it for my car while I waited for my engine in my car to be rebuilt. When it came down to actually doing it I thought why build two engines and spend $$$. I'll just wait for mine to be finished, and so I thought I'd sell it.

Allan and I have become friends so when I offered to sell the engine he was doing me a favour getting it out of my garage (made the wife happy too), I figured $200 including the stand (because I wasn't going to get another engine) was fair. Looks like perhaps it wasn't. I should have torn the thing down and looked around. If I remember correctly, there was no distributor in place when I bought it, just the hole. I put one on.

I did try to drain the oil in February and nothing came out. I tried to remove the oil pan because someone wanted to buy it. Couldn't get it off. Of course I never bothered to put the bolts back (lazy plus I thought I might have missed a couple since it was so dirty). In the spring the warm weather removed the pan for me and oiled my garage floor. I really wanted it gone now. Then I sold it to Allan.

Sorry man. I figured it wasn't perfect, but I didn't think it was useless. I never did get as far as you did with it. Perhaps we can work something out. I see you didn't want to use my name, (thanks) but it's something I have to own up to in front of you and the guys.

Geeze, I have a fast ratio steering box that I pulled off a Camaro years ago that I was going to sell. Maybe I won't because although it's been in my shed for about 20 years, I really don't know how long it was on the car in the junkyard or what its real internal condition is... and I hate being the bad guy. I am sorry Allan.

svnt442

It might be worth finding out if the block can be sleeved instead of junking it. These are not growing on trees and if it can be saved I say it should be. It might cost an extra $100 to sleeve it, but I bet that's less than it would cost to get another block and run the risk of another bad engine.

Just a thought.

CutlassLegend

Cracked block can def be sleeved. I have seen gouges from the cylinder going into the water jacket be repaired. Once this muscle car craze started hard about 10 years ago, due to original and rare motors sleeving has become a norm. Def dont anchor her, I know a ton of guys that will take her if you plan on scraping. Call you local machine shop and have it sleeved, I am assuming you were going to bore it anyway.

507OLDS

In my area,that is your typical junkyard engine.They get water in them,and look nasty,and sometimes have cracked,due to sitting in the frigid winter.I've seen much worse.I would strip the block down,and look the rest over.If the rest looks good,have the block hot-tanked & checked for any other issues.It you only have one bad cylinder,then you could have it sleeved.That crack looks like water sat in there & froze,so there might be other cracks or issues that you can't see.The other option is to just get another bare block.You have the crank,rods,and all the misc parts to make an engine.

Bill in NC

From that point, I would drop it off at a machine shop, let them tear it down and tank/flux it. Don't feel bad if you need a sleeve or two. I had to have mine sleeved after the last piston failure.

Allan R

Ken,
You have nothing to apologize for! Neither of us knew what would be unveiled in the teardown, and you never took advantage of a friendship; in fact you were totally honest and fair about everything you said about the motor. Please don't dwell on this. I'm not going to. I actually had a lot of fun tearing down that block to where it is now and plan to finish the job. I think with a little more work I'll be able to move the crank so that's what I'm going to do.


Then I can pull the pistons, crank and cam. BTW however you got that HEI in there, it's seized tighter than the gov'ts hands on your bank account. Might have to bust it to pull it. We'll see when the cam comes out. The base has a crack in it anyway and the wires coming off the side are broken so it's pretty much toast.

Richard is going to get his dad's pulley puller so I can get the balancer off. Yay! I might be able to get this done today. Joanne still comes out and looks, then shakes her head and just walks away. Only thing she asks periodically is if I'm going to clean the floor so it doesn't come inside. So I'm going out shortly to degrease the floor so it looks and smells pretty.

Now, for all the others.
A BIG THANK YOU for all the great ideas and support. I know you have my best interests at heart sharing your knowledge. I think what I'm going to do is call this one a learning curve and go after another one.

Last night I found a 76 Regency in SK that has a 455/400 92000 original miles. Buddy wants 400.00 for the engine/tranny if I pull it. Or if he pulls it - 600.00 The good thing is he says this thing starts and runs (will do a demo)but needs a carb overhaul. No surprise there, it's been sitting outside for the last 3 years. I don't know if that tranny will work on my Cutlass because I've read there are long and short tail shaft tranny's. Would that mean having to custom fit the driveshaft? I would like to find something closer to home because that's a 650 mile one way trip. I might take him up on the offer though if I find someone with (most important - time) a flatbed, strong arms, engine lift and some mechanical skills to help me. I've come to respect the weight these cast iron monsters.