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69 Olds 442 - Need to get Engine turning - HELP Please!
I just bought my first old school muscle car. Its an all original 69 442 matching numbers. Bought as is. Never really worked on a car before this. Could use all the help available to help me get this bad boy cruising. Thank you in advance! New spark plug wires. New distributor cap and rotor. New brake booster. Came with HEI distributor instead of original points. Not sure how this will effect the electric harmess set up.
I guess I'm not sure if there is a question. Does the engine turn over when you turn the engine manually via the crankshaft? Or do you already know the engine is free (turns over manually) but you need assistance with starting the engine or you have another question regarding getting it started?
I guess I'm not sure if there is a question. Does the engine turn over when you turn the engine manually via the crankshaft? Or do you already know the engine is free (turns over manually) but you need assistance with starting the engine or you have another question regarding getting it started?
Supposedly the engine has turned manually, according to the previous owner. Im trying to figure out what else I need to get her started through the crankshaft. I just bought the starter but not sure how to get that hooked up. I have the original wire harness but not sure if it still works or compatible now that it has an HEI distributor.
Also looking for frint fuel lines. but can't find a place that only sells the fronts.
I apologize for being scattered. If someone can help with good resources to figure stuff out on my own or somethinglike that id appreciate it.
OK, a few things. First, the carb isn't original either. That's a 1970-up Qjet with an integral choke. The 69 Qjets use a divorced choke coil that sits in that pocket on the intake crossover.
Second, I assume this is a G-block 400 and it was just incorrectly painted gold instead of bronze.
Third, what do you mean by "front fuel lines"? I can see the pump-to-carb line in place. The only other hard lines are the ones for fuel feed from the tank and return back to the tank. Both of those run the full length from the suspension crossmember to the tank. There is no "front" line - it's one continuous line. There are rubber hoses that run from the hard lines to the pump and from the hard lines to the tank sender.
As far as starting, you only need the batter cables in place and two wires, one from +12v to the BATT terminal on the HEI and one with a starter switch to the "S" terminal on the starter motor. That bypasses everything else and will start the engine, assuming the carb and distributor are set correctly. Obviously the wire to the distributor will either need a switch or you'll have to disconnect it to turn the engine off once it starts. Once you know the engine runs, you can methodically connect everything else in the car. And FYI, you can fill the carb float bowl with fuel through the bowl vent just to see if it starts. That might let it run for a minute or so. I've even done this without a radiator, just to see if the engine even runs. Obviously don't run it any longer than that, and don't do it repeatedly once the engine gets running, but cold cast iron V8 will run for a minute or so without coolant with no damage. Don't try this with aluminum block or heads, however.
It’s nice you offered to apologize, everyone is here to assist.
Joe is really slipping, so I’ll cover for him. You asked for good resources. There exists one absolutely essential resource you must have in your possession. Purchase a paper copy of an original Oldsmobile Chassis Service Manual (CSM). Do it tonight. They range between $35-$75. Buy an original not a reproduction. The original has the wiring diagrams, also. There is no getting around the CSM is your absolute best resource. Have you bought it yet? Check eBay.
OK, a few things. First, the carb isn't original either. That's a 1970-up Qjet with an integral choke. The 69 Qjets use a divorced choke coil that sits in that pocket on the intake crossover.
Second, I assume this is a G-block 400 and it was just incorrectly painted gold instead of bronze.
Third, what do you mean by "front fuel lines"? I can see the pump-to-carb line in place. The only other hard lines are the ones for fuel feed from the tank and return back to the tank. Both of those run the full length from the suspension crossmember to the tank. There is no "front" line - it's one continuous line. There are rubber hoses that run from the hard lines to the pump and from the hard lines to the tank sender.
As far as starting, you only need the batter cables in place and two wires, one from +12v to the BATT terminal on the HEI and one with a starter switch to the "S" terminal on the starter motor. That bypasses everything else and will start the engine, assuming the carb and distributor are set correctly. Obviously the wire to the distributor will either need a switch or you'll have to disconnect it to turn the engine off once it starts. Once you know the engine runs, you can methodically connect everything else in the car. And FYI, you can fill the carb float bowl with fuel through the bowl vent just to see if it starts. That might let it run for a minute or so. I've even done this without a radiator, just to see if the engine even runs. Obviously don't run it any longer than that, and don't do it repeatedly once the engine gets running, but cold cast iron V8 will run for a minute or so without coolant with no damage. Don't try this with aluminum block or heads, however.
I really appreciate all that info. Thank you. The fuel lines seemed to have been cut right at the hood entry. Im guessing that's the rubber portion. Is that not specific to the 69. Is it just a specific rubber hose size ?
Again sorry if I'm asking dumb questions. This is all new to me. Been trying to watch as many YouTube videos and read through blogs like this one to piece it all together. I could just take it to a mechanic but there's no fun in that.
It’s nice you offered to apologize, everyone is here to assist.
Joe is really slipping, so I’ll cover for him. You asked for good resources. There exists one absolutely essential resource you must have in your possession. Purchase a paper copy of an original Oldsmobile Chassis Service Manual (CSM). Do it tonight. They range between $35-$75. Buy an original not a reproduction. The original has the wiring diagrams, also. There is no getting around the CSM is your absolute best resource. Have you bought it yet? Check eBay.
I did buy one. Waiting for it to arrive hopefully sometime this week. Also bought the service assembly manual. And wiring manual. Probably overkill but **** it im committed.
Do not take it to a mechanic. You must first FIND a mechanic who KNOWS how to work on these beasts. If it isn’t FI, PCM, BCM, ABS, OBDII, they’ll stare at you like a deer into headlights. Did you buy the CSM, yet?
I really appreciate all that info. Thank you. The fuel lines seemed to have been cut right at the hood entry. Im guessing that's the rubber portion. Is that not specific to the 69. Is it just a specific rubber hose size ?
Again sorry if I'm asking dumb questions. This is all new to me. Been trying to watch as many YouTube videos and read through blogs like this one to piece it all together. I could just take it to a mechanic but there's no fun in that.
I'm not sure that the "hood entry" is, but the stock metal fuel lines run all the way through the suspension crossmember and poke out on the front side of it. The rubber hoses connect there. Should be a 3/8" hose for the fuel line and a 1/4" hose for the return. You can just barely see the fuel hose from the crossmember to the pump in this photo.
And since Norm has goaded me into it, stop watching the web and buy one of these:
I gotta agree with that. If you are getting information from someplace other than here (such as facebook), STOP. This is the place to get accurate information.
I'm not sure that the "hood entry" is, but the stock metal fuel lines run all the way through the suspension crossmember and poke out on the front side of it. The rubber hoses connect there. Should be a 3/8" hose for the fuel line and a 1/4" hose for the return. You can just barely see the fuel hose from the crossmember to the pump in this photo.
And since Norm has goaded me into it, stop watching the web and buy one of these:
Is this cut correctly? Do i need a new set of fuel lines?
Is this cut correctly? Do i need a new set of fuel lines?
OK, I have to apologize. It's been a while since I looked at my 69s. There IS a separate front pipe that connects there. See the attached page from the Product Information Manual.
Inline Tube shows those short front line sections as part of a complete fuel line package. You may try to call them and see if they offer those lines separately.
OP- where are you located? Someone here with more experience may be close enough to you to offer a hand.
Does your area have a Cars and Coffee gathering on Saturday mornings? How about an AACA Chapter www.aaca.org or other car club? Tech school automotive program?
There's plenty of resources out there. Might take some digging to find them. Just remember that working on an Oldsmobile is different than working on a Chevrolet, so take anything a Chevy guy says with a grain of salt. Basic mechanicking is the same for any car, but you need someone at your side who understands Oldsmobiles.
Appreciate all the info. Trying to filter out all the info for sure. Does anyone know what exhaust system is best for this car. Looking at the original specs they are 2" pipes but Flowmaster smallest are 2.5" and i wanna keep it as original as possible. Would the original trumpet tips fit flowmasters? Any recommendations?
Arruv89, I hope my suggestions and observations have been helpful. I'm leaving this thread as I have apparently grievously offended another poster and I have no intention of falling into his pissing contest.
My grandfather had an appropriate saying.
"Never wrestle a hog. You get covered in **** and the hog enjoys it." Country wisdom, that.
Or you could just not break the forum rules...
"3. Personal attacks against other forum members will not be tolerated, nor will any type of "trolling" for a fight. This includes political attacks, slurs, or sneering at any viewpoint or political party."
Arruv89, I hope my suggestions and observations have been helpful. I'm leaving this thread as I have apparently grievously offended another poster and I have no intention of falling into his pissing contest.
My grandfather had an appropriate saying.
"Never wrestle a hog. You get covered in **** and the hog enjoys it." Country wisdom, that.
rocket - You have not offended me. You've been on here longer than me and you know the rules but evidently you find it difficult to abide by them. You know this site is about assisting CO members w/ car issues. You know all too well neither politics nor religious statements and discussion are tolerated, yet you want to interject your political debauchery into the thread. I called you out - so what. Stop with the political haranguing.
Appreciate all the info. Trying to filter out all the info for sure. Does anyone know what exhaust system is best for this car. Looking at the original specs they are 2" pipes but Flowmaster smallest are 2.5" and i wanna keep it as original as possible. Would the original trumpet tips fit flowmasters? Any recommendations?
You could use 2.5" diameter pipes from the engine back to the mufflers, then use 2" pipes to the rear bumper. The larger head pipes would be good for performance and after the mufflers the pipe diameter isn't as critical.
Or you could use 2.5" all the way through. I don't have personal experience with this but many folks have installed trumpet tips on larger than factory tail pipes.
I can't tell clearly from your image where the leak resides, I'll take a guess. It appears your ATM could be the source of the leak (see image below). The modulator valve is attached to the intake manifold with a vacuum line. They're known to wear, are readily available and easy to replace. When your CSM arrives, you'll get a better understanding of its function. You can (for now) trace the vacuum line from the ATM (Automatic Transmission Modulator) valve to the intake manifold. The transmission gasket appears rather soaked. You most likely might think about changing the transmission filter and gasket, as well.
If it leaks after sitting a few days, almost certainly the leak is coming from the dipstick tube. If anyone has fooled around with the dipstick recently, it’s almost a sure bet the tube has cracked around the o-ring.
what other brands for exhaust systems are worth looking into?
The Flowmaster pipes should be OK, just use a different muffler. There have been a lot of posts saying the Walker Super Dynomax sound good without being excessively loud or droning.
It looks like the car needs a decent going through. That's not bad - most of these cars, given their age and questionable histories, need that. I'd suggest not getting ahead of yourself. Prioritize what needs to be done and stick to a plan. My suggestion:
1) Address the fuel line. Your picture may not be clear but it looks to me like the 3/8 (fuel supply) line was cut. It should have an upset at the end that the rubber hose has to slide over. It's intended to provide a barrier for the clamped hose to slide off. You can make do without it but it might be worthwhile to replace the entire line anyway since these were mild steel from the factory and all have seen better days by this point.
2) Get it started. As mentioned above, a few things look to be different from the original '69 parts. That's usually an indication that somebody didn't know how to put it back together as it was originally, or didn't care. Getting one of these close to original is not cheap. They'll drive fine with aftermarket or swapped parts if you do the job right so you need to decide how much you want to invest.
3) Fix obvious leaks. Hard to tell from your pictures what may be leaking at the trans. If the car is sitting, the trans will usually leak - especially if it has older or original gaskets and seals.
4) Brakes. You haven't mentioned these but be sure to go through the brakes thoroughly prior to getting it on the road.
5) Exhaust. Don't even think about aftermarket exhaust until you deal with 1-4. Aftermarket kits are available from several reputable companies. Flowmaster and Pypes are two you can look into. Keep in mind you don't have to use the mufflers that may come with a pre-bent kit. Everybody's ears are different. You'll have to decide what you like and don't like. Pypes makes stainless trumpets for 2.5" tailpipes if you go that size. I believe I've seen someone selling 3" as well but I don't recall who made them. Check out Summit or Jegs for pre-bent exhaust options. "Original" exhaust kits are available (Gardner) but these are extremely expensive and can be more restrictive than an aftermarket system.
I commend your enthusiasm. These cars are relatively easy to work on and they're great for learning. Get the CSM and use it. It'll teach you (almost) everything you need to know.
Good luck.
Or you could use 2.5" all the way through. I don't have personal experience with this but many folks have installed trumpet tips on larger than factory tail pipes.
I know factory trumpets can be adapted to work with 2.25" pipes because that's what my car has.
Can someone please tell me what connects to this? Im looking at the CSM and it says fuel vent surge. Can anyone confirm? Also where can i find this part? Is it specific to 69 olds or is it a general GM part?
Im looking at the CSM and it says fuel vent surge. Can anyone confirm? Also where can i find this part? Is it specific to 69 olds or is it a general GM part?
Confirm it? Why, do you think they're lying about it? The drawing on the bottom of Page 8-1 shows it pretty clearly. And all the repro houses sell them.
Confirm it? Why, do you think they're lying about it? The drawing on the bottom of Page 8-1 shows it pretty clearly. And all the repro houses sell them.
thank you! Can't really read my CSM on some parts. It seems its a reprint and the words and pics of some diagrams are a little hard to read.
Also cant tell from the CSM where exactly this ground wire goes?
There's a sheet metal screw that attaches it to the underside of the floorpan. The exact location isn't critical, so long as it makes good electrical contact to ground.
As far as exhaust, Ram Air Restorations makes a nice 2.5" head pipe that comes off the manifolds. Then tie them into a 2.5" system like the Flowmaster or similar 2.5" system. Pypes makes a nice stainless 2.5" inlet trumpet tip to work with the larger pipes. As said, hard to go wrong with a Dynomax Super Turbo muffler, they flow decent and aren't too loud or too quiet either. Your motor will like the larger pipes. Yeah, I also need to put a new vent on my 70S. Paint that engine bronze while you are it, if you want it to look stock. Yeah, I can see the Autolite reman tag on the Qjet. There are multiple small cap, remote coil HEI distributors available if you want a more stock look.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; October 6th, 2020 at 06:49 AM.
There's a sheet metal screw that attaches it to the underside of the floorpan. The exact location isn't critical, so long as it makes good electrical contact to ground.
usually that ground wire is attached to one of the gas tank support ribs on the bottom side of the trunk floor close to where the tank strap attaches on the front.
September 20th, 2020, 05:23 PM
