Nemesis

Good afternoon everyone, I have been searching the forum the last several weeks to get my answers to this, but wanted to verify before placing the order. I am doing a cam swap on '70 455. This is not a complete tear down and rebuild, that will come in a few years. Because of this premiums like Harlan Sharps are not really being considered at this time. I know that the Comp Cams 1442-Kit comes highly recommended on here. That being said, I also see that many suggest tossing the pushrods out for better ones and the locking nuts out for Poly Locs. With that in mind, I have found that it is actually cheaper to buy the components individually as opposed to the kit. Here is my list so far:

Rocker Arm Studs - Comp Cams 4542-16 - $73.97 - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-4542-16
Guide Plates - Comp Cams 4842-8 - $17.97 - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-4842-8
Short Poly Locs - Comp Cams 4601-16 - $43.97 - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-4601-16
Roller Tip Rockers - Comp Cams 1442-16 - $160.97 - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-1442-16
Push Rods to be determined

Total: $296.88 (1442-Kit costs 283.97 plus the $43.97 Poly Locs totals $327.94)

My questions surround the rockers themselves. I see several people stating that the Ford windsor full roller rockers work on an Olds:

Does this mean that for $24 more, I could run Comp Cams aluminum full roller rockers? - $184.97 - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...view/make/ford

Will these roller rockers fit on the Comp conversion studs with enough thread left to lock them on or should they only be used on heads that have had the pedestals removed and been tapped for normal studs?

Thank you for your help!

brownbomber77

Not sure about "several"....ha. I am the one who keeps saying it, because I have them in 3 engines right now and the geometry lines up. Notice the Comp Cams roller tip rockers are also the same part number for Ford and Olds? If you're buying new, Scorpion roller rockers are not too far off from that price and ya don't need guideplates as they're a pedestal mount rocker..

Nemesis

Brownbomber, do you have a part number for the Scorpions that you are referring to? How is the reliability of Scorpion compared to Comp? I am not saying that Comp is good, just how do they compare?

brownbomber77

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...ake/oldsmobile


Their endurance ones are 10% off right now so they're only $6 more than their regular ones...

Nemesis

Correct me if I am wrong, but using the pedestal style takes me back to having to shim the rocker to adjust valve lash as opposed to simply adjusting the Poly Loc?

brownbomber77

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=333175


http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/scor...ok-191936.html

brownbomber77

It's an $8 shim kit from Ford Racing....at least that's what I used, I'm sure Scorpion has one, too. They come in a few thicknesses

brownbomber77

Sorry, they're $9.97.


https://www.summitracing.com/parts/f...a302/overview/


I was able to get away with a stock pushrod and .020 on the Ford E351 1.7 pedestal rockers.

Nemesis

Brownbomber, I appreciate the links, but after reading through the information, I still feel that I want to stay with a true adjustable rocker. This way when I do get to doing a full rebuild, I can shave the pedestals and tap for regular studs reusing the rollers. It appears the Scorpions in a full roller rocker for a 3/8 stud are more expensive than the Comp ones that I listed. Is there a reason to choose the scorpions over the Comps if I am using the conversion studs?

brownbomber77

I have seen, in higher spring pressures and higher lift cams, the fulcrum get chewed up. That's why I'm not a huge fan of the roller tip rocker. I mean, really, everything costs about the same after it's done. Gotta drill a set of heads somewhere between $60-$100.
If you're just gonna run a roller tip, low lift cam, and a little better than stock spring pressure, may as well just grab a set off eBay.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-Block-...JYI6fF&vxp=mtr

GOSFAST

If you plan everything out well you'll find that "real" roller rockers will fit under the factory covers with a single-thick V/C gasket?

We've been doing these for years on many of our 100% stock-appearing builds. Heads get pads milled and machined for the 7/16" BBC studs.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's a shot of a recent one a while back, we dynoed it, the resto shop then painted it after the dyno. Absolutely no clearance issues, full retro-hyd roller build.

olds 307 and 403

My Comp roller tips were in good shape using stiff dual springs. They were noisy as heck though, I switched to the SBF Scorpion 1.72 true roller rocker, much quieter.

oldsmobuser

GOFAST, Which rocker arm studs are you using? I'm building a 350 with a roller cam and Harland Sharp 5016 roller rockers and I'm trying to get the geometry right. The studs I have are ARP 7/16" screw in with Edelbrock guide plates. The rocker bottoms out before I can get my geometry right. Thanks for your help.

Bernard Mondello

Hello oldsmobuser,

The Harland Sharp roller rocker arms, we sell are modified exclusively for us from HS...

To eliminate the exact problem you're having, you will never get the rocker arm you have low enough to correctly geometry it over the valve!

Here's a link to our fb business page Bernard Mondello Racing Enterprises that explains our modification below!!!

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...08309059257851

Thank you in advance,
Bernard Mondello Racing Enterprises

GOSFAST

In all my years of doing R/A conversions on the Olds platform I've NEVER needed any "modified" roller rockers, when Sharp's were chosen most have gotten the "standard" S-5001 with some SBC rocker studs and nowadays some adjustable guide plates! Years ago we had access to some "custom" plates made for the Olds. Not necessary any longer!

Having said that, the "pads" MUST be "prepped" for the 7/16" studs. When it's done this way the OEM covers fit fine. We are NOT talking the mech-roller platform here, only flat-tappets or retro-hyd rollers. The actual R/A studs (ARP's) we use for this build have very "shallow" nuts at the base of the studs (photo below).



The finished one in the photo in my post above was done 5 or 6 years ago and has been flawless for performance. Customer was even happier with the HP numbers for what we built.

(Add) Just another tip also when checking the cam end-play on the roller-cam platform (hyd or mech), be certain to "mock-up" all the front components (this means the water pump to be exact), and then check the play. We've found bolting the pump in place WILL alter the end-play on the cam. We also use only a roller cam button on these units!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.


P.S. You cannot accomplish the rocker modification without machining the pads on the heads. We mill the pads .150"/.200" down and open the pushrod holes to .562". All this has been done in the build in the photo above. Fitting the retro-hyd lifters with the stock valley pan gasket is another major issue, it must be "windowed" for clearance.

BillK

That and they will not work with a factory cast iron manifold. Even with an Edelbrock aluminum I had to modify the lifters some also

Bryan Burch

Resurrecting this to finish this discussion--what about pushrod recommendations, if the ones in the kit aren't desirable?

67OAI

Anytime you change parts from the factory installed valve train, pushrod length becomes a new variable. Pushrod length affects rocker arm geometry which can affect valve stem wear over the long run. It is best to stay away from "kit" pushrods; purchase or make for yourself an adjustable length checking pushrod and use that result to purchase the correct length pushrod for your application. Use the search feature to find other discussions on this subject.
FYI, changing to 3/8" diameter pushrods is not necessary except for extreme use race only motors.