JPinAZ

I will try and give as much information as possible. This is going to be a mild build to replace a 260 in a 1977 442. First off my machine shop went to build the C heads. They found someone has put valve guides in at an angle making the heads junk. Complete aluminum heads will be used, I do not know the manufacturer. Originally 40 over Keith Black pistons were going to be used to achieve a 9:1 plus ratio. Because of using the aluminum heads more piston options became available and my machine shop chose Sealed Power L2323F probably because they would save me money spent on the heads. After researching those pistons here I am not sure they should be used. I am looking for a SOMEWHAT similar priced piston recommendations or advice on using the L2323F. By chance the machine shop was waiting on me to supply a flywheel for balancing and was just getting ready to machine the block for what I believe he said was "to match the short pistons". We will be using a performer intake with a 800cfm Q-jet, WZ exhaust. I do not know what cam he was thinking on using but it was a flat cam that he says the manufacturer cuts the lobe at a slight angle to rotate the lifter? Yes he is a good machinist and does work on lots of different engines, no he is not an Olds specialist. His goal is for it to not be lazy so at least 9:1 compression and to avoid detonation. Thanks in advance.

Fun71

Well, all flat tappet camshafts lobes are slightly angled so the lifters rotate in the bores. If this guy thinks the cam he is selecting is something special because of that, I would so some serious thinking.

70W-32

L2323F's are a forged copy of the 1970 factory cast high compression piston. Theyve been around for decades. Nothing wrong with them, but, by todays standards they are not the best. One concern is that the piston to wall clearence must be set correctly so the skirt doesnt scuff.
Depending on gas quality in your area(93 octane), you should be able to run 9.5 to easily with aluminum heads. Current available street type heads are either Edelbrock or Speed Master( a chinese copy of old Edelbrocks) If you go with the Speed Master, you should call Bernard Mondello (NOT Mondello Performance Products), and have him build a pair for you. If you buy straight from Speed Master, the valves and, springs they use are of low quality.

Fun71

91 with 10% ethanol is the norm at the pumps. You can find better near some of the race tracks.

JPinAZ

Believe me I am the inexperienced one not him. His engines have ended up in multiple cars that have ended up in Hemmings muscle machines but he would never tell you that. I have used him for 20 years on my general machine shop needs without a single problem. This is my first time having him build something for me/my customer but at any given time I have seen many big builds in his shop. I wish I had more info to share, but this all came up late this afternoon when I was dropping off the flywheel. I have been waiting eight weeks to get to this point and I am hoping not to loose momentum. I am hoping to have some direction Monday morning. Thanks for the reply but I really need more.

JPinAZ

91 is the best pump gas we get. Thanks for the information. Can you elaborate on the low quality?

cutlassefi

Fun71 is correct, ALL flat tappet cams have “angled” lobes. It’s a necessity for Lifter rotation. Maybe he’s trying to sound really educated, I don’t know but it’s common knowledge for any good automotive machinist.
The L2323 piston isn’t the best by today’s standards, that’s already been mentioned. If you’re staying at .040 over or even having to go .060 over the KB Icon series of pistons are a good choice.
I offer aluminum Head packages as well. As mentioned if you buy the Speedmasters off the shelf they’ll need to be gone thru, as any new head does. Finally, you can easily approach 10.0:1 with aluminum heads with no detonation issues IF IT’S TUNED CORRECTLY.
Note; And just because he’s done a bunch of restoration builds doesn’t mean he’s automatically qualified to do yours. Just sayin.

JPinAZ

Thanks for the replies. I am a great cook and can cook just about anything. I would not be able to cook anything without a recipe. I do not know the first thing about creating a recipe. I easily can replace an engine but I know very little about building one. I set out to have a 455 built that was better than stock but not a race car engine. I hired a machine shop to help me with the recipe. I came to this site to be able to get information for this build because it is an Oldsmobile build. Junk head cores muddied the water. They sourced an aluminum alternative that is available NOW that I am told will be junk. They sourced a camshaft after asking about what transmission and what gear ratios will be used. They mentioned that the cam has more angle built into the lobes to help ensure the cam survives, obviously I did not communicate that well. That resulted in backlash towards my machinist. They sourced a piston to meet my request and stay in budget. I am being told that these pistons are old and obsolete. I am told to question my machine shop and I will not do that anymore now than before I came here for help. I will do my best to use this site to create an adequate build that I set out for. Because it is a weekend and all of this arose yesterday I can not be certain, but I am confident my machinist planned on disassembling the heads to inspect them. I will make sure this happens and if anyone here would like to inform me of known issues that would be highly appreciated. Metal quality? Spring pressures? Guide tolerances? PM me if needed. This is what they do when they get something new in. I know for a fact that they have found problems with other new blocks and heads in the past. I will have him look into the KB icon pistons and have him contact Sealed Power about the piston to wall concerns. Again I/We would not have known about the L2323F issues without this site. We can get steak anywhere from Sizzler to Ruth Chris, I am looking for the best that fits the budget. If that means Speedmaster heads and sealed power pistons I am confident it will kick *** over a 260 for a 60 year old guy who will probably never see 100 mph. I know you all have heard many stories about machine shops screwing up Olds engines and I appreciate the concerns.

VORTECPRO

Who is the machine shop? Greg Gruelich?

BillK

I would be careful with this. If you cut too much off the deck it will affect intake manifold fitting. If you are going to buy pistons anyway I would find some that would do what you want without a lot of deck cutting.

All flat tappet cams have a taper (angle) on the lobe to help the lifter rotate. This is nothing special.

Fun71

I apologize if I offended you with my post. When I read that I, as just a gearhead and not a professional machinist/engine builder, knew that all camshafts are made that way and it sounded to me as if you were being given information insinuating this was some sort of special camshaft. I just wanted you to be aware of the facts and I may not have presented my thoughts in the best way. I apologize for that.

VORTECPRO

As you know Bill, some have more (taper) than others.

BillK

Absolutely but like Ken said I took the post as if his machinist was making this sound like it was something special.

JPinAZ

As I said "obviously I did not communicate that well."

I held my breath for a few hours. This is not my first rodeo. I have spent many years on V8Buick.com with my own build and I recently revived a customer's 1971 BBC corvette back on the road after 30 years of storage with the help of a corvette forum. Passion is best, We just need to take it with a grain of salt. Thank you for caring.

JPinAZ

My Machinist does not use the "end seals" on the intake. No new news to anyone. The amount needed to machine was noted .014 and right stuff sealant would be used making it irrelevant. Thank you.

VORTECPRO

Can I see a better picture of your block?

JPinAZ

Not until Monday what would you like to see?

VORTECPRO

Any pictures would be nice.

JPinAZ

Thanks for the input. We are moving forward with the L2323F pistons. Isky cam and bare aluminum heads to be built with quality parts. Builder is aware of the clearance issues with these pistons.

deadeyejedi

please post what your ptw clearance ends up at , im curious to know.