Ice

My 1st-ever car (delivered to my dad May 1986 from Collins Olds in Indy), 86 Olds 442 engine has about 330,000 miles on it. Everything's original on the car w/ exception to the stereo. I am going to get the car back into great condition. I know I want the car as close to original as possible, but I have one problem: I want better performance out of the car.

Answer me this: What would you do?

A) Rebuild the 307
B) Buy a new 307
C) Install a 350 ci or larger/different engine for better performance (keep original engine stored and if so, what engine would you put in)
D) Modify the 307 with performance enhancements

Thanks for any suggestions you guys would have.

85olds442

Keep the original olds 307, and build a nice olds 350 1972 or older if you can find one. Alot easier to make power and more Torque!!!!! You should be able to find a good oldsmobile 350 core in the scrap-yards. Try to find one in a 4 door car or wagon, they are usually in good shape and will not be as expensive. Look for heads 7a or 7 or 6 or 5. # 6 heads would be the best because they already have the big valves in them. Hope this helps.

Jamesbo

I am going to leave the performance enhancement options up to the experts, but I just wanted to say, Sweet ride

jerd_hambone

330k ? Holy moly haha

59-59-59

You should get Guiness Book of Words Records to your place.. 330k with that cheap plastic cam gear that didnt disintegrate? I'm impressed

Redog

Sadly the 307 after 1986 there really isn't too much you can do to up the performance. The 307 in the 442 was pretty much maxed out as it was, with the hotter cam plus mid way thru 1985 they changed the exhast manifolds and in 1984 they changed the heads. There is nothing aftermarket for the 307, but esp after 1985.

You could swap in a 350 or 403 and have the motor painted or powdercoated flat black. This way you'll have a bit of a performer and it will look stock. I wouldn't suggest a 455 thou, too easy to spot for an Olds guy and you're typical Chevy guy will look at an Olds motor and say it's a big block

citcapp

Your Dad gave you a sweet ride. Take care of it and it will take care of you. A built 350 will bolt in and give you enough power. Send pictures when you do your conversion

Ice

Thanks, I'd still like some more opinions. I can't do anything until Spring 2009.

Also, you can tell the paint's honeycombed pretty bad and the stripes aren't perfect anymore. The rust has to be taken care of. I'm proud of the interior with the exception of one thing and that's the center console. It's broke where the black button is to open and close it. My Uncle Mike has an '87 Cutlass Salon with similar mileage. He said everytime he had the instrument guages fixed, they always broke again. My RPM guage has never worked correctly since I can remember.

Questions:

1) Still interested in engine opinions, you guys know a lot more than me.

2) What places, hopefully near Indianapolis, can you depend on repainting the car and restriping it the way it is now? If not near Indy, then where? I wish I didn't have to do this, but it was my every day car forever and it's been through a lot.

3) For the center console, do I have to buy a whole new center piece?

4) Is it possible for the instrument guages to work correctly on these cars? If so, how do I do it.

citcapp

[quote=Ice;52101]Thanks, I'd still like some more opinions. I can't do anything until Spring 2009.


1) Still interested in engine opinions, you guys know a lot more than me.

If you have the money then go for a 455 least cost for the most horsepower 1969 to 1970 Toro motor is best or any 4 barrel motor of the same year will do. Try to find one in good condition to save cost on rebuilding. You will need a built turbo 350 or a turboo 400 to handle the increased hp and torque. Good luck and keep us posted on your decisions.

csstrux

A 350 OR A 403 would be a direct bolt in and either would make good streetable power with reasonable economy. the 403 has windowed mains and is a trickier and more delicate build for serious performance, but is a solid street performer. I am not sure, but think the computer will still work with the 350, so factory equipment should still function. Check that with ppl who actually deal with it on a regular basis and know. as far as bodywork goes the only thing I can suggest is to shop around. Stay away from national chains, talk to the smaller shops that have been around for a while. Get refferences and talk to the man who would actually be doing the work. The natoinal chains tend to do production/insurance type work and will not put the time into the car that I am guessing would satisfy you. Also you will be looking for someone who is going to take a serious look at the car, ask alot of questions, and likely want to do the job a pay as you go basis. This will not always happen, but would be desireable for both of you. He knows he will get paid, you know the work is being done to your satisfaction, and on a timely basis. Avoid shops with a ton of dusty projects sitting in corners, or out back. The shop should sort of resemble gearheads78's for a good professional job. In other words It will be notably free of clutter, dust, and will have a logical flow to it. Trust me if you spend some time in some of these places, you will just feel it when you walk in the door. Competence just seems to emenate from the place. I don't know how else to describe it. The console may be repairable, but would have to see it up close and personal to say for sure, likely just a mater of changing out some parts. I personally know less about electronics than I do about the technical stuff with mechanics, so will defer to those who will stear you in the right direction. Welcome, and nice ride. Good luck with it.

Olds64

Sweet ride!

You should build a 350 and drop it in. A 455 would be too big. I wouldn't mess with any of the emissions if you can avoid it.

Ice

Does the car need to be cut for a 403? My sister's husband says a 455 would fit with cutting, so that's out.

Drove the car out around the block today.

Eric Anderson

I think a nice 350 would give you all the power you want, keep in mind the trans swap for sure, and GREAT looking ride that car was well kept to have that kind of mileage and look that good, you scored BIG time

csstrux

A403 is dimensionally identical to the 307. It is the largest displacement small block olds engine the factory offered. A big block olds is essentially a small block with a taller deck. I have not done a g body big block conversion, but intend to in the future. I don't see why anything would need to be cut to do it, but like I said I havent done one yet. As an aside my dad is putting together a nasty 502 bbc powered 80 malibu and has not had to cut anything that I am aware of. A bbc is massively different than a sbc, though there is more aftermarket support, my point is you can do it. How far do you really want to go...and can you afford it?

Willidog

I have a rocket 350 that I will let go for 220 bucks plus shipping if you feel like paying the shipping from California. hehe It has the #5 heads and is ready to be built. Nice car by the way!

Redog

All Olds Small blocks are extrenally the same from 1968 to 1990

dan2286

Is it only the tach that does not work? If so, there is a tach filter that may not be working right.

Oldsguy

My opinion is put a 455 in it. Even a run-down 455 that blows oil will make that car feel completely different, although I would suggest a nice running one.

Ice

403 sounds good... I'm going to bring that up to the guy who's known the car its whole life (anytime I gotta problem with any car I call the guy, he has his own successful garage) and see what he thinks. He'll be doing a lot of the work, I don't know how to do everything.I don't know about that Rocket 350 in Cali. My Uncle lives in Long Beach, maybe he's interested. I'll ask him. He has an '87 Cutlass Salon with like 360+ horsepower I think. The tach has never worked right, always reads wrong. The charge guage sometimes reads and right now isn't reading anything. The sending unit was just fixed and the oil pressure guage works great. The gas guage, I don't trust it at all. It wasn't working when I last daily drove it. It would read what it wanted to read.

citcapp

The 455 has the same block dimensions as the small block. The only difference is the deck height. Best bang for the buck. Where are you located. Might be that someone on this site can give you a lead to and engine

Pat
57 Super88 with a 455
48 2dr fastback with a 455

Ice

Greencastle, Indiana. Halfway between Terre Haute & Indianapolis. I work in Indianapolis. My garage where the guy is going to do the work, most likely, is in Lizton just west of my hometown of Pittsboro.

Dapapadon

Hey Ice, I'm from that part of the country. Born and raised in Crawfordsville. Plan to retire back there, when the time comes. Anyway, I agree with the other guys on using an older motor. But since you don't plan to do the work I'd say stick with a 350 or 403. It might get costly with a 455 and someone else doing the work. Plus, if you have the room, I'd say keep the original motor. You never know what the future market might be for you car.

Your local Craigslist might be a good option to find a motor. My younger brother uses a co-op message board similar to craigslist, but I don't know the name of it. He says Craigslist is getting more popular there. You should be able to find a rebuildable motor around Indy or Terre Haute. And you could always post a Wanted ad when you decide on what you want.

Oh yeah, almost forgot, sharp car! And welcome to the board!

Don

Ice

Fired the 442 up a few times in the past couple weeks, shopping around central Indiana, Indianapolis-area for a motor to put in. Plan on keeping the original stored. Can't wait.

Ice

Guys I'm pumped. Before too long going to send the 442 to the shop. Hopefully just a month or two, crossing the fingers. Not worrying about exterior appearance this year, the goal is to get it running smoothly and functioning the way a car should.

joe_padavano

The 307, 350, and 403 are all externally identical and interchangeable. The 455 is about 1.5" taller but otherwise it nearly bolts in. Clearance between the RH valve cover and A/C box on the firewall is tight.

Ice

So maybe if I found a 455, Just would need a new hood? That could actually be fun couldn't it.

I would hang the original hood up in the garage.

My rims needed cleaned and trace amounts of rust, what's best way to clean those? Get the small amounts of rust off. Any special brand?

Ice

Double Post on accident

csstrux

I don't imagine a new hood would be necessary, unless you get wild with the intake.

Eric Anderson

Take a piece of aluminum foil, ball it up, use some soap and water scrub on the rust using the foil like a sponge, I know sounds wierd but it works, shines them right up. You might want to test it out on an inconspicuous spot to see if it works to your satisfaction.

Lady72nRob71

Welcome Ice!
Nice looking car for those many miles! After 330K, I can imagine the engine is due for a rebuild...
This page will help you a lot:
http://tlentz.oldsgmail.com/

The gauges have common ussues, especially the tach jumper - needs to be soldered to the V8 position. All contacts will need cleaning, too.

I would not give any effort to improve the performance of the 307. This page explains why. I heard that a 350 can be used withthe stock computer system, so that is an option.

Hope this helps!

Ice

My sister's husband has left his 1997 Camaro Z28 with LT1 engine sitting in my parent's driveway because there is problem with the frame of the car and it's a money pit for him. He said the only reason he's hung on to the car is the engine and transmission which he has wanted to put into a 1969 Camaro at some point, but probably is going to sell the car because my dad's not going to leave it there any longer and he has nowhere to put it. He offered to sell it to me for $1,000 and said the engine and transmission are worth at least that alone.

My question is this, could I buy that and then would that be an engine that might work my 86 442? The transmission is a 6-speed, I believe. I asked an Oldsmobile guy in town, who owns a 1971 Cutlass S he's restoring, how much an LT1 engine would go for and he said $2,000 and that the transmission in it a $1,000. So that's $3,000 for $1,000. He said it would bolt right in the 86 442 and that with a KN Air Filter would be around 325-330 hp. What do you guys know about it? Thanks.

jensenracing77

ICE, i live in brazil. just 15 miles from you. i may have an engine or two i could sell you. i have a very nice 350 with under 10,000 miles on it. it is a mild build up. i built it around 4 years ago. i would have to look up the miles on it and when i did it. maybe we could get together and talk oldsmobiles.

csstrux

I am thinking you could get the parts to "bolt it in", but the work would be extensive, I think. You would probably need a bunch of stuff off a montecarlo, and still would have to make modifications to the firewall to get the clutch master and pedal mounted. It would make for a hellova project, and I would love to see it done, even help out on it were you closer, but man. You have a nice original 442. They don't make them anymore. I would talk to jensen about the 350. Snarf that camaro and get a 3.8 v6 cutlass to hot rod and do it up to look like the 442. JMHO.

Warhead

Bolt in?
I seriously doubt that, but I would snag it for resale.
Read these
http://72.22.90.30/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14586
http://72.22.90.30/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19409
http://72.22.90.30/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=39647

Less than 1% of all #6 heads came with big valves, but any competent machinist can install them for you.
Nice 442!
Jim

mugzilla

Wrong forum for advice on installing {delete} engines into Oldsmobiles} ...

When I go to a show I won't take pics of a car with one of those engines into it unless it's in a {delete} ...

That said you should transfer everything including the sending unit/fuel pump/ baffle in the gas tank ...

Ice

I fired it up tonight and drove it around the neighborhood, checked out the engine, and man just the sound of that 307 is sweet music to me. Would the 455, 403 or 350 sound similar to the 307 if I do that, just a little louder? I've been thinking about that Mugzilla, that LT1 belongs in another Camaro or a non-442 at least.

daves62

wow
nice recovery ice this thread could have gotten ugly quick with the mention of that Chevy 350

Ice

I know, but it's just sitting there in my parent's driveway and I know it's gotta lotta power in it but I just don't think it'd be right... I want my 442 to drive like it did when I was in HS but better. That would be too totally different plus that engine belongs in a different Camaro, not this Olds.

67 Cutlass

Sweet project car!
I would go with a 350 Olds motor.
Good luck with your build.

Ice

Well, I just bought valve cover gasket last night and am going to be installing in the next week. Gettin started! Can't wait. Was going to do tonight, but am going over to Cincinnati for the weekend so will get to sometime next week. Any tips?