HonestDave

It appears the hot starting issue remains. We broached that subject last year, as I recall. When the car is hot, the starter barely turns. Have to let it sit a while.
Well, at least I know it's not a timing problem. It was doing the same thing with the timing at 1 or 2 degrees. I've got it up at 14 now, and still the same.
Some guys said they solved it with new starters, some with the smaller high output starters, and some with blankets.
The local Lordco wants $290 for a high output starter (), so I'm thinking maybe to try the blanket first. Bound to be cheaper.
Gotta work my way through this.

2blu442

Dave, years ago I had headers on a 1971 Cutlass with a 455. I was having troubles with the starter solenoid getting hot and not wanting to function. I put one of these kits on it and that took care of the problem. As long as your not trying to keep a stock appearance this might be worth trying... since its only $20 John

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g1750/overview/

BangScreech4-4-2

Yeah, I was gonna say ... headers or manifolds?

Grumbler

I avoid Lordco, they overcharge. Try Mopac, my Powermaster starter clutch was kicking out, they had a *white box* rebuild on the shelf for half price. In the car for four years now and working fine

HonestDave

Unfortunately it has headers. I'm sure correcting that with stock type manifolds, would be even more dear.

HonestDave

I'll keep that in mind, John. My starter seems to kick in, it just spins really slow. I'm thinking "heat soak". Might try the blanket first.

The stock appearance ship has long since sailed.

MDchanic

I would recommend basic troubleshooting on this one first:
Check voltage, both when it's cold and when the problem occurs, between every point along the way and the battery ground, while cranking - you want to find the place where the voltage drops, other than at the starter itself.
So, check the Pos. battery post, the Pos. battery cable clamp, the big starter terminal, the engine block, and the Neg. battery cable clamp.

If you find, for instance, that you've got 11.5V at the battery while cranking, but only 10V at the large starter post, then check the big wire from the starter to the battery.

- Eric

m371961

When you check voltage at starter check with meter grounded both at engine block and then at starter housing. Starter housing may not have a good ground.
The starter kicking in does not eliminate a bad solenoid contact between the main pos. wire and the starter windings.

HonestDave

I wonder if the length of starter wire could also be an issue. I had a new positive cable hanging on the shed wall, so I used it. It's about 2 feet longer than it needs to be, so I looped it around and used it. Perhaps I should just use one the correct length.

MDchanic

What size (gauge) is said starter cable?

The '66 CSM specifies 4ga, but 2ga is often better, especially for the longish runs used by Olds, and especially if things begin to get corroded after fifty or so years.

- Eric

HonestDave

I'm not sure, but it seems very thick. Another clue to this issue is the starter itself. When I first got the car, the starter made horrible noises. I pulled it out and it rattled like marbles in a tin box. I dropped it off at the shop to get the fellow to replace the drive. Usually charges me $20 or so. I picked it up, and he wanted $60 this time. Caught me by surprise. Would've (should've?) just bought a new starter. It might be worn out.
So, I keep trying to use this one since I have a small fortune into it.
Gotta head out now. Will pick this subject up again when I have access to the computer on Friday.

Ozzie

Advance Auto Parts sells 2 gauge cables on a display rack in their stores. They're Chinese; the quality & price seem O.K.

brown7373

Are the cables new or old? I have seen cables that look good, corrode inside, under the insulation and have too much resistance.

HonestDave

Here's the skinny. I just measured the cable from the battery to the binding post. It looks fairly new, and is 4 gauge at 4.5 feet long. Then there's still the run from the binding post to the starter. It's at least ten or fifteen years old, maybe more, and it came from a 330 2 barrel Olds I wrecked a while back.
Could either of these things cause the starter to turn over slowly when hot?

Next question.....could I just run one long cable from the battery to the starter, bypassing the binding post, and run a smaller gauge wire to feed the binding post for the rest of the electrical needs?

oldcutlass

You can. I've found over the years with stock starters, these things are caused by poor connections, or worn parts. They worked fine when new.

stan 65 cutlass

hey dave, my car has a jumperwire on the starter and a ford style solenoid up top beside the horn relay. works great, but not stock looking

IMG_3583.jpg

Ozzie

That is how my '76 Ford F-250 (460 engine) truck came from the factory; A Ford style solenoid on the inner fender and a Delco style solenoid on the starter motor. It seems like over doing it, but it has always worked well.

HonestDave

That's kind of how it was set up on the 62 Pontiac I just sold, except the solenoid was added to the firewall.
I was sort of thinking I could run a heavy wire from the battery to the starter, and it wouldn't engage until power hit the "S" terminal on the solenoid. I'd just run another wire to the horn relay binding post to feed the ignition switch, etc.

Have to ponder that a bit. I keep jumping from one car to another, and it tends to get confusing.