Kato

Looking for advice and value on a 1970 442 W-30 car I found.......

The car is still owned by the original owner who bought it off the showroom floor after returning from Vietnam in 1970. I found the car 6-7 years ago and stop 3-4-5 times a year to see if he'll sell it to me.
The guy is very nice - lives alone and likes talking with me, or at least I'm pretty sure he does since we'll talk for quite a while every time I stop.
Every time I stop though I get the same story that him and his brother are going to restore it although I know that isn't going to happen - so I just leave my name etc so he has all my info.

The car is gold ( Galleon Gold? ) has no vinyl top, 4-speed with a black bucket seat interior and no AC. It currently has an Olds 350 in it but the original 455 is in the corner on a engine stand wrapped in blankets. As far as rust it only has surface rust in spots and the frame from what I can tell is fine and the body has no dents or anything like that. Basically the car is stock with the engine out and needs restored.

Now that spring is coming around I'm sure I'll be stopping again and I want to make an offer since I've never thrown a number out.
I know the info I gave is limited but what is a reasonable price on something like that......any advice / tips on finally getting him to sell it?

I'm really wanting an Olds again and what better way than to try and buy a 70 W-30 car?

Thanks
Mike

gearheads78

All there with docs and original parts? $25K +/-

Kato

$25K as it sits......??
I know they are worth a pretty penny

PS - I saw your Avatar pic. I can remember watching your build thread on that car years back - not sure what site it was on but it was awesome !!!!

gearheads78

If it was on ebay bet it would bring every bit of that assuming a solid and complete car.

thanks on the 66' looking forward to building my 54' it will be better

stevengerard

I agree it could go for that but I'd start out way less than that. who knows how much work it needs and what parts are missing. Even with docs and correct parts I'd start off at 8-10k and wouldn't go much more than 18k

m455sx

if it is a real 442 w-30 pay what you can afford!!!! When will be the next time you will find another???????????

joe_padavano

This is a tough call. Throw out a lowball number and the owner might be insulted to the point that he won't talk to you any more. Inspect the car carefully for rust, particularly in the usual places like the pinchwelds around the windshield and back window. If possible, remove the stainless trim at the base of the windshield and bottom of the back window. This is where rust starts. Also check the bottom lip of the trunk lid and the leading edge of the metal frame on the underside of the hood in addition to the usual places on the fenders and quarters. Also check the bottom front corners of the doors on the inside, where the weatherstripping is.

A complete rust-free car is probably worth in the high teens. Any required metalwork and the price starts dropping quickly. Obviously ensure that all the expensive unique parts are there - aluminum intake, correct carb, correct air cleaner, correct distributor. MT non-A/C car will have manual disc brakes and the "real" 328 deg W-30 cam.

Kato

Thanks for the info / input guys..........spring is here ( almost ) and I'm suree I'll be stopping to talk to him here pretty soon.

My442

Sounds like a flipper post.

Kato

My442 - Sounds wrong.........been after this car for years now. If I get the chance to buy it it's mine - staying mine.

oldcutlass

Good luck, you will never ever aquire it if you don't ask.

Kato

Old - That's why I keep asking.......and asking.......and asking
I figure all he can say is no.

oldcutlass

However, there may come a day when he says yes.

Kato

I like that thinking !!!!!

dc2x4drvr

What Gearheads said..25k+/- show up with the benjamins, and beg...)

jensenracing77

That is the key. I have got more cars this way than any other. I was trying to get two 69s since 2006 and will now be able to bring them home. The guy got tired of me asking about them.

oldcutlass

I would show up with cash but would not throw it all on the table at once. Offer a little at a time. Who knows what it can be had for.

Boiler_81

Did you get anywhere on this car?

Kato

Unfortunately no but I keep stopping and asking.
Haven't see the guy over the winter since it's been colder than norrmal with a lot more snow than we usually get.
Like I normally do I'll start stopping by as soon as I see him out with the garage door up.........and the W-30 inside.

R-body_mopar

I don't know where your located, but it has been a tough winter here in NY, at least tougher than it has been in a number of years!

My guess is that this guy is getting old now (as I am), and not able to do a lot of restoration work, so might be getting ready to let go of his "pride and joy". Most of those cars were purchased by older people, not teenagers,........ who would have bought a Chevy!

I also had a 1970 W30 hardtop I bought used in 1973, and drove it for several years, but had to mothball it due to the lack of sufficient octane fuel....and I refused to pull the engine and taylor it to low octane unleaded gas; little did I know at the time that our fuel would deteriorate to the point that it has now , which makes it nearly impossible to drive such a vehicle daily without serious consequences. I spent a fortune on Sunoco Cam II racing fuel, and AvGas 100/110 leaded fuel, mixing it with the currently available fuel.....until I finally gave up! Sigh!

One question I would ask if you already have not, is just why he had to replace the original engine with a 350?......those engines, when properly cared for, were practically bulletproof, with the possible exception of the timing chain/gear set, which was good for about 100K miles.

Good luck on your quest, but you are going to have to do lots of research to properly update that 455 to TODAY"S fuels!

Kato

Thanks R-Body........
I'm in Ohio and the winter has been worse than normal - a ton more snow this year with a few ice storms thrown in. Yesterday it was 72.....today temp dropping and more snow - low of 14 tonight.

I'd put the owner in his late 60's - maybe early 70's
The story is that him and his cousin are going to restore it. Unfortunately I don't think there is any chance of that. I'd rather see him actually do that instead of letting the car sit like it is.
One thing I'm going to try and fuind out is if he has any kids, esp boys....maybe that's the plan. Even at that the number of younger guys that like old Muscle Cars is dwindling - quickly !!!
I've actually heard guys in their late 60's into 80's make comments at car shows about what is going to happen with their cars. Most would like to have their children end up with them and enjoy them but that link seems to be breaking with each generation ( Not mine for sure - or my sons ! )

In conversation a few years back he told me what was wrong with the 455 and it wasn't major - that is why he kept the engine.

Spring is right around the corner so I'll be stopping again to check in on the W-30 !!!
I need to sell another Olds I have first......1988 Cutlass Supreme Brougham Classic with 14K original miles. Actually debating on whether to list it on the site in hopes an Olds fan gets it.

Thanks for the advice / info

BlackGold

Tell him you want to help him put the car back in running order. You make a friend and get to play with a great car. He gets to rekindle his hobby. And when he's ready to pass it on, you know you'll be the first he thinks of. A lot of people are more interested in finding a good home for their car than in getting top dollar.

R-body_mopar

I agree with BlackGold; I owned two 1970 442's years ago, bought used, and used as daily drivers. My W-30 was my pride and joy, and kept it as long as I could. Useable high octane leaded fuel became the problem, and I had to let go.

It was much more important for it to go to a "good home", someone really interested in preserving/restoring the car than flipping it for more money. I had very little invested in the car, and enjoyed driving it for a few years, so it really owed me nothing, and the selling price was not of too much concern! As long as it was in the hands of someone that knew how rare it was....and wanted to restore it to it's former glory......AND could afford to do so....I never could, although I wanted to do so BADLY.......

halfmoontrail

I just put my flame suit on...

93 octane pump gas, even w/ethanol, should be fine for our older high compression engines. My '69 435-hp Vette likes it fine, and I'll use it in my '70 W30 and my '70 Buick Stage 1 as I get them running.

I'll pick up Sunoco race gas when it's convenient (only 1 station around) but most of the time it's pump premium.

Just my opinion, Steve

R-body_mopar

I'm not here to flame anybody, just to share my experiences as an Olds driver from "back in the day"! I caught a lot of flack for that, as I worked at a MOPAR dealership......lol!

Many members here were not even born when these cars were built, let alone drove them!

Sunoco or any other race gas has become totally unavailable in my area; I spent tons on Sunoco Cam 2 racing gas back then, as well as leaded AvGas 100/110, just to keep driving my car daily, but it got prohibitively expensive, and really didn't solve the problem.

Just a reminder, but Sunoco 260 pump gas (leaded) was advertised at 103.5 octane, and that is what I used.....but it was phased out gradually in the early-mid '70's, in favor of unleaded low octane fuel.

Today's fuel contains, who knows.....?...10 percent ethanol? This creates problems for many older cars, especially high compression engines.....but the real problem is that ethanol is very corrosive to fuel system metal and rubber parts, as it absorbs moisture from the atmosphere. To add to that, carbureted engines supply fuel at a fixed rate, and ethanol mixes require a richer mixture than pure gas; this is not a problem with modern fuel injected autos, as they are computer controlled to "fine tune" to the fuel being used.

Add to that the lack of lead additives that were there to not only boost octane, but to provide lubrication to valve seats, etc., and you are faced with a dilema.

I'm sure that modern engineering has solved some of these problems, with newer camshaft designs, etc., but the problem still exists with the fact that today's gas has a "shelf life" of weeks, not years, as in the past; and most of these cars are not driven daily, and the fuel does not store well....just ask any small engine repair shop owner.......business is BOOMING!

Again, I'm here to learn, and share my experience as a Mopar tech and Olds lover back in the day......NOT to argue with anybody at all! I hope I can help......!!!

steverw

First does he know and understand how rare his car is? If so he may think its worth Barrett Jackson crazy money. I know these cars bring big bucks, however he also needs to understand how much it cost to restore one. I would say be prepared to spend a sizeable amount of money to get it, but dont screw yourself in the process. Obviously you dont want to pi$$ him off by low balling him. You can always go up on your offer but you cant go down once you make an offer. I agree offering to help him restore it may be a good idea. He cant take it with him, someday it will have to go to someone. Tell him you want to be that someone.

jstrits

Is it wearing original paint? Even with small spots starting id say $25,000 would be light. Maybe he has docs and old photos to add. Granted for your sake the cheaper the better. But being a 4 speed it add alot more off the bat.

Kato

BlackGold - I never thought of that route. Next time I stop I'm going to offer to get the tires aired up, get it started and see if he'll let me roll it out in the driveway. If I get real lucky maybe he'll let me wash it up and clean the interior up. I've always said that a real good way to get to know a car is to wash and detail it - slowly learning as you spend hours working on it.

Steverw - I really don't think he has an idea what it's worth to be honest. He seems to just be a guy that bought it new and really isn't a collector - just the original owner more than anything.

jstrits - Original paint and interior. The orig 455 sitting on a stand in the corenr of his garage.

R-body_mopar

Kato.....JMO.....but get to know the guy, and find out what original documents he has, like window sticker, build sheet, invoice, etc.

My guess on the original engine is either a camshaft/lifter problem, or a timing chain....other than that, they were TOUGH!!! Be sure to check for NUMBERS, though, as it will add a LOT to the value of the car....

classicmuscle442

Seems the 445 problem was low oil on number seven rod bearing, too much oil up top, not upper problem. Both Olds block problems have been in lower end in my uses over 30 years.

bwichman

You didn't mention if the owner was married or not, always a good idea to have the wife know you are interested and maybe that will help motivate the owner. My first car was a gold 1970 with the wrong motor (350), but I was young and dumb at the time and just wanted a "hotrod", never saw it again after I got rid of it in 1977. Good luck.

Kato

bwich - The guy isn't married so I can't play that card. Just a single guy that drives a Ford Ranger pickup, probably has his house paid for with no major bills and doesn't need the cash..............and it attached to his car.
I'm due to stop again so we'll see how it goes. If I could sell my 88 Cutlass and have some cash in hand that is my next step.

tru-blue 442

Kato, you may detail the Cutlass
out real nice, drive it over and see
if he might swap with some $$ to boot
on your part. You may be able to walk
away with a sweet deal. Just a thought.

iam2fast4u86

Anything ever come of this?

v8al

Yeah, the car at least doubled (if not more) in value.

oldsmobiledave

BangScreech4-4-2

Yeah, but we're talking about a five year old thread.