70 442 w30's-Goodyear or Firestone tires?
September 1st, 2016, 10:36 PM
#81
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Elephant_Engine_Ernie just posted this photo in another thread (Feb 1970 - Chicago Auto Show). You'll have to zoom in some, but you can see it plain as day. See below:
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...autoshow40.jpg
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...autoshow40.jpg
September 2nd, 2016, 04:33 AM
#83
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September 2nd, 2016, 02:21 PM
#84
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Nobody's disputing (I hope) that some cars came the Firestones. The point is that some also came with Goodyears. And others Uniroyal.
It's normal for the factory to order a part from more than one supplier. This is true for almost every part on the car, not just tires. They'll order most of the parts from the supplier with the lowest price or best delivery or best quality, etc. But you always want to have options. If the best supplier stumbles, you want to have another that's already tooled up. You also need multiple suppliers so that you can make them bid competitively against each other.
It's normal for the factory to order a part from more than one supplier. This is true for almost every part on the car, not just tires. They'll order most of the parts from the supplier with the lowest price or best delivery or best quality, etc. But you always want to have options. If the best supplier stumbles, you want to have another that's already tooled up. You also need multiple suppliers so that you can make them bid competitively against each other.
September 2nd, 2016, 03:30 PM
#85
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Nobody's disputing (I hope) that some cars came the Firestones. The point is that some also came with Goodyears. And others Uniroyal.
It's normal for the factory to order a part from more than one supplier. This is true for almost every part on the car, not just tires. They'll order most of the parts from the supplier with the lowest price or best delivery or best quality, etc. But you always want to have options. If the best supplier stumbles, you want to have another that's already tooled up. You also need multiple suppliers so that you can make them bid competitively against each other.
It's normal for the factory to order a part from more than one supplier. This is true for almost every part on the car, not just tires. They'll order most of the parts from the supplier with the lowest price or best delivery or best quality, etc. But you always want to have options. If the best supplier stumbles, you want to have another that's already tooled up. You also need multiple suppliers so that you can make them bid competitively against each other.
I get what you are saying with suppliers. Makes sense to me.
September 2nd, 2016, 05:52 PM
#86
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That's great that there's a possibility the current reproduction Firestone Wide Ovals debuted late in the build of the 1970 model year. Fact remains that "Uniroyal tiger paws" were widely used from 1970 - 1972 with the Goodyears being the two most predominant RWL tires for 1970. What's a bummer is that the reproduction companies limit reproductions to just the Goodyears and FWO. I..... just as you, wish the Tiger Paws would make a reappearance as a new reproduction tire. I happen to like them more than the FWO. There is a factory press photo of a 1971 442 W-25 convertible, car is Blue with Firestone Wide ovals. Car has the front plate of OLDS and red fender wells with earliest picture Ive seen of a Firestone wide Oval. Car has to be from late in the summer of 1970. Its a press photo of the 1971 442 convertible. www.gmphotostore.com (go to Oldsmobile)
Last edited by Bens71442; September 2nd, 2016 at 05:57 PM.
September 2nd, 2016, 06:18 PM
#87
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Ok, I'm going to make this really simple. Show me the tires off all 3100 W-30s as they left the factory. 
We have no proof that a Firestone tire didn't leave the factory on even an October build. We have people saying their car had this or their car had that, but unless you see every single car, you can't rule anything out.
Yes, I agree about someone making Uniroyal repro tires. There is a demand for it. Wonder what the problem is.
We have no proof that a Firestone tire didn't leave the factory on even an October build. We have people saying their car had this or their car had that, but unless you see every single car, you can't rule anything out.Yes, I agree about someone making Uniroyal repro tires. There is a demand for it. Wonder what the problem is.
September 2nd, 2016, 09:03 PM
#88
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and some left with white wall tires on Super stock II. whichever, it slowly coming to light that Firestone Wide Ovals came late in the build in 1970 but not early. Cool to hash this out and see what other people have found. Lets hope someone starts making the Tiger Paws. It'd be nice to see a new tire for a change. White wall.jpg
September 3rd, 2016, 09:08 AM
#89
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and some left with white wall tires on Super stock II. whichever, it slowly coming to light that Firestone Wide Ovals came late in the build in 1970 but not early. Cool to hash this out and see what other people have found. Lets hope someone starts making the Tiger Paws. It'd be nice to see a new tire for a change. Attachment 140456
I'm not being argumentative, just trying to get the facts here. I have no proof that the October cars came with Firestones and you have no proof that they didn't. So remain open minded. It could have happened.
Before you said that April was the start for the Firestones and we now have proof of at least February with the Chicago Auto Show W-30. Then there's that black and white ad that I posted, which has a November 69 date. So that's quite a few months from April.
Like I said, we'd have to see every car as it left the factory to know. And that isn't happening...but to put it out there that these were only on the late cars, well with the pictures that have been recently posted, it is trending in the other direction.
September 3rd, 2016, 09:28 PM
#90
From what I've read, the preponderance of evidence offered here - coming from Classic Olds members personal recollections and experiences - points to Wide Ovals being offered later in the model year - whether it be Feb. or April 70. I had a set of Firestones ready to go on my 4th week Jan 70 W-30, but decided to get a set of Goodyears after studying what others had written here. It worked out OK because I used the Firestones on the 71 I just finished.
September 4th, 2016, 04:13 AM
#91
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From what I've read, the preponderance of evidence offered here - coming from Classic Olds members personal recollections and experiences - points to Wide Ovals being offered later in the model year - whether it be Feb. or April 70. I had a set of Firestones ready to go on my 4th week Jan 70 W-30, but decided to get a set of Goodyears after studying what others had written here. It worked out OK because I used the Firestones on the 71 I just finished.
In order to conclude that Firestones were or were not on these cars with somewhat reasonable certainty for any month prior to February (I'm assuming everyone is going to now take the Chicago Auto Show pic as truth) we would need the following valid sample sizes:
Monthly W-30 production / sample size needed at 90% confidence - error +/-5%
October 1969: 367 cars (we would need 156 original pics/original spares)
November 1969: 643 cars (we would need 190 original pics/original spares)
December 1969: 366 cars (we would need 156 original pics/original spares)
January 1970: 420 cars (we would need 165 original pics/original spares)
September 4th, 2016, 07:45 AM
#92
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My 10/69 W-30 had Good Years on it from the factory, and since the W-31's were also built in Lansing, it should also be considered on whether the Firestone tire was a supplier prior to January 1970. My 12/69 W-31 had Good Years, and my 4/1970 W31 had Firestones. Also, in determining factor here is the strike it self. As pre and post strike built cars do differ. I have yet to see a pre-strike car with Firestones.
Last edited by joesw31; September 4th, 2016 at 07:47 AM. Reason: .
September 4th, 2016, 07:54 AM
#93
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My 10/69 W-30 had Good Years on it from the factory, and since the W-31's were also built in Lansing, it should also be considered on whether the Firestone tire was a supplier prior to January 1970. My 12/69 W-31 had Good Years, and my 4/1970 W31 had Firestones. Also, in determining factor here is the strike it self. As pre and post strike built cars do differ. I have yet to see a pre-strike car with Firestones.
September 4th, 2016, 08:12 AM
#94
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Well, you have pre-strike cars, strike cars, and post strike cars. And this is not off topic as these events affected venders such as tires and fasteners, etc.
September 4th, 2016, 08:36 AM
#95
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Just meant me asking was probably off topic, but I'd like to hear more about it. Did they do anything else different? Like major parts such as the OAI or engine components?
September 6th, 2016, 03:53 PM
#98
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http://region1c.uaw.org/local598/ind...f-b22f3940f745
"September 24, 1969 - At 4:45 p.m., 15 minutes after the second shift had begun, Local 598 Fisher Body workers took on GM in the longest strike by the UAW in GM history.
1970's
February 6, 1970 - After 136 days on strike, Fisher Body workers ratified a new agreement."
"September 24, 1969 - At 4:45 p.m., 15 minutes after the second shift had begun, Local 598 Fisher Body workers took on GM in the longest strike by the UAW in GM history.
1970's
February 6, 1970 - After 136 days on strike, Fisher Body workers ratified a new agreement."
Last edited by orange442; September 6th, 2016 at 03:55 PM.
September 7th, 2016, 06:29 AM
#99
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I thought I did read about that on Newspapers.com, but I don't remember them mentioning it affected the Oldsmobile cars, I think they only mentioned Chevrolet. I'll have to go back and check.
September 7th, 2016, 02:35 PM
#101
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http://region1c.uaw.org/local598/ind...f-b22f3940f745
"September 24, 1969 - At 4:45 p.m., 15 minutes after the second shift had begun, Local 598 Fisher Body workers took on GM in the longest strike by the UAW in GM history.
1970's
February 6, 1970 - After 136 days on strike, Fisher Body workers ratified a new agreement."
"September 24, 1969 - At 4:45 p.m., 15 minutes after the second shift had begun, Local 598 Fisher Body workers took on GM in the longest strike by the UAW in GM history.
1970's
February 6, 1970 - After 136 days on strike, Fisher Body workers ratified a new agreement."
The strike I'm talking about started on September 10, 1970, lasted 67 days, and was at a national level, stopping work at most (all?) GM plants -- including Lansing.
December 2nd, 2016, 12:59 PM
#104
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Hi there......
Long time away from this topic.
Reading some of the back questions.
Car Show cars and literature were done as pre-production units. Do not use them as solid reference .
Goodyear did not go away in the 70 production year. Firestone may have shown up later, but Goodyear did not go away.
Yes, Uniroyal tires can be made, Coker has the agreements to have those made. It would be Coker's decision to make the molds and have the tires made. It would be their business decision to do it. Since they are putting out the Firestones, it may not be something they are looking to do. Also, Coker just came out with a radial version of the Wide Oval..... so that is money they are going to recoup before a new project is going to get a green light.
If you have any questions about Goodyears, PM me.
Rusty
Long time away from this topic.
Reading some of the back questions.
Car Show cars and literature were done as pre-production units. Do not use them as solid reference .
Goodyear did not go away in the 70 production year. Firestone may have shown up later, but Goodyear did not go away.
Yes, Uniroyal tires can be made, Coker has the agreements to have those made. It would be Coker's decision to make the molds and have the tires made. It would be their business decision to do it. Since they are putting out the Firestones, it may not be something they are looking to do. Also, Coker just came out with a radial version of the Wide Oval..... so that is money they are going to recoup before a new project is going to get a green light.
If you have any questions about Goodyears, PM me.
Rusty
December 7th, 2016, 01:56 PM
#105
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Just stumbled across this thread. I have a 47,000 mile '71 442 convertible (picture in my avatar) The original spare tire is in the trunk and has never been on the ground. It's G7-14 Uniroyal Tiger Paw. I find it interesting that it's white sidewall with argent painted SSII's. When I restore the car, I intend to break from the pack and put the whitewalls back on it. I think it's kind of a cool look.
December 8th, 2016, 08:19 AM
#107
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Thank you 70-442-W30 for the news print. It is very interesting, especially the production information and about GM increasing the line speed due to the new '70 models being smaller and needing less input at plant number two.
December 8th, 2016, 10:45 AM
#108
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I have repro Firestones on my car. They ride nice & hook better than the radials they replaced. They do not handle as well & tend to squeal on turns pretty easy. They do not grab seams in the road the way i remember they used to.
March 4th, 2017, 08:47 AM
#109
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FYI, the Goodyear Custom Tread "Steel Belted Radial" is now being reproduced in GR70-15 size. The tread pattern is the same for Goodyear, Firestone, and Uniroyal. This was the first TPC spec tire which GM dictated the tread pattern to the tire manufacturers.
March 14th, 2017, 01:42 PM
#111
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AWESOME!! it appears the "Goodrich PERFORMA GT" was manufactured by GOODYEAR at their Los Angeles plant. "A6MF L9DS"
can you get the dates off the wheels, by the valve stems?
FYI, your last pic is upside down & reads "L9DS"
can you get the dates off the wheels, by the valve stems?
FYI, your last pic is upside down & reads "L9DS"
March 14th, 2017, 01:59 PM
#112
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MAYHAP L month of 1969????
i can try to get dates> BUT I am NOT going to scrape off the factory finish to do so..
Here are best pics I have off the valve stem region now. The wheels are in storage....
untill snow is gone again
Cheers
December 21st, 2018, 05:52 PM
#118
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I purchased a new 1970 and my car came with G70-14, raised white letting, Goodyear Polyglas, including my spare in the trunk.
January 30th, 2019, 12:43 PM
#119
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Even thought it is not a 442, my Dad ordered a Cutlass W31 that came with Firestone Wide Ovals on it. He did not particularly like the tires and as they needed to be replaced, he picked up the GoodYear Polyglas as replacements. His car was delivered in April of 1970.
