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66 Cutlass...Has a 5V on Body Tag. I understand this is the Fisher Body assembly line code for "442 option". Now, 2L is 4-speed...this told the body builder to cut a big hole in the floor...5Y told the builder to install deluxe seat belt...so, what does 5V tell the builder to do???
66 Cutlass...Has a 5V on Body Tag. I understand this is the Fisher Body assembly line code for "442 option". Now, 2L is 4-speed...this told the body builder to cut a big hole in the floor...5Y told the builder to install deluxe seat belt...so, what does 5V tell the builder to do???
In 1966, Fisher Body had to supply the unique 442 front fenders that were punched for the (fake) vents. They also had to pierce the quarters and trunk lid for the 442 emblem instead of the Cutlass emblem.
In 1966, Fisher Body had to supply the unique 442 front fenders that were punched for the (fake) vents.
Not quite Joe .
Front fenders , and all "body" parts forward of the cowl were not Fisher Body's domain .
Front fenders came directly from the stamping plant to paint then to final assembly . They would not involve cowl tag codes .
You are correct though , that the 5V code would tell Fisher Body workers to install 442 emblems on the quarters and decklid .
Last edited by Charlie Jones; August 19th, 2018 at 09:15 PM.
Ya, I didnt think Fisher body had anything to do with front sheetmetal. Even fender painting was done at the assembly plant. I don't think fisher body installed emblems either. I could be wrong, but I thought they only pierced the holes for specific emblems. That being said, although the "cutlass" emblem required it's own distinctive piercings, it was my understanding that the F85 and 442 emblems both shared the same mounting hole positions. IF all this is so, then it's back to square one...why the need for the 5V?
I can speak for 67 Models, the emblem holes are for sure not the same as a Cutlass for the 442 badges. The rear finish panel too was different (paint) than the Cutlass.
[QUOTE=GTMeach;1118681] I don't think fisher body installed emblems either. I could be wrong, but I thought they only pierced the holes for specific emblems.
Fisher Body put everything on the bodies . Look at a picture of a "body drop " .
The bodies came from Fisher with all trim , glass , and upholstery The dash was installed and the steering column was also after 1959 or so .
There wasn't just one set of dies used when making sheetmetal parts . The first set "blanked" the piece of sheetmetal to size . The second set formed the basic shape of the part . Then the parts were put in other dies to form details around edges etc. The last set usually "punched" the holes necessary for emblems and other things . The quarter panels that were destined for 442's (and F-85's ?) would go to a different " punching die" than the Cutlass ones .
Last edited by Charlie Jones; August 20th, 2018 at 10:10 AM.
Charlie Jones, I don't believe that's a Fisher Body picture. Body drops I believe are final assembly line. I've looked through lots of factory assembly manuals and I've found emblem installation procedures in all of them. I don't follow Oldsmobile much as I've been a Pontiac lover for many years and as far as Pontiac, all emblems are assembly line installed. The main reason behind this thread is that I am trying to find a good way to verify California built 442's. if the 5V code is to alert Fisher Body that a body is designated to have the 442 option, what is it they do to the car that they don't do with non 5V bodies? I have what I believe is a real 66 F85 442 hardtop. But it was built in CA, has no warranty booklet and wrong engine. It has the 442 quarter and deck emblems and the quarter panels are original. so, basically it comes down to whether an F85 emblem will mount in the same holes as the 442 emblem.If it does not, then I can understand the 5V code.If it does, what the 5V for??
Not quite Joe .
Front fenders , and all "body" parts forward of the cowl were not Fisher Body's domain .
Front fenders came directly from the stamping plant to paint then to final assembly . They would not involve cowl tag codes .
You are correct though , that the 5V code would tell Fisher Body workers to install 442 emblems on the quarters and decklid .
True and that's why the front end sheetmetal paint didn't match the rest of the car.
Charlie Jones, I don't believe that's a Fisher Body picture. Body drops I believe are final assembly line. I've looked through lots of factory assembly manuals and I've found emblem installation procedures in all of them. I don't follow Oldsmobile much as I've been a Pontiac lover for many years and as far as Pontiac, all emblems are assembly line installed. The main reason behind this thread is that I am trying to find a good way to verify California built 442's. if the 5V code is to alert Fisher Body that a body is designated to have the 442 option, what is it they do to the car that they don't do with non 5V bodies? I have what I believe is a real 66 F85 442 hardtop. But it was built in CA, has no warranty booklet and wrong engine. It has the 442 quarter and deck emblems and the quarter panels are original. so, basically it comes down to whether an F85 emblem will mount in the same holes as the 442 emblem.If it does not, then I can understand the 5V code.If it does, what the 5V for??
That isn't a Fisher Body picture . That is a picture from Lansing final assembly . The body being dropped on the chassis has just come from Fisher Body .
In Lansing , the Fisher Body plant was 3 miles from the final assembly building . The finished bodies were trucked there .
Some plants had the Fisher operation adjacent to the assembly plant . Others may have had it incorporated . As noted .
Today , the operation is seamless , and there is no Fisher Body anymore .
Nobody yet has found a good way to "authenticate" Fremont assembled 442's .
One possible way is to remove the emblems and examine the holes closely to see if they look as if they were punched , rather than drilled . Also examine the backside of the panels to see if any "Cutlass" emblem holes may have been filled or welded shut .
Charlie Jones, I don't believe that's a Fisher Body picture. Body drops I believe are final assembly line. I've looked through lots of factory assembly manuals and I've found emblem installation procedures in all of them. I don't follow Oldsmobile much as I've been a Pontiac lover for many years and as far as Pontiac, all emblems are assembly line installed. The main reason behind this thread is that I am trying to find a good way to verify California built 442's. if the 5V code is to alert Fisher Body that a body is designated to have the 442 option, what is it they do to the car that they don't do with non 5V bodies? I have what I believe is a real 66 F85 442 hardtop. But it was built in CA, has no warranty booklet and wrong engine. It has the 442 quarter and deck emblems and the quarter panels are original. so, basically it comes down to whether an F85 emblem will mount in the same holes as the 442 emblem.If it does not, then I can understand the 5V code.If it does, what the 5V for??
The 442 deck lid molding, & tail light assy. were also installed @ Fisher Body. Everything 442 done @ Fisher Body is the reason for the 5V.
The 442 deck lid molding, & tail light assy. were also installed @ Fisher Body. Everything 442 done @ Fisher Body is the reason for the 5V.
that makes total sense. so, I guess I'll never be able to truly identify my car. I just wanted to know for my own personal reasons, not to try to document the car in any way. Its an odd car that if it could speak, Im sure it would have some wild stories to tell. Thanks for all your input
that makes total sense. so, I guess I'll never be able to truly identify my car. I just wanted to know for my own personal reasons, not to try to document the car in any way. Its an odd car that if it could speak, Im sure it would have some wild stories to tell. Thanks for all your input
It's very unfortunate that Fremont built 442's can't be documented with without wall paper. It's almost like every Fremont built 442 without docs is considered a fraud. If you like your car,who cares,enjoy it.
I have a lot to learn about the assembly line, but FYI, my 64 has factory emblem nut sealer with an upside down run inside the front fender. Original car sat since 82. Fender never off the car.
I have a lot to learn about the assembly line, but FYI, my 64 has factory emblem nut sealer with an upside down run inside the front fender. Original car sat since 82. Fender never off the car.
Look around that car and you will find a lot more "runs" . Most chassis parts were dipped in cheap black paint .
Most of the body parts , including the body shell itself , were dipped in primer . They were then " sanded where it shows " and then went to the spray booths for a topcoat .
The inspectors were only concerned about a run if it showed from the outside or interior of the car .
I've been a Honda automobile technician since 1988. It's better now, but for years, when new cars arrived, I would find loose screws laying around the interior, paint runs in non-obvious areas, bad seam sealing jobs, undersides with barely any primer and no protection, even assembly line tools in the car. I found a really cool body panel gap checker and lots of things I have no idea what they were. So, it's not just Olds, or even GM, it's all cars that were mass produced
I've been a Honda automobile technician since 1988. It's better now, but for years, when new cars arrived, I would find loose screws laying around the interior, paint runs in non-obvious areas, bad seam sealing jobs, undersides with barely any primer and no protection, even assembly line tools in the car. I found a really cool body panel gap checker and lots of things I have no idea what they were. So, it's not just Olds, or even GM, it's all cars that were mass produced
That's why most restorations are over restorations. The Bloomington Gold Vette guys are the ones who do it like they were built.
tags were installed right at the end of the weld line,before solder booth. had a paper sheet hanging on the front of the body. fisher installed everything from the firewall back,emblems,wipers,wiper motors etc. no frt end or engine harness tho.
I just spent today getting a trim line ready for next year's car in my company. The whole damn thing is computerized, to an extent, and if an interface box that gets new data gets forgotten about, the whole damn line locks up. "Check everything with the trial" they say; yeah, I got a 1 vehicle trial a few months ago, that helps. Ugh! No loose screws in the cars here, just in the engineers.
I believe in over restoration in terms of paint coverage and proper assembly. That's about it.
Fremont 442s need protectoplates, window stickers, or a build sheet or broadcast card if Fremont did those. Generally, a non-restored Fremont 442 with all the right parts can be considered the real thing. A restored Fremont 442 with wrong details is questionable.
Get to know the year you own, and you'll be able to spot a fraud/something wrong a mile away.
Typically a plant has a body number that gets stamped somewhere. My company does it on the top of the core support since that's welded in. Not so on these old ones. I wonder if there's a body number stamped someplace. Typically, you put a tag on at the beginning of assembly, not the end. I wonder why Fisher put them on at the end. Maybe if they ruined the body it wasn't a logged unit yet before the cowl tag and could be built again later.
August 19th, 2018, 06:47 PM
